Orlando Ashford needs to resign now!

[Captain Ricky]

53 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Haven't you read the other posts? There are no refunds; they are just holding the money before they go bankrupt. The only way is to involve the credit card company by contesting the charges.

Well, we got a refund, money credited back to our account, and over the last couple of days several other people got refunds. It took just under 60 days for our refund.  Ours was substantial.  It was the third refund we have gotten. The first,  a little over a week ago, was the port fees, the second, a day later, was the amount for pre-paid tours, and this weekend's was for the cruise fare.    If they go bankrupt they will not owe us any money.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Hmmm  - I agree with you partially on this but overall I don’t agree.

 

There were a number of leery people (myself included) on how someone who had no knowledge of cruising and was in HR could take the helm of HAL and steer it properly.

While I will certainly acknowledge that a few of the changes made under his leadership may have been good, many were not IMO and  many not appreciated to say the least. Some even left HAL with less direction as a cruise line than before.

 

The current situation is not an excuse IMO - it’s the icing on the cake that was not well baked.  JMO

JMHO, not directed at you particularly, but  I find it interesting that many of those who fault Ashford's lack of experience in running a cruise line have no experience in running a cruise line.

 

I believe most of the criticism stemmed from too many 4* & 5* Mariners resenting the changes Ashford was making.  

Edited May 23, 2020 by RocketMan275

[Cruising-along]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Haven't you read the other posts? There are no refunds; they are just holding the money before they go bankrupt. The only way is to involve the credit card company by contesting the charges.

 

39 minutes ago, Captain Ricky said:

Well, we got a refund, money credited back to our account, and over the last couple of days several other people got refunds. It took just under 60 days for our refund.  Ours was substantial.  It was the third refund we have gotten. The first,  a little over a week ago, was the port fees, the second, a day later, was the amount for pre-paid tours, and this weekend's was for the cruise fare.    If they go bankrupt they will not owe us any money.

Pretty sure ontheweb was making a dig at the naysayers (and did it well IMO).  

Thank you for letting us know you got your refund -- when was your cruise cancelled?  We're waiting for our refund of port fees, taxes and flight ease, our cruise was April 2 and cancelled in mid-March.

[kazu]

17 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

JMHO, not directed at you particularly, but  I find it interesting that many of those who fault Ashford's lack of experience in running a cruise line have no experience in running a cruise line.

 

I believe most of the criticism stemmed from too many 4* & 5* Mariners resenting the changes Ashford was making.  

 

Of course none of us have experience running a cruise line (or not most of us at least 😉 ). But from my business experience of many years, normally people who were put in the top spot had a clue about the organization, had experienced it and had knowledge of it.  

 

Bolding is mine as personally, as a 5* Mariner I have no problem with what are good changes.  I’m good with change as long as it is for the better 😉  I’ve seen the wonder in new HAL cruisers’ eyes on the Rotterdam and it’s library.  They were re-booking another HAL cruise expecting that on every cruise.  Alas, it wasn’t going to happen on most ships in the fleet now 😞 

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, Cruising-along said:

 

Pretty sure ontheweb was making a dig at the naysayers (and did it well IMO).  

Thank you for letting us know you got your refund -- when was your cruise cancelled?  We're waiting for our refund of port fees, taxes and flight ease, our cruise was April 2 and cancelled in mid-March.

Thank you, you nailed exactly what I was doing.

 

And remember the thread (it might be in the princess board) on how their strategy of not giving refunds was tied into there was definitely a bankruptcy coming as they could not give preferential treatment? I guess that one has also been debunked. They may be much slower than any of us wish, but they are giving refunds.

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Of course none of us have experience running a cruise line (or not most of us at least 😉 ). But from my business experience of many years, normally people who were put in the top spot had a clue about the organization, had experienced it and had knowledge of it.  

 

Bolding is mine as personally, as a 5* Mariner I have no problem with what are good changes.  I’m good with change as long as it is for the better 😉  I’ve seen the wonder in new HAL cruisers’ eyes on the Rotterdam and it’s library.  They were re-booking another HAL cruise expecting that on every cruise.  Alas, it wasn’t going to happen on most ships in the fleet now 😞 

The library is exactly my point.  The library is an anachronism.  Amazing that 4* & 5* mariners resort to condemning the removal of the library as Ashford's greatest blunder.  I can understand how that group fell in love with cruising many, many years ago.  They see the things they loved being replaced and can only see that as a mistake.  The library is a symbol that demonstrates how that group is wedded to the past.  HAL must change to survive.  

[kazu]

31 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The library is exactly my point.  The library is an anachronism.  Amazing that 4* & 5* mariners resort to condemning the removal of the library as Ashford's greatest blunder.  I can understand how that group fell in love with cruising many, many years ago.  They see the things they loved being replaced and can only see that as a mistake.  The library is a symbol that demonstrates how that group is wedded to the past.  HAL must change to survive.  

 

There is a lot more to the library on the Rotterdam and several other ships than just books.  As I said the newbies to HAL were enchanted with it.  I was NOT speaking of 4 and 5* Mariners.

