CRUISE REFUND RECEIVED

[jeanlyon]

21 hours ago, Manx buoy said:

Well after a short 7 week wait P&O have said we can use our FCC on existing bookings I might send the refunds back to them now so we can🤦‍♂️

Manx, is that just you or can anyone use an FCC on an existing booking?

[Hampshire Steve]

2 hours ago, kalos said:

 

As a social experiment I asked my son to wear a "I ❤️ Paul Ludlow"  t-shirt for two weeks to gauge people's reactions.

So far he's been spat on punched and abused countless times.
I'm curious to see what happens when he goes outside. 

Like it

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, option1 said:

Carnival Corporation & plc Announces Pricing of $1.86 billion and €800 million First-Priority Senior Secured Term Loan Facility

 

No excuse now...Carnival awash with money

Which will last them two  months!

[Manx buoy]

3 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Manx, is that just you or can anyone use an FCC on an existing booking?

I got our TA to ask them after seeing other posts saying they’d been allowed to do it because they had so many already booked at the time we had 9 booked up to Sep21 so would’ve struggled to fit a new one in but hedged our bets and asked for refunds on the earlier ones that had already been cancelled as well. It’s their loss because of their usual prompt replies to everything, I’d rather the money in my pocket anyway the way things are shaping

[jeanlyon]

Yes I agree.  I might ask my TA if they can do that with my FCC onto April 21.  No harm in asking.

[Manx buoy]

29 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes I agree.  I might ask my TA if they can do that with my FCC onto April 21.  No harm in asking.

I’d do it now then it may take a while to get a response. Our TA said they’re just looking at it case to case so no guarantees good luck

[grapau27]

6 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

I’d do it now then it may take a while to get a response. Our TA said they’re just looking at it case to case so no guarantees good luck

If P&O had allowed FCC against cruises already booked a lot of us would probably have done that and it would have saved the refund fiasco and all the bad feeling as a result of the long waits for refunds.

[Manx buoy]

5 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

If P&O had allowed FCC against cruises already booked a lot of us would probably have done that and it would have saved the refund fiasco and all the bad feeling as a result of the long waits for refunds.

Yep that’s what we’d have done sadly it’s cost them big time now

[jeanlyon]

Totally agree.  I would have happily done that.

[terrierjohn]

57 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

If P&O had allowed FCC against cruises already booked a lot of us would probably have done that and it would have saved the refund fiasco and all the bad feeling as a result of the long waits for refunds.

Very true Graham, I just do not understand why this option was not offered from the beginning.  It would have made a major difference to their cash flow, and enabled them to pay refunds far sooner, avoiding most of the poor PR.

[majortom10]

They didnt do it because many already had a cruise booked and they were hoping that everyone was going to be overjoyed with the extra 25% bonus on a FCC and book an extra cruise next year at inflated prices but it back fired big style and instead created a mountainous work load for refunds. I honestly believe that they thought many would stay loyal and book extra cruises and they didnt expect the workload of refunds which has been handled appalling by Carnival UK (P&O/Cunard)_and no doubt given the brands a terrible reputation. I also believe that head should roll at the very top of Carnival UK i.e David Dingle/Josh Weinstein and P&O/Cunard Paul Ludlow/Simon Palethorpe.

[Bin man]

Well that's not going to happen mr Palethorpe got promoted 19 th june to head of carnival uk .Read that when it happened thought it was strange nobody replied on that one 

[majortom10]

4 minutes ago, Bin man said:

Well that's not going to happen mr Palethorpe got promoted 19 th june to head of carnival uk .Read that when it happened thought it was strange nobody replied on that one 

Amazing completely "b**** up" the whole process of refunds throughout the world and get promoted what does that say about Carnival as a group.

Edited June 27, 2020 by majortom10

[ollienbertsmum]

31 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

They didnt do it because many already had a cruise booked and they were hoping that everyone was going to be overjoyed with the extra 25% bonus on a FCC and book an extra cruise next year at inflated prices but it back fired big style and instead created a mountainous work load for refunds. I honestly believe that they thought many would stay loyal and book extra cruises and they didnt expect the workload of refunds which has been handled appalling by Carnival UK (P&O/Cunard)_and no doubt given the brands a terrible reputation. I also believe that head should roll at the very top of Carnival UK i.e David Dingle/Josh Weinstein and P&O/Cunard Paul Ludlow/Simon Palethorpe.

 

 

Mmm if I had had a cruise already booked I might (if DH was not so precious with his health) have said ‘ok now I have enough money to be able to afford to significantly upgrade my booking’.  I certainly would not have booked another whole cruise.  I would not book due to annual leave restrictions and the knowledge that the cruise fare is only part of the actual costs of a trip (add on flights,  pre and post cruise stays, drinks bill, casino costs and excursions during the cruise) which is usually around £1000 and we are just a couple who don’t spend excessively.  

