Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[kathy49]

7 minutes ago, flowery said:

All this talk of whiskey and more video entertainment is heartwarming but what the passengers and crew need now are strong advocates. I'd like to see Carnival announce that they've hired several independent MD infectious disease specialists (not on the company payroll) and will follow their recommendations. If their recommendations run counter to what Japan will allow, then Carnival Corp should lobby the Japanese govt hard!

I am tending to agree with everything you say....it is a very tricky situation....Japan is having to take the confirmed cases but is going to do all possible to keep this ship self contained and avoid sending anyone on there that is absolutely not essential.   They must have a plan for their own residents (a high % of the passengers) for when they get off...why not get them off now and start another quarantine?

[npcl]

4 hours ago, kathy49 said:

Apparently on David's latest video he was not aware that there are now  6 more cases. confirmed and 100 not "feeling well".  This is being reported by most international world news sources.  This strategy seems to be not to test everyone but only those not feeling well and the more they test the more they find. I was a bit optimistic this morning as I watched David's video as he was enjoying the bottle of whiskey they finally brought him but  I think his next video may be more sobering.  There needs to be a demand by governments of the various passengers to test all of them and get those people off the ship that are testing positive.   I am sure they are trying their best to deal with this...the World Dream in HK will be taking people off today meantime this situation just gets worse and worse. People are still being diagnosed 1/2 way through the quarantine....sure hope the respective governments at the end of this takes them not by commercial flights but charter designed to handle more potential cases and quarantine upon arrival in the country they travel to.

the situation is as expected.  New cases can be expected until they have been isolated for 14 days.  That is why the quarantine is as long as it is. They do not represent people infected after the quarantine started. Just ones who were infected prior, and had symptoms manifest afterwards. Very expected for a disease with a 14 day incubation period.

 

 

[Outerdog]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

the situation is as expected.  New cases can be expected until they have been isolated for 14 days.  That is why the quarantine is as long as it is. They do not represent people infected after the quarantine started. Just ones who were infected prior, and had symptoms manifest afterwards. Very expected for a disease with a 14 day incubation period.

 

 

 

I don't know about that. Your statement relies on the quarantine policy being adhered to 100%.

 

Some of the pictures and video shown recently clearly indicate violations of (what are believed to be) the quarantine guidelines. Shown are people wearing no masks, no gloves, and gathering in close proximity to one another.

 

 

[npcl]

8 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

The WHO and the JMH are pretty much in alignment - neither of which are on the "company payroll" -- what would you have done differently? Would you like Carnival to work towards expediting the lifting of the quarantine contrary to the direction of the "MD infections disease specialists" who are already advising the most prudent path forward? Do you want to rush these people off the ship as new cases are still being discovered?

not sure WHO and JMHW are totally in agreement since there have been conflicting statements. However MHW is in charge (WHO has no real authority, all they can do is advise and assist).

For anyone familiar with Japanese culture the Minister of Health would not have said that the quarantine would end on the 19th if he was not pretty certain that it would. Too much lose of face if most of passengers are not able to leave then.

[npcl]

3 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

I don't know about that. Your statement relies on the quarantine policy being adhered to 100%.

 

Some of the pictures and video shown recently clearly indicate violations of (what are believed to be) the quarantine guidelines. Shown are people wearing no masks, no gloves, and gathering in close proximity to one another.

 

 

the pictures shown earlier in stream were not passengers. Since the ship is still operating crew must continue to run the ship. I expect that the number of crew out and about to also be minimized. Under current practices described by those on board the crew is not in contact with passengers.

 

Thus should have no impact.

[Outerdog]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

the pictures shown earlier in stream were not passengers.

 

Take another look.

 

pic.twitter.com/mgqaxQpRG7

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Outerdog

[bluesea321]

19 hours ago, Outerdog said:

The. Air. Does. Not. Recirculate. In. The. Cabins. With. The. Rest. Of. The. Ship.

 

It does recirculate on newer Royal Caribbean ships and I suspect now the same on CCL. See my Post 826 here:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2730230-princess-ships-corona-virus/page/34/#comments

 

“More energy is more fuel, and more fuel is a higher cost for the company... So we’re trying to minimize energy cost in any way we can without jeopardizing the comfort of our passengers. One way is recirculating the air inside the ship instead of venting it outside, as had been the practice. Now warm air is pulled out of a room and sent to a recovery wheel – also called a rotary heat exchanger – where heat is caught and the now cooler air is returned to the fresh air intake. By doing so we’ve reduced our cooling by a quarter."

https://www.rclcorporate.com/a-chill-in-the-air/

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, voljeep said:

any reports of any outbursts or violence by either the crew or passengers ? gotta be getting close to a 'breaking point' for some people knowing they have at least 10 more days of this confinement ...

