What is X doing to sanitize affected ships ?

[hcat]

Saw this snippet on line today on my cell phone...may have been Yahoo news ? from GMA:

 

"Traces of the coronavirus remained inside cabins of the Diamond Princess for more than two weeks after the cruise ship was vacated, according to a report released by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control Monday.

Researchers who studied the ship, which was docked in Japan on Feb. 5 and placed under quarantine for more than two weeks after several passengers and crew contracted COVID-19, determined that there were still traces of SARS-CoV-2 RNA present inside cabins 17 days after the 3,711 passengers and crew were removed......."

 

Although X ships were less impacted some did have pax and crew that tested positive for Corona Virus.  I am wondering how those and all X ships will be sanitized before passengers  are re boarded.....and ongoing????

 

I understand there are some very heavy processes that can be done but no idea what X will do...

Edited March 24, 2020 by hcat

[hvbaskey]

53 minutes ago, hcat said:

 

Although X ships were less impacted some did have pax and crew that tested positive for Corona Virus.  I am wondering how those and all X ships will be sanitized before passengers  are re boarded.....and ongoing????

 

Current list of X ships that need a deep clean due to COVID-19:

Celebrity Summit (confirmed cases since Feb 29th) -
no communication reported from X thus far (see separate thread)

Celebrity Silhouette (confirmed cases since March) -
no communication reported from X thus far (see separate thread)

Celebrity Solstice (confirmed cases since March 10) -
passengers received email after disembarkation (see separate thread)

Celebrity Infinity (confirmed case since March) -
passengers receiving email today (see separate thread)

 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by hvbaskey

[jelayne]

Saw videos of the crew on the Edge cleaning the ship. With about a month of being idle for most ships they have time to do a thorough cleaning of every area. 

[hcat]

I hope they are ALL  completely sanitized..including  parts not seen like AC vents etc..

 

We give our cabins a quick surface  clean with wipes but that is not a deep clean!

 

There are companies that use advanced techniques to decontaminate. Not sure what is needed for Corona!

Edited March 24, 2020 by hcat

[davekathy]

Agree. Perfect time for a complete fleetwide deep cleaning. Once staterooms are deep cleaned they should be inspected, tagged and locked. Same with all other public areas. Inside and out. 

[markeb]

There's a thread already trying to explain what the study actually said. It's been moved to another forum. 

 

RNA was found. RNA was what they were looking for. They did not find nor were they looking for viable virus. The study doesn't look at whether there was actual transmission. And it definitely doesn't look at whether transmission was possible 17 days on.

 

Unfortunately, this was an "update" in a CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, with what detail was available posted in the bottom of the discussion section. Everyone's picking up on the middle of the discussion.

 

FWIW, this is exactly how the decontamination of Senate office buildings went in 2001; the more they deconned, the more they looked for DNA, and the more they found DNA...

Edited March 24, 2020 by markeb

[hcat]

Some of that is over my head so I humbly accept what I think you are saying. Not sure what they were looking for???

 

But even if it does not mean it is capable of contact transmission,  some of those   ships esp in non refurbed areas   are not as clean as they used to be... esp under furniture,  nooks and crannies, drapes, etc   Some of the public lounges have a fair amount of dust and could use an airing out wherever possible. They have some time  to make it all squeaky clean.

 

  We were very impressed with cleanliness  on EDGE.    They took apart the lower portion of the solarium showers daily and really cleaned them ....good job!

[markeb]

The RNA is the genetic material of the virus. The test is so sensitive it will find it even if the virus isn't intact, or dried out completely, etc. It's a challenge with interpreting this type of test in the environment. The MMWR is really a publication for public health professionals, and can get VERY technical when appropriate. And misinterpreted because it's a quick publication and doesn't get a lot of review for risk communication. They cleaned and disinfected the various Senate office buildings over and over again in 2001. There's a very long report, I believe from the EPA, that is probably still online. Those of us who were in or near the business at the time just kept shaking our heads as the disinfection method couldn't possibly have eliminated the genetic material the test was looking for.

 

Agree completely on the cleanliness and sanitation and was going to come back and say that. Very thorough cleaning, disinfecting with the best means possible, possibly even replacing soft materials, makes perfect sense. But using the research methodology reported today to verify the absence of viable virus is unlikely to be useful.

[hcat]

Got it.. thanks.

Although I recall DNA and RNA from school..not in my current  purview.   Also learned a new word  recently

" guidance"...very big at the Press Conference.

[travelpeon]

One of my local airport's twitter feed has been showing battery operated sprayers filled with disinfecting cleaning agents.

 

It could be similar to plane deep clean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xSxbEqzohI

 

[cruise47]

I also hope they changed all the air filters on their ships.

[Miaminice]

I am sure Celebrity will use the time at hand to clean the ships as much as they can.

However, there is no harm done by the "traces" of virus which were found. 
In a nutshell: it´s dead and not contagious. You can still extract dinosaur "traces" today, but it won´t eat you 🙂

The good thing with Corona according to virologists is that contact contamination (like on door handles etc.) is very unlikely.
You would have to pick up an unlikely high dose of virus and then basically lick your fingers.

Don´t get me wrong: Caution is advised and great!!! However, some things which can be read at the moment are beyond caution and logic.

[greykitty]

My question would be how will cruise lines modify cleaning of personal and public spaces between cruises going forward.  It seems to me from reading here that every cruise line basically practices minimal cleaning between cruises; people get off at 9:00 am and people get on around noon same day, a schedule like that?  

 

If that's true, obviously there is minimal sanitizing cleaning being done - possibly even less than the local Comfort Inn between guest arrivals. 

