100 more days

[firefox247]

8 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Wondering what that now means?? 

No Sail Order and Suspension of Further Embarkation; Notice of Modification and Extension and Other Measures Related to Operations

by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Editorial Note: The agency has requested this document be withdrawn from publication after placement on public inspection. The document will remain on file through close of business on April 13, 2020. A copy of the agency's withdrawal letter is available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register.

 

The order that was withdrawn was filed on Wednesday and is likely not the current order:

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2020/04/08

 

As I mentioned back a few posts, the CDC initially had a different date and signed document, and it applied for 120 days instead of 100 days.  I am attaching the old document with that information that was up until they updated it on April 9.  The CDC likely filed it with the Federal Register on April 8, realized they wanted to make changes, and had to withdraw the old one.

 

I suspect the "new" order will show up in a day or so, but the new order likely still stands.

No Sail Order (04.08.2020).pdf

Edited April 10, 2020 by firefox247

[Pratique]

4 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Wondering what that now means?? 

No Sail Order and Suspension of Further Embarkation; Notice of Modification and Extension and Other Measures Related to Operations

by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Editorial Note: The agency has requested this document be withdrawn from publication after placement on public inspection. The document will remain on file through close of business on April 13, 2020. A copy of the agency's withdrawal letter is available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register.

What this means is that the modified order cannot be enforced before it is published, which would be Monday at the earliest.

 

Trying to keep up with the machinations of the federal government can be challenging. But at the end of the day the Federal Register is the final official word, regardless of what appears on other web pages.

[zekekelso]

The 100 days thing is almost meaningless. We should probably just ignore it. The order can be cut short of 100 days. The order can be extended. 

 

All the 100 days thing does is prevent the order from living forever if the CDC never addresses the issue. But we can be near certain that one way or the other the CDC will act before the 100 days is up, whenever that is. 

[Iamcruzin]

13 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

That’s how I read it.  100 days from when this Order is published in the Federal Register.(3)  There are also outs in order to resume cruising early though (1 and 2) 

 

This Order is effective upon publication in the Federal Register and shall continue in operation until the earliest of (1) the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency; (2) the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations; or (3) 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.

I heard this on the radio this morning when I was on the way to the supermarket.  I didn't retain it but know someone on CC would start a thread.

[Rocket3D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g

[Pratique]

5 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

The 100 days thing is almost meaningless. We should probably just ignore it. The order can be cut short of 100 days. The order can be extended. 

 

All the 100 days thing does is prevent the order from living forever if the CDC never addresses the issue. But we can be near certain that one way or the other the CDC will act before the 100 days is up, whenever that is. 

I agree that the 100 days is a placeholder, but it is curious that on Wednesday it was 120 days. So who knows what's going on.

[MoniMommy]

This is interesting because I didn't realize there was an actual no sail order. I knew they couldn't sail obviously but didn't realize it was an actual government order. I remember reading somewhere in the contract that they were not responsible for government orders. I remember thinking if this was a way for them not to provide refunds. But so far they are promising refunds.

[SherriZ366]

3 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Those restrictions were put in place by CLIA as part of their action plan and not by the CDC.  

 

 

I wonder if these restrictions will continue after the 100 days.  Cruisers who are 70+ make up a huge percentage of RCCL's market.  

[SherriZ366]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I pushed out till August 23rd Harmony

We're on that sailing also.  Maybe we'll finally meet in person instead of virtually.  

[orville99]

Typically, when a document is put out on the Federal Register for public inspection, it triggers a 90-day comment period before it is enforced. Not sure whether an emergency order follows the same process, but my guess is that the comments from CLIA and the cruise lines hit the fan vey quickly. The 4/13 date is interesting. Probably giving the week-end for negotiations between the counter-parties to come up with a consistent set of steps going forward. The original 100-day clock is still running, BTW.