Anyone losing there temper like that despite the situation is probably aware of the fact that they would almost certainly be subject to a "carnival wide ban" which is ban off every line in the group (princess, carnival, cunard, p&o, holland america,costa, aida and seabourn) not just princess.

[ed01106]

5 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

It does recirculate on newer Royal Caribbean ships and I suspect now the same on CCL. See my Post 826 here:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2730230-princess-ships-corona-virus/page/34/#comments

 

“More energy is more fuel, and more fuel is a higher cost for the company... So we’re trying to minimize energy cost in any way we can without jeopardizing the comfort of our passengers. One way is recirculating the air inside the ship instead of venting it outside, as had been the practice. Now warm air is pulled out of a room and sent to a recovery wheel – also called a rotary heat exchanger – where heat is caught and the now cooler air is returned to the fresh air intake. By doing so we’ve reduced our cooling by a quarter."

https://www.rclcorporate.com/a-chill-in-the-air/

Profits over health.  And no this isn't hindsight, airborne disease preexists this problem.

[ed01106]

1 minute ago, ace2542 said:

Anyone losing there temper like that despite the situation is probably aware of the fact that they would almost certainly be subject to a "carnival wide ban" which is ban off every line in the group (princess, carnival, cunard, p&o, holland america,costa, aida and seabourn) not just princess.

I suspect many going through this situation will have a lifetime self imposed ban on even thinking about taking another cruise on any line

[ace2542]

3 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

I suspect many going through this situation will have a lifetime self imposed ban on even thinking about taking another cruise on any line

I don't think they will this would have been hard to predict a month before sailing. Perhaps the situation could have been handled better by princess at the boarding stage perhaps the infection or suspected infection could have been detected at the boarding stage. But they are the mercy of the Japanese government. There is only so much princess can do to be fair.

[voljeep]

have the linens/towels been replaced since the confinement ?

 

what is the current alcohol delivery process ?

[mayleeman]

@bluesea321 Your article is from 2016 and discusses energy savings from recirculating cabin air so it can be cooled more efficiently than pulliing in outside. I don't think that is an issue in Yokohama with temps in the 30s to 50s.

[bluesea321]

31 minutes ago, npcl said:

They do not represent people infected after the quarantine started. Just ones who were infected prior, and had symptoms manifest afterwards.

 

Hmm... there is no way to know that. You are making the assumption that the quarantine has been 100% effective but even in hospitals that is not the case.

 

"One patient, admitted to a hospital in Wuhan, China, infected at least 10 health care workers and four other patients with the coronavirus... The case was just one disturbing detail in a new report on 138 patients in Wuhan that helps explain how the illness progresses and how it spreads."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/health/coronavirus-patients.html

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/08/health/coronavirus-hospital-infections-frieden/index.html

[Outerdog]

4 minutes ago, voljeep said:

what is the current alcohol delivery process ?

 

Get a popular YouTube channel started, and Jan Swartz will have a bottle of whisky sent to your suite.

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

@bluesea321 Your article is from 2016 and discusses energy savings from recirculating cabin air so it can be cooled more efficiently than pulliing in outside. I don't think that is an issue in Yokohama with temps in the 30s to 50s.

 

You missed the point. Yes the RCCL article was from 2016 but it discusses how RCCL is outfitting their ships to save energy with new smart HVAC systems. This is a forward looking move.

 

The outside temp is not relevant. It is the same HVAC system, they do not retrofit the ship from port to port and it either recirculates or not. The amount of cooling or heating varies depending on ambient conditions but the system is obviously the same. Savings are also generated by recirculating heated air and not having to heat it as much when the outside temp is low. Your home system does much the same, otherwise your gas or electric bill would be much higher. 