 

Should cruise lines be mandated to allow for actual sanitizing of spaces between cruises?  Even if that means taking an entire day, or two, between cruises?  And, yes, of course fares would go up to reflect this loss of 'days'.  Fair trade?

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, markeb said:

The RNA is the genetic material of the virus. The test is so sensitive it will find it even if the virus isn't intact, or dried out completely, etc. It's a challenge with interpreting this type of test in the environment. The MMWR is really a publication for public health professionals, and can get VERY technical when appropriate. And misinterpreted because it's a quick publication and doesn't get a lot of review for risk communication. They cleaned and disinfected the various Senate office buildings over and over again in 2001. There's a very long report, I believe from the EPA, that is probably still online. Those of us who were in or near the business at the time just kept shaking our heads as the disinfection method couldn't possibly have eliminated the genetic material the test was looking for.

 

Agree completely on the cleanliness and sanitation and was going to come back and say that. Very thorough cleaning, disinfecting with the best means possible, possibly even replacing soft materials, makes perfect sense. But using the research methodology reported today to verify the absence of viable virus is unlikely to be useful.

The PCR test of the RNA is so sensitive it will pick up viral fragments that are non-viable  as you expressed here.  Even after thorough cleaning that still might be the case.  The test exponentially amplifies the fragments it is designed to detect.  Most of the non-scientist media mouths will get this wrong and spread mis-information.  The only thing to do if there is a positive PCR result is to go back and double check the area it came from for live intact virus.  

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

The good thing with Corona according to virologists is that contact contamination (like on door handles etc.) is very unlikely.

Your comment dangerously contradicts the one consistent message from WHO, CDC, and virologists around the world that the best protective measure is to wash your hands. From the CDC website:

 

Take steps to protect yourself

 

Clean your hands often

• Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds especially after you have been in a public place, or after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.
• If soap and water are not readily available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol. Cover all surfaces of your hands and rub them together until they feel dry.
• Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands.

 

 

Avoid close contact

• Avoid close contact with people who are sick
• Put distance between yourself and other people if COVID-19 is spreading in your community. This is especially important for people who are at higher risk of getting very sick.

[LMaxwell]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

However, there is no harm done by the "traces" of virus which were found. 
 

 

Posts like this should be removed by admins. 

[davekathy]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

I am sure Celebrity will use the time at hand to clean the ships as much as they can.

However, there is no harm done by the "traces" of virus which were found. 
In a nutshell: it´s dead and not contagious. You can still extract dinosaur "traces" today, but it won´t eat you 🙂

The good thing with Corona according to virologists is that contact contamination (like on door handles etc.) is very unlikely.
You would have to pick up an unlikely high dose of virus and then basically lick your fingers.

Don´t get me wrong: Caution is advised and great!!! However, some things which can be read at the moment are beyond caution and logic.

Including what you posted. 

[cle-guy]

ships sitting empty for 2 months.  The virus will be dead in 2 weeks sitting on surfaces.  self-sanitized.

[Georgia_Peaches]

And with the ships sitting idle for so long, there is plenty of time for a much deeper cleaning than usual.

[davekathy]

4 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

And with the ships sitting idle for so long, there is plenty of time for a much deeper cleaning than usual.

Absolutely no excuse not to. 

[Miaminice]

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Posts like this should be removed by admins. 

 

Sorry, but it is a fact! The "traces" found in the article mentioned by the OP are dead!

The virus itself is not present any more in a reproductive shape.
Simply look at the recent studies of virologists and you will understand. Markeb explained it well in post #6 and TeeRick in post #14.

Again, I have no intention to downplay the danger of the virus. I am simply trying to stick to facts.
This post is about cleaning the ships - which is of course it is a good idea! But after sitting idle for weeks without any virus present there is no danger of getting infected by touching anything on one of the ships.
 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Miaminice

[Miaminice]

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Your comment dangerously contradicts the one consistent message from WHO, CDC, and virologists around the world that the best protective measure is to wash your hands. From the CDC website..

 

🙄 No it does not! Please read what I wrote!

 

Virologists around the world agree that the first and most likely way to be infected is by inhaling the virus (droplet infection).

 

They also found out in experiments and by taking samples from phones, remote controlls etc. in households of infected families in hot spots like Heinsberg, Germany and in experiments to repoduce the virus from the samples that the risk of contact contamination (smear infection) with COVID-19 is low and unlikely. And that is all I said. I did not say it is non-existent and impossible but simply repeated findings of viologists around the world that it is LOW. And that´s not bad news. 

 

Since low does not mean non-existent, of course washing hands etc. is still a good protective measure!

If you want to be precise your statement is incorrect. Washing hands (as good as it is) is not the BEST protective measure. Since COVID-19 is primarily transmitted by aerosoles which are inhaled, keeping a distance is the BEST thing to do. 
Washing your hands does not protect you from inhaling the virus, does it?
All these people sitting on top of each other on the beaches during spring break etc. could have washed their hands a thousand times and still catch the virus by the most likely way: inhaling it.

To get back to the topic of this thread... the virus can not survive on any surface of the ships for weeks.
 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Miaminice

[sakigemcam]

Silhouette was immaculate when we were on it 3/6-15. That's not to say a deep clean isn't a good thing, but we were very impressed with the fastidious cleaning,. 

[hvbaskey]

1 hour ago, sakigemcam said:

Silhouette was immaculate when we were on it 3/6-15. That's not to say a deep clean isn't a good thing, but we were very impressed with the fastidious cleaning,. 

 

It may have been immaculate, but people still came home with COVID-19 😷

[Georgia_Peaches]

One should not expect to sail in a completely sterile environment regardless of the level of cleaning and sanitation that occurs.  The minute a passenger steps foot back on board ,the ship is contaminated with whatever...

Edited March 25, 2020 by Georgia_Peaches