 

The cruise I am talking about is not many, many years ago.  It is a couple of years ago.  

 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree it seems. 😉 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

The library is exactly my point.  The library is an anachronism.  Amazing that 4* & 5* mariners resort to condemning the removal of the library as Ashford's greatest blunder.  I can understand how that group fell in love with cruising many, many years ago.  They see the things they loved being replaced and can only see that as a mistake.  The library is a symbol that demonstrates how that group is wedded to the past.  HAL must change to survive.  

The library is only an anachronism on a ship/ itinerary where WIFI is fast, cheap, and reliable. Maybe in the Caribbean. On HAL ships to farther destinations, this isn’t the case. 
Aside from the other things the library has to offer, reading a good book in a comfortable leather armchair is much more relaxing than sitting on a hard chair trying to send the same email for the tenth time.

The library is one of the things that made me a diehard HAL fan on our first HAL cruise four years ago.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

The library is only an anachronism on a ship/ itinerary where WIFI is fast, cheap, and reliable. Maybe in the Caribbean. On HAL ships to farther destinations, this isn’t the case. 
Aside from the other things the library has to offer, reading a good book in a comfortable leather armchair is much more relaxing than sitting on a hard chair trying to send the same email for the tenth time.

The library is one of the things that made me a diehard HAL fan on our first HAL cruise four years ago.

I would never rely upon the ship's library or upon having wifi access.  I usually bring eight books for a seven day cruise.  No way I would find that many books in the ship's library that would interest me.  Get a kindle and load it before you even leave home.  Amazon Unlimited is a flat $9.99 per month. 

The problem with those comfortable armchair in the Crows Nest was all the elderly using them for their mid-morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, naps.  The place sounded like a sawmill with all the snoring.  In fact, I'm glad the coffee bar is now in the Crow's Nest.  The extra noise drives the nappers away.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

 

There is a lot more to the library on the Rotterdam and several other ships than just books.  As I said the newbies to HAL were enchanted with it.  I was NOT speaking of 4 and 5* Mariners.

 

The cruise I am talking about is not many, many years ago.  It is a couple of years ago.  

 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree it seems. 😉 

You miss my point.  If the biggest criticism levelled at Ashford is removing the library, then one must conclude that his mistakes were minor.

 

 

[Sir PMP]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

You miss my point.  If the biggest criticism levelled at Ashford is removing the library, then one must conclude that his mistakes were minor.

 

 

Yes, they were so minor, that's why he's gone...

[RocketMan275]

15 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Yes, they were so minor, that's why he's gone...

Do you believe Ashford was fired because he removed the library?

 

Do you believe that the libraries will be restored now that Ashford is gone?

 

The bottom line is this:  the 4* &  5* mariners hated Ashford because they thought he was modernizing Holland, it would no longer be the Holland of the 1990's.

Edited May 24, 2020 by RocketMan275

[kazu]

41 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You miss my point.  If the biggest criticism levelled at Ashford is removing the library, then one must conclude that his mistakes were minor.

 

 

 

I NEVER said that this was the biggest criticism at all.  Sheesh.

 

27 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

The bottom line is this:  the 4* &  5* mariners hated Ashford because they thought he was modernizing Holland, it would no longer be the Holland of the 1990's.

 

WOW! You have made a huge general statement and assumption on all 4 and 5* Mariners which is totally uncalled for and invalidated 🙄

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I NEVER said that this was the biggest criticism at all.  Sheesh.

 

 

WOW! You have made a huge general statement and assumption on all 4 and 5* Mariners which is totally uncalled for and invalidated 🙄

Why then is it that the most commonly cited reason to fire Ashford is the library?

Why then is it that the most vocal of Ashford's critics are 4* & 5* Mariners?

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The library is a symbol that demonstrates how that group is wedded to the past.  HAL must change to survive.  

 

Indeed -- I see the long, long laundry list of items that people added to the thread on "what should a new CEO bring to HAL".  It basically amounts to this: bring back everything that HAL used to do, and don't do anything new. That is NOT a recipe for HAL's survival. 

 

I have been cruising as long or longer than most people on these board, but I am not (yet) in an older demographic. Things really must evolve -- but they can evolve in a way that is still pleasant. Different doesn't always have to equal bad, and people need to be able to accept some change.

 

I have sailed with three cruise lines that no longer exist and one that is in danger of not existing longer.  All had things to recommend them but all of them eventually either were absorbed into a different line or ceased operating.  For two of them in particular I would give a lot to have them still be cruising -- EVEN IF they were operating 'with changes'. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

Aside from the other things the library has to offer, reading a good book in a comfortable leather armchair is much more relaxing than sitting on a hard chair trying to send the same email for the tenth time.

 

The library is one of the things that made me a diehard HAL fan on our first HAL cruise four years ago.

 

Why do the two things have to go together? Can't there be a place with comfortable chairs to sit and read (or do other things) that is NOT in a room with shelves of books?

