Possible Bankruptcy??

[oskidunker]

Then dispute it before the60 days are up. 

[resistk]

1 hour ago, billco said:

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory, but I don’t buy it.

 

Check the other boards; other lines are also either going quiet or stretching out the estimated payment window past the 60 day widow.  The apologists have various theories how this is normal but I think the intent is to string it out due to the cash flow situation. 

[billco]

8 minutes ago, resistk said:

 

Check the other boards; other lines are also either going quiet or stretching out the estimated payment window past the 60 day widow.  The apologists have various theories how this is normal but I think the intent is to string it out due to the cash flow situation. 

Ok. So what. Lots of people are employing strategies these days to delay paying their bills.

Edited March 31, 2020 by billco

[JennAngel9]

6 hours ago, as400guy said:

May I jump in here?

 

The credit card companies (at least Chase, so I assume others) allow 60 days after the date of the statement showing the charge for disputes of that charge to be made (60 days after the statement date showing the charge).

 

Call me crazy, but it appears the deafening silence of the cruise lines in response to our refund requests could be calculated, at least in part, to outlast the credit card dispute window.  

 

Whatcha' think fellow cruisers?   Are we being used for interest free loan purposes?  🙂

 

Hmmm.  We booked our cruise about 67 days ago, but the statement date was probably at least a couple weeks later.  Can I ask them to refund our money even if the sailing isn't technically cancelled (but we have high risk groups in our reservation who will almost certainly not be allowed to cruise or fly no matter how great the virus is looking in 2 months) yet?

[PaperSniper4]

On 3/21/2020 at 11:07 PM, gvre said:

No Way..this whole thing will blow thru in a couple of weeks.

Believe!

 

Ah, the optimism of youth!😉

 

I hope you are correct.😎

[ghstudio]

Carnival is raising $6 billion with a combination of privately placed bonds and a stock offering.  Assuming that financing is successful, one would assume that it's enough to carry them through this mess.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carnivals-stock-turns-lower-after-175-billion-public-stock-offering-private-debt-sale-2020-03-31?mod=home-page

Edited March 31, 2020 by ghstudio

[John99]

Thanks ghstudio for the info. 

I’d like to expand on your comments.  Looks like CCL really needs additional funds to operate its business and improve its liquidity.

 

The following information (below) comes from various news services – Dow Jones, Reuters, etc.

Tuesday 3/31/20 -- Carnival said it commenced a public offering of $1.25 billion worth of its common stock. This could represent about 97.66 million shares, or about 18.5% of the shares outstanding. Also, CCL said it commenced private offerings of $3 billion shares of senior secured notes due 2023 and $1.75 billion in senior convertible notes due 2023.  Earlier, CCL said it was suspended its dividend and share repurchases, cutting expenses lying off crews to improve liquidity. 

$1.25 + $3.0 + 1.75 = $6.0 billion.  That’s a lot of money.  This is on top of a $3 billion revolving credit agreement which it’s already started to drawn down on.  "We cannot predict when any of our ships will begin to sail again," Carnival said.

 

It should be noted Royal Caribbean disclosed on March 23 that it had added a new $2.2 billion line of credit.  Maybe RCL is doing better than CCL??

 

The last two days crews from cruise ships are boarding chartered busses to Miami International to catch chartered flights (non US carrier companies) to Asia.  Crews were given the OK to disembark after blood test showed they were all clear or negative.  They did not pass through the terminal and taken direct to the planes and boarded via staircase.

In a separate filing Tuesday, the CCL said deliveries of new ships are likely to be delayed by the pandemic.  Also, CCL said it has received and expects to continue to receive lawsuits from passengers aboard the Grand Princess voyage in February and may receive additional lawsuits stemming from COVID-19.

John

[jimmieg]

3 hours ago, John99 said:

  "We cannot predict when any of our ships will begin to sail again," Carnival said.

This is my key takeaway. This is truth, regardless of rolling pause updates.

If they are successful in raising $6bn, and then take a conservative approach to deploying itineraries as ports re-open, cut expenses (keep some ships mothballed for a time), and engender passenger confidence in speeding up refunds, I think there is hope.  As an avid cruisers, I am sadly losing 49 days at sea this year, but have an additional 64 days already booked so far in 2021-2022 and looking to add another 10-20 days as business resumes.

