Will you cruise without a COVID vaccine?

[HxFx]

26 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

Yes, life does come with risks but that doesn't mean you walk into the street before looking both ways because "whatever will be, will be."  I find this line of reasoning absurd.  Magical thinking doesn't lessen risk in the face of actual danger.  You hear a knock at the door and look through the peephole to see someone in a hockey mask holding a machete dripping with blood.  You let them in because you don't want to be inconvenienced with talking to the police?  Say "well, it must be my time.  Come on in!"? 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. For me, my "looking both ways" wrt cruising (or any vacation) is being vigilant with washing my hands, avoiding buffets, and not shaking hands (among others things I'm sure will come to mind later). It's not perfect but you can look both ways and have some jerk speed around the corner and kill you.

[mouseRD]

2 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

you could trip in your home

Oh my gosh!  I did that last week!  Fortunately, just banged up knee and tops of feet - ice helped quite a bit!  

As far as the cruising question, I keep vacillating back and forth.  I've read comments on both sides and I totally see where people are coming from on both sides.  We definitely plan to cruise/fly, etc. again.  I guess we will wait and see when November comes how we feel about cruising in February 2021 or if we want to push it back further.  

[Moby Jones]

Depends entirely on the itinerary and date of departure. 

I'd travel to and sail from countries with low rates of infection but not others where corona virus cases are high or where I perceive the local population / government to not be taking things seriously. 

[phoenix_dream]

3 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

And despite those treatments and vaccines, lots and lots of people still die from the flu.  Respectfully, one's opinion is their own and really can't be deemed right or wrong.  It just is.

There are opinions, and then there are facts.  The facts are that the Covid-19 virus is more deadly than the flu.  Science is not an opinion.  Whether one feels it is worth the risk to sail anyway is an opinion.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, phoenix_dream said:

There are opinions, and then there are facts.  The facts are that the Covid-19 virus is more deadly than the flu.  Science is not an opinion.  Whether one feels it is worth the risk to sail anyway is an opinion.

Your argument is not with me.  I couldn't agree with you more.  Science wasn't at issue here...it was that another poster said their opinion was wrong.  They may have formed an opinion based on wrong information...but that's a different issue.  

[phoenix_dream]

3 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Not to be morbid, but you could trip in your home and hit your head the wrong way and die anyway. Assuming you even have grandchildren.

 

I'm not saying don't take precautions, and you need to do what you feel is necessary for you. But just avoiding COVID does not guarantee you living one day longer.

No, it does not guarantee living one day longer.  You are correct, anyone can die on any given day.  But it is all about evaluating the risk.  If you are a reasonably healthy person your risk of dying on any given day is very low.  Not zero, but low.   If you are sailing on a cruise ship that encounters a Covid-19 outbreak your risk of dying increases.  How much it increases of course depends on many, many factors.  And it is not just the risk of dying that is involved.  Will you live, but be very sick for a long time? Will you be quarantined for endless days or weeks stuck in a small cabin?  Will countries refuse to let you disembark?  Will the ship have an adequate medical facility to treat you properly?  And the list goes on.  

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by phoenix_dream

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1 hour ago, mouseRD said:

Oh my gosh!  I did that last week!  Fortunately, just banged up knee and tops of feet - ice helped quite a bit!  

As far as the cruising question, I keep vacillating back and forth.  I've read comments on both sides and I totally see where people are coming from on both sides.  We definitely plan to cruise/fly, etc. again.  I guess we will wait and see when November comes how we feel about cruising in February 2021 or if we want to push it back further.  

I'm glad you're ok!

[DrKoob]

11 hours ago, Banjo said:

Still too early to tell.

 

Some folks mention the vaccine would do it for them, others say no vaccine is perfect citing the flu vaccine. The one difference between the flu and covid 19 is if you get it do you have a reliable treatment. Every Fall I get the flu vaccine (had a pneumonia vaccine also) and did get the flu back in November 2017. It was just prior to our Infinity cruise from Ft Lauderdale to Santiago, Chile. Went to a urgent care (it was so bad then it closed my MDs office) and was given a antibiotic treatment regimen.  4 or 5 days later I was fine. Also, want to see what happens when some passenger(s) gets it how do ports treat the cruise ship passengers.

 

We will see.  

 

If you were really cured by antibiotics, you didn't have the flu. The flu is a virus. Antibiotics don't treat viruses, they treat infections.

[DrKoob]

How fast can I get on the ship? Sign me up! 

 

That said, our next two cruises are the Galapagos and a river cruise so it would be very different from a regular cruise. We don't have one of those scheduled until October 2021.

[Banjo]

18 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

 

If you were really cured by antibiotics, you didn't have the flu. The flu is a virus. Antibiotics don't treat viruses, they treat infections.