 

I won’t be booking another cruise in a hurry.  I don’t think that the cruise industry have tempted me back just yet.  Although one of the RCI ships was in port again yesterday.  I think it was the Explorer,  the angle she was at I could only see ‘the seas’.    It was hard not to sit through my lunch just staring.  

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Very true Graham, I just do not understand why this option was not offered from the beginning.  It would have made a major difference to their cash flow, and enabled them to pay refunds far sooner, avoiding most of the poor PR.

Poor top management imo.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

They didnt do it because many already had a cruise booked and they were hoping that everyone was going to be overjoyed with the extra 25% bonus on a FCC and book an extra cruise next year at inflated prices but it back fired big style and instead created a mountainous work load for refunds. I honestly believe that they thought many would stay loyal and book extra cruises and they didnt expect the workload of refunds which has been handled appalling by Carnival UK (P&O/Cunard)_and no doubt given the brands a terrible reputation. I also believe that head should roll at the very top of Carnival UK i.e David Dingle/Josh Weinstein and P&O/Cunard Paul Ludlow/Simon Palethorpe.

I absolutely agree.

Whether they will do the honourable thing and resign is questionable.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by grapau27

[grapau27]

59 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Amazing completely "b**** up" the whole process of refunds throughout the world and get promoted what does that say about Carnival as a group.

Unbelievable incompetence.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

Amazing completely "b**** up" the whole process of refunds throughout the world and get promoted what does that say about Carnival as a group.

I suspect that delaying refunds to preserve their cash was probably the main driver, so I imagine a big bonus will be their reward.

[grapau27]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

I suspect that delaying refunds to preserve their cash was probably the main driver, so I imagine a big bonus will be their reward.

In their world they are probably getting big bonuses for delaying refunds.

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, majortom10 said:

They didnt do it because many already had a cruise booked and they were hoping that everyone was going to be overjoyed with the extra 25% bonus on a FCC and book an extra cruise next year at inflated prices but it back fired big style and instead created a mountainous work load for refunds. 

When you read the internal views around how long Covid-19 was likely to suspend cruises for initially, the end of 2020 seemed to be a worse case scenario - and for a very limited time a 25% bonus on FCC might have been attractive.  However, the offer wasn't properly thought through - as it wasn't based on a worse case planning scenario and it wasn't considered alongside what the British cruise market expects.

 

Therefore, the 25%, IMO has actually caused more anger in many cases by trying to pretend to be a gift when in many cases it's nothing like one.  Yes, that depends on what you choose to spend your money on.

 

Beyond the administrative farce around refunds, the other errors have included:

 

1) Offering no compensatory OBC as a sweetener to encourage re-bookings;

 

2) Even worse, offering passengers up to £400 OBC per cabin not to cancel, and subsequently refusing to honour the offer when the cruise was cancelled.  You don't miss what you don't have, but you do miss more what is taken from you.  With the huge margins on many OBC purchases, this might have cost them around £100-150 per cabin to service (much less in reality), change in the grand scheme of things.  

 

3) P&O set their stall put at the get go not to offer either a price promise, or reduced payment terms (less than 90 days).  I would be very interested to see the percentage of FCC from RCL and Fred compared to P&O.  Likely an error.

 

4) Truly dreadful videos, quizzes, Which! - terrible PR.  Find own foot, aim carefully, fire repeatedly.

 

Ultimately, I believe that they underestimated how resilient passengers would be in requesting cash refunds when faced with ever increasing delays (for some).  None of these errors was a breach of contract, but all breached usually steadfast goodwill. 

 

The errors have led to P&O being seen as "below average" (being kind) on refunds and made it difficult for them to meet their own non-compliant standards on refunds.  Social distancing on cruises , plus any possible overbooking, and mass redundancies will only make this worse.  I would go as far to say that no one has done brilliantly in the travel industry in terms of customer perception, but some have done much worse than others, including the Carnival umbrella brands.

 

The lower the base prices in the 2022 brochure, particularly for Iona, the worse P&O will have done - 2021 will be a "freak" year for deferred revenue.  That, eventually, and not customer service now, may create ripples of accountability in Carnival House - we must wait and see.

[staygulf]

1 hour ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

 

Mmm if I had had a cruise already booked I might (if DH was not so precious with his health) have said ‘ok now I have enough money to be able to afford to significantly upgrade my booking’.  I certainly would not have booked another whole cruise.  I would not book due to annual leave restrictions and the knowledge that the cruise fare is only part of the actual costs of a trip (add on flights,  pre and post cruise stays, drinks bill, casino costs and excursions during the cruise) which is usually around £1000 and we are just a couple who don’t spend excessively.  