Hope is not a not a business plan.  Trusting there are strategy sessions taking place at the highest levels of CCL with all its brands.

Edited March 31, 2020 by jimmieg

[weberman]

I cancelled a cruise that did not sail till late this year. Princess said they would refund my deposit money of$800 in 5 to 7 business days. It is now about a month and no refund. I get the run around when I call Princess. So I just got off the phone with AMEX and the charge was reversed. Princess is still booking cruises, so I guess they still have some cash flow.

[John99]

Weberman -- sorry to hear about your refund situation.  Was that for your transatlantic cruise in September?  At least AMEX came through for you. 

 

Princess Issued an Updated on Refunds regarding Processing Time -- March 20, 2020

Given the volume of refund requests and the care being dedicated to ensure each guest’s request is processed accurately and in a coordinated manner, please allow for approximately 60 days for refunds to be processed. All refunds will be processed in due course, but delays should be anticipated. Please allow sufficient time for us to manage this process.

 

Well for us retirees this was a big year with three cruises planned as part of our 50 years of marriage.   Two were cancelled (about 30/40 days ago in February) with one still on tap for October.  It took about 25 days to receive a combo of FCC and a credit to our Visa card.  I just we were lucky.

[DaKa2002]

5 minutes ago, John99 said:

Weberman -- sorry to hear about your refund situation.  Was that for your transatlantic cruise in September?  At least AMEX came through for you. 

 

 

Princess Issued an Updated on Refunds regarding Processing Time -- March 20, 2020

 

Given the volume of refund requests and the care being dedicated to ensure each guest’s request is processed accurately and in a coordinated manner, please allow for approximately 60 days for refunds to be processed. All refunds will be processed in due course, but delays should be anticipated. Please allow sufficient time for us to manage this process.

 

 

 

Well for us retirees this was a big year with three cruises planned as part of our 50 years of marriage.   Two were cancelled (about 30/40 days ago in February) with one still on tap for October.  It took about 25 days to receive a combo of FCC and a credit to our Visa card.  I just we were lucky.

Wishing you a special and wonderful 50th anniversary year! And many more together...

 

This year is our 50th also, and we had made big plans too. The first three have been cancelled, an Alaskan cruise in July and two road trips (May-June and August- September).  At the moment we are hanging on to hopes for the Octoberfest river cruise.  We are thinking about celebrating 2020 in 2021 (kinda like the Olympics!) 

[weberman]

5 hours ago, DaKa2002 said:

Wishing you a special and wonderful 50th anniversary year! And many more together...

 

This year is our 50th also, and we had made big plans too. The first three have been cancelled, an Alaskan cruise in July and two road trips (May-June and August- September).  At the moment we are hanging on to hopes for the Octoberfest river cruise.  We are thinking about celebrating 2020 in 2021 (kinda like the Olympics!) 

 

Congrats on your 50th. This was our 55th anniversary celebration. And, yes it was the transatlantic. IMHO, I don't think the cruise will ever happen. The Sky Princess is still over here docked, I think in the Bahamas. It seems strange that Princess can take our deposits instantaneously, but want up to 60 days to refund it. Maybe they are having cash flow problems after all.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, weberman said:

 

 It seems strange that Princess can take our deposits instantaneously, but want up to 60 days to refund it. Maybe they are having cash flow problems after all.

 

We all know that a keystroke on a computer can cause a refund to be made just as a different stroke can cause a charge to be processed.

 

But, based on past experience, the same person who can instantly cause a charge to be made cannot do the same with a refund.

 

I think refunds have to be manually processed internally to Princess before they are approved and that final keystroke is made. Probably done this way to prevent fraudulent refunds. Just like in many grocery stores where the check out clerk needs to have a supervisor come over to approve a refund or price adjustment.

 

As a result, the manual process to approve refunds can take a minimum of a few days and who knows how long when the current number of cancellations have to be manually processed.

[Cruising Forever!]

It's been three weeks since we canceled.  Hopefully our refund comes soon. 

 

[Daniel A]

6 hours ago, Cruising Forever! said:

It's been three weeks since we canceled.  Hopefully our refund comes soon. 

 

Princess Issued an Updated on Refunds regarding Processing Time -- March 20, 2020

 

Given the volume of refund requests and the care being dedicated to ensure each guest’s request is processed accurately and in a coordinated manner, please allow for approximately 60 days for refunds to be processed. All refunds will be processed in due course, but delays should be anticipated. Please allow sufficient time for us to manage this process.