 

 

 

[S&B]

I don't post much on the HAL Cruise Critic board but I have to say that I am getting offended by the comments made about the Crow's Nest.   And there have been several lately.   Who cares if I or anybody else wants to go to the Crow's Nest and relax and watch the ocean.  And who knows maybe I will fall asleep.   There is a whole ship to explore if you don't like it.

We do not like sea days as we are very active senior citizens, on our port days we are out early and are one of the last ones to re-board the ship.   After walking for 6 hours or so in a port we need to chill out and maybe it will be in the Crow's Nest.  (The last two cruises we have had an inside cabin, one cruise was 56 days)

 

Oh, by the way, the younger generation might become older some day and want to have a nice place to enjoy themselves.

And, yes, we are one of those 4 star people.  

[REOVA]

18 hours ago, Captain Ricky said:

Well, we got a refund, money credited back to our account, and over the last couple of days several other people got refunds. It took just under 60 days for our refund.  Ours was substantial.  It was the third refund we have gotten. The first,  a little over a week ago, was the port fees, the second, a day later, was the amount for pre-paid tours, and this weekend's was for the cruise fare.    If they go bankrupt they will not owe us any money.

Rich, Did you get travel/flight reimbursed? (and don't forget still need our luggage back after they get to Malaysia. )

[Horizon chaser 1957]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

Why do the two things have to go together? Can't there be a place with comfortable chairs to sit and read (or do other things) that is NOT in a room with shelves of books?

 

 

 

You may have just put your finger on a crucial point. If the comfortable lounges hadn’t been replaced with ones resembling a dental office waiting room, a reduction in reading material would probably have slipped on by with less notice.

And while all things change and evolve, gleaming and uncomfortable Internet cafes are a complete waste of space when they don’t include that key ingredient - functional internet!

If a new president brought functional, affordable internet to the table, it would be a valuable contribution!

Edited May 24, 2020 by Horizon chaser 1957

[cruisemom42]

9 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

 

If a new president brought functional, affordable internet to the table, it would be a valuable contribution!

 

And that is a point we can completely agree on. 

[Captain Ricky]

2 hours ago, REOVA said:

Rich, Did you get travel/flight reimbursed? (and don't forget still need our luggage back after they get to Malaysia. )

We did not apply for the travel/flight because we had First Class tickets from FLL to Sitka which Alaska Airlines refunded promptly.  The amount refunded was actually slightly more than we paid economy for Emirates from Perth to Sitka.  (The cost from Seattle to Sitka was much higher in May than it was in March, that was the difference, we didn't believe it at first.)  From reading this we are thinking of putting in for the hotel, meals and taxi in Perth.  

[Captain Ricky]

17 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

You may have just put your finger on a crucial point. If the comfortable lounges hadn’t been replaced with ones resembling a dental office waiting room, a reduction in reading material would probably have slipped on by with less notice.

And while all things change and evolve, gleaming and uncomfortable Internet cafes are a complete waste of space when they don’t include that key ingredient - functional internet!

If a new president brought functional, affordable internet to the table, it would be a valuable contribution!

We didn't start cruising until 2015 so I don't know much about the 'old" HAL but I do care about comfortable chairs.  The Library has comfortable chairs.  Some in the Crow's Nest are as well, although I find the barrel chairs do not provide the lumbar support I need.  I love the library for that reason.  But most of the new chairs are terrible.  I like the idea of the music walk that has been added.  I also like the teams from destinations,  I don't know if that is an Orlando innovation or not. I am concerned about the elimination of the self service laundry, although I am about to tip over to a star level so that may not concern me for long.  The fact that self service laundry did not come up in the conversation leads me to believe that the posters are mostly 4 or 5 star.  I don't like the loss of location guides on most cruises.  They were a big help and I have written asking that they come back.   I don't know if Orlando should have gone or not.  But I do hope that HAL listens to our plea for comfortable chairs and keeping the washing machines, and restoring location guides.

.  

[rkacruiser]

47 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

f a new president brought functional, affordable internet to the table, it would be a valuable contribution!

 

Yes.  That would be a valuable contribution.

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The problem with those comfortable armchair in the Crows Nest was all the elderly using them for their mid-morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, naps.  The place sounded like a sawmill with all the snoring. 

 

Amazing!  You have never nodded off for a bit during a "down time" of your day?

 

As for only "the elderly" being responsible, I have observed many who were much younger than me nodding off.

[Captain Ricky]

3 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Amazing!  You have never nodded off for a bit during a "down time" of your day?

 

As for only "the elderly" being responsible, I have observed many who were much younger than me nodding off.

The main problem is really people putting things on the chairs and going to get lunch making me sit in one of the barrel chairs.  Don't get me started on internet.  If Orlando had delivered on that all would probably beforgiven.  

[rkacruiser]

4 minutes ago, Captain Ricky said:

The main problem is really people putting things on the chairs and going to get lunch making me sit in one of the barrel chairs.

 

That is not an Orlando Ashford caused problem.  Chair hogs have been with us on many cruise lines for a very long time.