[SherriZ366]

19 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Typically, when a document is put out on the Federal Register for public inspection, it triggers a 90-day comment period before it is enforced. Not sure whether an emergency order follows the same process, but my guess is that the comments from CLIA and the cruise lines hit the fan vey quickly. The 4/13 date is interesting. Probably giving the week-end for negotiations between the counter-parties to come up with a consistent set of steps going forward. The original 100-day clock is still running, BTW.

Does the original 100 day clock run from March or April 9?  

 

[dmw1952]

Looks like they extended the "no sail order".

         This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of three situations. First, the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.  Second, the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations.  Or third, 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html

[Pratique]

22 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Typically, when a document is put out on the Federal Register for public inspection, it triggers a 90-day comment period before it is enforced. Not sure whether an emergency order follows the same process, but my guess is that the comments from CLIA and the cruise lines hit the fan vey quickly. The 4/13 date is interesting. Probably giving the week-end for negotiations between the counter-parties to come up with a consistent set of steps going forward. The original 100-day clock is still running, BTW.

That is usually the case for preliminary rule making but not always the case for administrative actions. Presidential executive actions are not subject to a public comment period for example. They will get their act together eventually and get it published.

[molly361]

Already being discussed

 

 

[rockmom]

yep, multiple threads already.  

[MoniMommy]

It actually makes me feel a little safer to know that cruise lines themselves can't decide when it's safe. Not that I have an overriding faith in the government, but its good to know that they are accountable to someone other than shareholders when deciding when to sail again.

[firefly333]

Our local news had this on and said cruises cannot continue until at least july. Sounded firm to me. At least july. Expect more cruises to be cancelled.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

and now withdrawn from publication The agency has requested this document be withdrawn from publication after placement on public inspection. The document will remain on file through close of business on April 13, 2020. A copy of the agency's withdrawal letter is available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register.

 https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/10/2020-07677/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

 

[dmw1952]

Ooooops....Moderator please remove.  

Thank You.

[orville99]

36 minutes ago, SherriZ366 said:

Does the original 100 day clock run from March or April 9?  

 

March

[Billy Baltic]

1 hour ago, SherriZ366 said:

I wonder if these restrictions will continue after the 100 days.  Cruisers who are 70+ make up a huge percentage of RCCL's market.  

Are there any numbers available on the demographics of RC sailings? I doubt all the money poured into bumping cars, enormous water slides, surf simulators, laser tag, etc, etc is for the over 70 age group. 

[orville99]

32 minutes ago, Pratique said:

That is usually the case for preliminary rule making but not always the case for administrative actions. Presidential executive actions are not subject to a public comment period for example. They will get their act together eventually and get it published.

IMO, a proverbial “shot across the bow” by the CDC. Definitely got the cruise lines attention. I expect that the document will be published once the cruise lines capitulate.

[SherriZ366]

1 minute ago, Billy Baltic said:

Are there any numbers available on the demographics of RC sailings? I doubt all the money poured into bumping cars, enormous water slides, surf simulators, laser tag, etc, etc is for the over 70 age group. 

I'm just guessing 25-40% of cruisers are over 65 -- I think it varies between ship types (e.g. ones without the activities geared to families with children) and time of year.  Also older people are more apt to take more than one cruise per year -- many families are limited to school vacations and cruise once per year or every other year.  

[Jobeth66]

26 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

and now withdrawn from publication The agency has requested this document be withdrawn from publication after placement on public inspection. The document will remain on file through close of business on April 13, 2020. A copy of the agency's withdrawal letter is available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register.

 https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/10/2020-07677/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

 

 

I think that was a prior order, not the new one.

[Pratique]

14 minutes ago, orville99 said:

IMO, a proverbial “shot across the bow” by the CDC. Definitely got the cruise lines attention. I expect that the document will be published once the cruise lines capitulate.

The justification cited by the CDC for the modified order is that the plan previously submitted by the CLIA was woefully insufficient, particularly with respect to ensuring that they will not rely on federal or state resources. It is a tall order and basically the federal government is telling the cruise lines no joy until they can prove that they will not be a burden on government resources. They want the industry to take care of it on their own.