My bad, the urgent care clinic has a portal and I just checked-it was Baloxavir Marboxil. It worked because in a few days I felt better. The flu really hit bad the particular Fall.

[Tapi]

7 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Here's another perspective you didn't mention:  Almost 70,000 people have died from COVID-19 in the US alone.

That’s exactly what I said, but worded in a way that can place that number in its proper perspective.

Yes, you’re right. It’s 70,000 but it’s:

 

70,000 out of 324,000,000

216 out of 1,000,000

0.02% of the population 

 

 That doesn’t mean that we should let our guard down, or not protect yourselves.. But fears about this disease should be proportionate with the threat that it statistically presents. 

[MISTER 67]

NO. 

[MISTER 67]

30 minutes ago, Tapi said:

That’s exactly what I said, but worded in a way that can place that number in its proper perspective.

Yes, you’re right. It’s 70,000 but it’s:

 

70,000 out of 324,000,000

216 out of 1,000,000

0.02% of the population 

 

 That doesn’t mean that we should let our guard down, or not protect yourselves.. But fears about this disease should be proportionate with the threat that it statistically presents. 

The exact number taking 70,000 deaths and dividing by 324,000,000 is 0.00021538 of the population, a miniscule number but still enough to scare us and deter our cruising plans. No until they come up with a vaccinne.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by MISTER 67

[ipeeinthepool]

FYI I tested negative for the antibodies, so I wasn't infected in February when I was on the Silhouette for 3 weeks.  I was hoping for a different result.   We have cruise booked for November on the Grandeur of the Seas.  I'm not sure that cruise will go but we would probably go if Royal had a plan that was reasonable.  I'm more concerned about our Caribbean B2B in February 2021.  If Celebrity doesn't have a plan that makes everyone comfortable by February 2021, there may not be a Celerity cruise line

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

FYI I tested negative for the antibodies, so I wasn't infected in February when I was on the Silhouette for 3 weeks.  I was hoping for a different result.   We have cruise booked for November on the Grandeur of the Seas.  I'm not sure that cruise will go but we would probably go if Royal had a plan that was reasonable.  I'm more concerned about our Caribbean B2B in February 2021.  If Celebrity doesn't have a plan that makes everyone comfortable by February 2021, there may not be a Celerity cruise line

You still could have had it. Not everyone who did has the antibodies. Just like not everyone who has had it is immune.

[Cachecara]

14 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

This is perhaps the most vexing part of the virus from a medical stand point.  Why does it leave some people nearly asymptomatic while putting others in the hospital?  The answer to this question may do way more to serve us in our decision making about travel, or anything really, than a vaccine!  I pray your sister in law makes a full recovery.

From my own understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong please, the quote common cold is another type of corona virus. Think of how many each of us contact a cold. When a cold virus is contracted,We may develop immunity to that cold strain but  that does not mean we have immunity to a variant that has mutated and hits us later. Viruses can easily mutate, change and attack again. 
since it is so new, there will be a need for huge research. It is far more disturbing to me personally, the effect on younger adults who are experiencing severe clotting issues that lead to stroke or amputation. 
my neighbor who succumbed after a month in ICU/ventilator, his wife of the same age (70), only had such a mild case, she could not believe she had covid!  
so my feeling is much study and research is needed before safety or even a little safety can be assured. No one really knows and if our top scientists don’t have the answers yet, personally I am not willing to trust a travel industry venue. 

[Cachecara]

4 hours ago, Tapi said:

Edited May 5, 2020 by Cachecara
Delete

[Cachecara]

Delete

[markeb]

26 minutes ago, Cachecara said:

From my own understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong please, the quote common cold is another type of corona virus. Think of how many each of us contact a cold. When a cold virus is contracted,We may develop immunity to that cold strain but  that does not mean we have immunity to a variant that has mutated and hits us later. Viruses can easily mutate, change and attack again. 
since it is so new, there will be a need for huge research. It is far more disturbing to me personally, the effect on younger adults who are experiencing severe clotting issues that lead to stroke or amputation. 
my neighbor who succumbed after a month in ICU/ventilator, his wife of the same age (70), only had such a mild case, she could not believe she had covid!  
so my feeling is much study and research is needed before safety or even a little safety can be assured. No one really knows and if our top scientists don’t have the answers yet, personally I am not willing to trust a travel industry venue. 

 

Quoting you, but it goes back to @Georgia_Peaches questions that you quoted. 

 

There’s an old military adage that the enemy gets a vote. The greatest plan is still subject to action by the opposition. Two sides, at least. 
 

Host response is probably just as important as the actual virus, and as you say, we don’t have those answers yet. It may be the virus, but it could just as easily be a host factor. Major histocompatability, for instance. Blood type, receptor subtypes that no one ever looked at before. Something about the interaction of the virus with humans in general and specific individuals is different from person to person. Not unique in viral disease, but those differences have been devastating. 
 