[voljeep]

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Princess Issued an Updated on Refunds regarding Processing Time -- March 20, 2020

 

Given the volume of refund requests and the care being dedicated to ensure each guest’s request is processed accurately and in a coordinated manner, please allow for approximately 60 days for refunds to be processed. All refunds will be processed in due course, but delays should be anticipated. Please allow sufficient time for us to manage this process.

looks like some will get the 'stimulus check' ( 4/17 estimated now ) before their 'refund check'

[travelhound]

Carnival did raise over 6.25 Billion in debt and equity sales yesterday.  This should provide the much needed liquidity to survive this crisis.  Hopefully they will now be able to make good on the refunds that were promised.  Unfortunately, I think it will take them about 60-90 days to do that.  I do believe Carnival is in good position to recover and look forward to the day we can sail again.

[enfuego4cruising]

A lot of upward movement on Carnival stock prices this morning. News today of a recent huge bet on Carnival stock. An informative article on Barrons' website today:

 

https://www.barrons.com/articles/carnival-stock-rallies-after-saudi-stake-disclosure-and-a-zero-sail-liquidity-assessment-51586186393

 

I am considering buying more shares, but as an avid cruiser, I am emotionally invested. So since I am not a financial advisor, I am running the idea by mine. At the end of the day, its gambling.

[fishin' musician]

47 minutes ago, enfuego4cruising said:

A lot of upward movement on Carnival stock prices this morning. News today of a recent huge bet on Carnival stock. An informative article on Barrons' website today:

 

https://www.barrons.com/articles/carnival-stock-rallies-after-saudi-stake-disclosure-and-a-zero-sail-liquidity-assessment-51586186393

 

I am considering buying more shares, but as an avid cruiser, I am emotionally invested. So since I am not a financial advisor, I am running the idea by mine. At the end of the day, its gambling.

If the Saudis dump it for a quick return it will tank again.

[WNcruiser]

On 4/2/2020 at 6:48 AM, Daniel A said:

Princess Issued an Updated on Refunds regarding Processing Time -- March 20, 2020

 

Given the volume of refund requests and the care being dedicated to ensure each guest’s request is processed accurately and in a coordinated manner, please allow for approximately 60 days for refunds to be processed. All refunds will be processed in due course, but delays should be anticipated. Please allow sufficient time for us to manage this process.

And no one thinks its strange that out of thousands of CC members here not one single person that was cancelled on March 12th has received a refund in the first 30 days? 

 

I have lost hope in Princess and will be disputing the charge on Thursday which will be 4 weeks from cancellation. We paid in full in February so are still able to file a dispute. 

[bluesea321]

20 minutes ago, WNcruiser said:

And no one thinks its strange that out of thousands of CC members here not one single person that was cancelled on March 12th has received a refund in the first 30 days? 

 

Good point...

[voljeep]

44 minutes ago, WNcruiser said:

And no one thinks its strange that out of thousands of CC members here not one single person that was cancelled on March 12th has received a refund in the first 30 days? 

maybe a hundo or so semi-regular posters , and then the duck and run's

[Mackenzie1]

Here is some hope:  Saudi Arabia takes a stake in Carnival Cruises:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabias-sovereign-wealth-fund-buys-a-stake-in-carnival-2020-4

[bingobunny14]

I cancelled our princess air on march 9 and then the cruise to hawaii got cancelled another week later..Haven't received a dime . I thought i would have had my ezair payment refunded since it was earlier and before the 45 day cut off..I have been in touch with my TA and he said they are all being done manually so it will take the 60 days..Not looking good for Princess or future cruises..fingers crossed i will see some of my money soon..

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, WNcruiser said:

And no one thinks its strange that out of thousands of CC members here not one single person that was cancelled on March 12th has received a refund in the first 30 days? 

 

I have lost hope in Princess and will be disputing the charge on Thursday which will be 4 weeks from cancellation. We paid in full in February so are still able to file a dispute. 

I really don't get this.  Princess has gone on record stating it will take approximately 60 days to process refunds.  You're complaining that you haven't received your refund in one-third of the amount of time which was specified.  How long does it take for you to get a tax refund?  Refunds take time, be patient.  It hasn't even been thirty days yet.