 

I won’t be booking another cruise in a hurry.  I don’t think that the cruise industry have tempted me back just yet.  Although one of the RCI ships was in port again yesterday.  I think it was the Explorer,  the angle she was at I could only see ‘the seas’.    It was hard not to sit through my lunch just staring.  

I can understand the need for flights, maybe a pre or post cruise stay, excursions and even a drink or two. But why is there a need to factor casino costs into a cruise? That seems reckless to me. 

[staygulf]

11 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

When you read the internal views around how long Covid-19 was likely to suspend cruises for initially, the end of 2020 seemed to be a worse case scenario - and for a very limited time a 25% bonus on FCC might have been attractive.  However, the offer wasn't properly thought through - as it wasn't based on a worse case planning scenario and it wasn't considered alongside what the British cruise market expects.

 

Therefore, the 25%, IMO has actually caused more anger in many cases by trying to pretend to be a gift when in many cases it's nothing like one.  Yes, that depends on what you choose to spend your money on.

 

Beyond the administrative farce around refunds, the other errors have included:

 

1) Offering no compensatory OBC as a sweetener to encourage re-bookings;

 

2) Even worse, offering passengers up to £400 OBC per cabin not to cancel, and subsequently refusing to honour the offer when the cruise was cancelled.  You don't miss what you don't have, but you do miss more what is taken from you.  With the huge margins on many OBC purchases, this might have cost them around £100-150 per cabin to service (much less in reality), change in the grand scheme of things.  

 

3) P&O set their stall put at the get go not to offer either a price promise, or reduced payment terms (less than 90 days).  I would be very interested to see the percentage of FCC from RCL and Fred compared to P&O.  Likely an error.

 

4) Truly dreadful videos, quizzes, Which! - terrible PR.  Find own foot, aim carefully, fire repeatedly.

 

Ultimately, I believe that they underestimated how resilient passengers would be in requesting cash refunds when faced with ever increasing delays (for some).  None of these errors was a breach of contract, but all breached usually steadfast goodwill. 

 

The errors have led to P&O being seen as "below average" (being kind) on refunds and made it difficult for them to meet their own non-compliant standards on refunds.  Social distancing on cruises , plus any possible overbooking, and mass redundancies will only make this worse.  I would go as far to say that no one has done brilliantly in the travel industry in terms of customer perception, but some have done much worse than others, including the Carnival umbrella brands.

 

The lower the base prices in the 2022 brochure, particularly for Iona, the worse P&O will have done - 2021 will be a "freak" year for deferred revenue.  That, eventually, and not customer service now, may create ripples of accountability in Carnival House - we must wait and see.

None of these errors was a breach of contract, but all breached usually steadfast goodwill. 
 

The whole sorry sham is a breach of contract. The Package Travel regulations clearly state that a cancellation by them requires a refund to customer within 14 days. No offers of FCC snd no having to request the refund. It is automatic. The regulations clearly state that the conditions form part of the contract terms. 
 

So I’m afraid there has been a clear breach of contract in every cancellation. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by staygulf

[Selbourne]

47 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I suspect that delaying refunds to preserve their cash was probably the main driver, so I imagine a big bonus will be their reward.

I agree. It’s never been a ***** up. It’s been 100% deliberate to preserve cash flow, even though one or two people criticised me when I said that right at the outset!

[terrierjohn]

11 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I agree. It’s never been a ***** up. It’s been 100% deliberate to preserve cash flow, even though one or two people criticised me when I said that right at the outset!

TBH Selbourne, P&O are not the only ones to follow this policy, and probably not even the worst. And in the circumstances of having very limited cash inflows many firms feared they would fold if they had to live up to the full letter of the refund law. In addition with the Govt throwing billions at the problem to avoid massive job losses and company failures, there was little likelihood that they would face any concerted legal action.

That may seem grossly unfair on the passengers due a refund, but if the lack of legal action against these companies helps to ensure their survival then surely in the long term that is a far better outcome than the alternative.

[Selbourne]

24 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

TBH Selbourne, P&O are not the only ones to follow this policy, and probably not even the worst. And in the circumstances of having very limited cash inflows many firms feared they would fold if they had to live up to the full letter of the refund law. In addition with the Govt throwing billions at the problem to avoid massive job losses and company failures, there was little likelihood that they would face any concerted legal action.

That may seem grossly unfair on the passengers due a refund, but if the lack of legal action against these companies helps to ensure their survival then surely in the long term that is a far better outcome than the alternative.

I don’t disagree John and have never said that this is a ‘unique to P&O’ issue, but the motive behind the delays to refunds has never been in doubt in my mind. Although we don’t intend to risk another cruise until we are vaccinated, I sincerely hope that P&O comes out the other side of this and, for what it’s worth, I feel that they will - possibly with a ship or two less, sadly. Like yourselves, ex UK round trip cruises are a must for us, so the more choice the better.