I may have anticipated some of this and had hoped to be wrong. But the variety of disease and pathology has been a surprise. And far too involved for CC.
 

It was a crazy idea that caused people to shake their heads on both sides of the aisle, but we’re really still dealing with “unknown unknowns” in many ways. 

 

 

[ECCruise]

13 hours ago, Tapi said:

That’s exactly what I said, but worded in a way that can place that number in its proper perspective.

Yes, you’re right. It’s 70,000 but it’s:

 

70,000 out of 324,000,000

216 out of 1,000,000

0.02% of the population 

 

 That doesn’t mean that we should let our guard down, or not protect yourselves.. But fears about this disease should be proportionate with the threat that it statistically presents. 

Unless the following:

1)  Not one additional person dies from COVID-19 ever, or

2)  The population of the US increases or decreases significantly today, or

3)  Both 1) and 2)

Those stats are worthless beyond the second you wrote them.

Absolutely no one knows how this will end until it does.

[Pegasusridge]

As things stand now, we won’t cruise. We are fortunate enough to live in a rural area and staying at home has not been a real issue for us. Husband home on paid leave, but I’ve lost a fair amount of income as I am a internationally licensed horse show official and our industry is shut down for the foreseeable future. Disappointed but content wait a bit and see how this plays out. 

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

FYI I tested negative for the antibodies, so I wasn't infected in February when I was on the Silhouette for 3 weeks.  I was hoping for a different result.   We have cruise booked for November on the Grandeur of the Seas.  I'm not sure that cruise will go but we would probably go if Royal had a plan that was reasonable.  I'm more concerned about our Caribbean B2B in February 2021.  If Celebrity doesn't have a plan that makes everyone comfortable by February 2021, there may not be a Celerity cruise line

Good news I think.  I am trying to get an antibody test too.  But if I test negative I would still be concerned.  The FDA is really clamping down this week on antibody tests because they have been rushed and are highly inconsistent.  The FDA has given companies 10 days to prove their tests are reliable or they have to pull them from the market.

[Ride-The-Waves]

21 hours ago, ERParadise said:

My wife and I don't have any of the comorbidities and our lungs are in top shape.  We will cruise when it is allowed AND the following:

• No restrictions at any of the ports of call
• No restrictions on the ships (we will NOT cruise if we must wear a mask all the time).

 

We don't want to run scared the rest of our active lives.  If we get COVID (if we have not already had it) the odds are greatly in our favor that even if we get a bad case our bodies will fight it off.  The best example of COVID 19 is to study the 1968 Hong Kong flu which is almost identical in nature.  Many people in the USA and the world died, but society and business did not shut down. 

 

Cruise ships are very dangerous for people with risk factors because viruses like this one spread very quickly.  But even on the ships with thousands of passengers (including the navy ships) the number of people who died is a very small number.  And for cruise ships the demographics during February and March were a substantial majority of people over 60.

 

 

The comparison to navy ships is incorrect.  Navy personnel are a much younger demographic (low 20s) and much healthier and fitter than the average cruiser.  The navy also takes better medical care of their personnel than the average cruiser does for him/herself.

 

Biggest issue is that the current strain is Phase I.  A different strain is expected this Fall and may require a different vaccine (if one is ever produced and certified), similar to the requirement to annually vaccinate against flu.

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, Cachecara said:

From my own understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong please, the quote common cold is another type of corona virus. Think of how many each of us contact a cold. When a cold virus is contracted,We may develop immunity to that cold strain but  that does not mean we have immunity to a variant that has mutated and hits us later. Viruses can easily mutate, change and attack again. 
since it is so new, there will be a need for huge research. It is far more disturbing to me personally, the effect on younger adults who are experiencing severe clotting issues that lead to stroke or amputation. 
my neighbor who succumbed after a month in ICU/ventilator, his wife of the same age (70), only had such a mild case, she could not believe she had covid!  
so my feeling is much study and research is needed before safety or even a little safety can be assured. No one really knows and if our top scientists don’t have the answers yet, personally I am not willing to trust a travel industry venue. 

The common cold is caused by rhinoviruses, followed by coronaviruses, and then a few other viruses thrown into the mix such as adenoviruses.  So humans have been exposed to strains and variations of coronaviruses for eons.  The disheartening thing is that did not make many of us immune to the current SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus.  But perhaps many of us do have pre-esisting and protective immunity to it.  There are a lot of asymptomatic carriers out there.  Time and data will eventually fill in the blanks.  But it suggests that a vaccine may not be 100% effective for everybody.  But very few are.

[Tapi]

1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

Absolutely no one knows how this will end until it does.

And because no one knows for sure what’s going to happen, rampant speculation about what may or may not happen doesn’t accomplish much. All we can do is look at the facts and place them in their proper perspective which is the point that I’m trying to make.