 

[NorthwestCruiser]

The ship is a miniature version of the problem that the entire world is going to be facing pretty soon.   There is an interesting article on pandemic communication (written during the "swine flu" pandemic) that makes the point that we can really only mitigate a flu like this, not contain it -- and that promises to contain the epidemic simply cause people to distrust the experts when those promises are not kept.  (Containment vs mitigation)   It is pretty clear that in China and on the ship containment has failed, and it is pretty clear from our understanding so far of how the virus is transmitted that containment will fail.    That is a bitter pill to swallow but it is better to come to terms with it now rather than panicking later and distrusting everything.    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

 

I don't have any scientific expertise to offer on what should be done with the passengers, but we can not lose our humanity when dealing with it.   Locking people into tiny cabins for weeks is not humane, nor is what is going on in China.   If it is not going to be effective to our goal (a clean ship and passengers disembarking), then why do it?   Unfortunately sometimes humans think that the harshest method is the most effective.   There are social distancing protocols that the rest of us in the world are going to be learning soon, implement those best practices with the understanding that all you can do is slow down the spread, not eliminate it.   Have a plan for dealing with sick people, most of whom will not require any extremely special expertise to deal with.  I would resume services on the ship except the obvious ones like crowded nightclubs; cost be dammned to the company.     

 

  If we come to terms with the bitter pill, and also realize that the vast majority of people infected will survive then perhaps we can let our humanity inform our actions.  

[bluesea321]

26 minutes ago, voljeep said:

what is the current alcohol delivery process ?

 

21 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

Get a popular YouTube channel started, and Jan Swartz will have a bottle of whisky sent to your suite.

 

@Outerdog   I agree with you. I am glad for David, a good guy going through a very difficult time...  but am I the only one who finds Jan Swartz move inappropriate?  How about sending a bottle of "whatever" to every cabin.  That I would take as a good move on her part.

[Cruise Raider]

19 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Tipping doesn't matter. The crew have a guaranteed income, even if the stewards and waiters have a major part of that from the international tips pool. That part of their income is not from tips from their particular ship. There will be a slight reduction of money going into the tips pool, but that is spread over the whole Princess fleet. The only loss is the extra tips that people usually give.

 

This is news to me.  Is it because it was a cruise in Asia?  

And, since this is no longer a cruise but now a floating quarantined hotel in which no passenger payment is involved, are they still getting those gratuities? 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Cruise Raider

[NorthwestCruiser]

By the way, if anybody is freaking out about this who has not gotten their flu or Pneunomia shot (if applicable), please put down the computer and get one now.   Just do it, don't argue.

[cruisequeen4ever]

How sweet of Jan to send the whiskey! I am so enjoying David Abel’s Updates. 

[dickinson]

David Abel is a self confessed Celebrity cruiser.  He says he loves Celebrity.  I believe this is his first Princess cruise.  He is pretty much recording what is going on and is not bashing Princess.  He is not complaining.  His videos have gone viral and because he is saying good things about Princess to millions of people Jan Swartz heard about him and did something nice for him personally.  Princess as a corporation is doing what they can for people, such as getting more tv channels, counselors, letting passengers outside for a short time, etc.  There are no previous guidelines on what to do in a situation like this.  I am sure in hindsight there might be some things done differently but that is not unusual.

[Cruise Raider]

1 minute ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

By the way, if anybody is freaking out about this who has not gotten their flu or Pneunomia shot (if applicable), please put down the computer and get one now.   Just do it, don't argue.

 

I was just listening to a report from a doctor on a local news station and her advice, 'get your flu shot'!  This was in relation to the coronavirus discussion and she believed that it would be much harder for one to recover if you contracted both illnesses at once.  

[kent9xxx1]

15 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Yes. There have been several (in my opinion ill-informed) posts criticizing Princess and blaming them for the situation. There have also been several comments that those on the ship will soon all have the virus. These people should read the post from Chengkp75, a ship's engineer who  explained how the ventilation system works.

 

I think your opinion and Chengkp75's opinions are optimistic if not naive.  You assumed standard ventilation system when you don't know what the ventilation system of this particular ship.  You assumed a lot in unprecedented situation.  

The point is the Japanese government should have done better.  Soon, a lot more of them will get it.  

[ace2542]

34 minutes ago, dickinson said:

David Abel is a self confessed Celebrity cruiser.  He says he loves Celebrity.  I believe this is his first Princess cruise.  He is pretty much recording what is going on and is not bashing Princess.  He is not complaining.  His videos have gone viral and because he is saying good things about Princess to millions of people Jan Swartz heard about him and did something nice for him personally.  Princess as a corporation is doing what they can for people, such as getting more tv channels, counselors, letting passengers outside for a short time, etc.  There are no previous guidelines on what to do in a situation like this.  I am sure in hindsight there might be some things done differently but that is not unusual.

And I bet his next cruise will be for free or for a pretty decent rate. Or be advanced up the loyalty card order.. He could be pushing for a brand ambassador gig perhaps. Not soft is he?. He could either have been complaining as a first timer or played it this way to his advantage in the long run.