Orlando Ashford needs to resign now!

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, Captain Ricky said:

And what an opportunity for historic naming, Titanic, Lusitania, Prinsendam!

 

Titanic II?  Lusitania II?  I think not.  Prinsendam III?  OK.  

 

Why?  Prinsendam I suffered no loss of life.  Not so much with Titanic and Lusitania.

[Captain Ricky]

41 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Titanic II?  Lusitania II?  I think not.  Prinsendam III?  OK.  

 

Why?  Prinsendam I suffered no loss of life.  Not so much with Titanic and Lusitania.

I was surprised when Prinsendam resurfaced, so to speak.  I was a reporter in SE Alaska and covered that story so when the name was recycled I had to sail on her, and have enjoyed several cruises before she was sold off.  OK so Nieuw Titanic, Neiuw Lucy and Prinsendam III. 

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

........................................................

 

Does anyone remember HAL's previous leader?  Mr. Stein Kruse.  As far as I know, he is still the leader of the HAL/Princess/Seabourn Group (maybe including some P&O brands as well).  ....................................

 

 

The Holland America Group is one of the nine "cruise brands" under the umbrella of the Carnival Corporation & plc. The HAL Group was formed on December 1, 2013 and Stein Kruse, before that date, president and CEO of Holland America Line, became its Chief Executive Officer and is still in that position as we speak. The HAL Croup (currently 40 cruise ships) consists of:

 

Holland America Line - 14 ships + 1 future

Seabourn Cruise Line - 5 ships + 2 future

Princess Cruises - 18 ships (2 leaving) + 4 future

P&O Australia - 3 ships (2 leaving) + 2 future 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Copper10-8

[rafinmd]

37 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

The Holland America Group is one of the nine "cruise brands" under the umbrella of the Carnival Corporation & plc. The HAL Group was formed on December 1, 2013 and Stein Kruse, before that date, president and CEO of Holland America Line, became its Chief Executive Officer and is still in that position as we speak. The HAL Croup (currently 40 cruise ships) consists of:

 

Holland America Line - 14 ships + 1 future

Seabourn Cruise Line - 5 ships + 2 future

Princess Cruises - 18 ships (2 leaving) + 4 future

P&O Australia - 3 ships (2 leaving) + 2 future

Any idea how Cunard fits into the picture.  When I was called about my QM2 reimbursement request the CallerID was Princess Cruises.  Could they be related in the UK but not the US?

 

Roy

 

[bennybear]

6 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

Not a bad idea, Cunard and Hal merger...

 

But just  think of the threads on dress codes, 😂

[Copper10-8]

52 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Any idea how Cunard fits into the picture.  When I was called about my QM2 reimbursement request the CallerID was Princess Cruises.  Could they be related in the UK but not the US?

 

Roy

 

 

Cunard, as well as P&O Cruises, both based out of Southampton, England, are part of Carnival Corp & plc's "Carnival United Kingdom" cruise brand. Before becoming part of the Carnival Corporation plcs (and eventually in 2013, Holland America Group) Princess Cruises was part of the P&O Princess Cruises plc consisting of:

 

P&O Cruises

Princess Cruises

P&O Australia

A'Rosa Cruises (defunct as far as cruise ships; now only German river cruises)

AIDA Cruises &

Ocean Village Cruises (defunct)

 

So, with the acquisition by the Carnival Group in 2003, P&O (UK) and Princess (USA) were essentially split up from each other

 

Stay safe Roy! 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Copper10-8

[fatcat04]

5 minutes ago, bennybear said:

 

But just  think of the threads on dress codes, 😂

Bathrobes in the Lido will be the least of our worries 😛

[Himself]

Copper 10/8 is the most knowledgeable contributor to this board.  I have learned much from his faithful posts. He is a real blessing to this forum. 

[kelmac]

37 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Any idea how Cunard fits into the picture.  When I was called about my QM2 reimbursement request the CallerID was Princess Cruises.  Could they be related in the UK but not the US?

 

Roy

 

My wife and I have spent 109 days on Cunard ships and 103 days on HAL ships.  I've always thought that Cunard is "Holland America on Steroids" -- they are very similar in many ways.  The Queen Victoria and the Queen Elizabeth are just Vista Class ships.  They both share the same historical roots and cater to similar clientele.  Holland Cunard Line.  

 

PS --never a fan of Princess

 

Maybe?

[bennybear]

While I enjoyed Cunard I didn’t like the class system for dining.  Unless you were in the grills the food in the MDR doesn’t hold a candle to HAL.  I much prefer the more egalitarian approach on HAL  and we have sailed in all cabin types up to and including a Neptune.  But I do love their afternoon teas!  

[DeeDee Groff]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

Copper 10/8 is the most knowledgeable contributor to this board.  I have learned much from his faithful posts. He is a real blessing to this forum. 

Amen!

[Sir PMP]

5 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Wait, there's more: 😉

 

Queen Wilhelmina

Queen Emma

Queen Sophie

And King John I...

[cruisemom42]

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Titanic II?  Lusitania II?  I think not.  Prinsendam III?  OK.  

 

Why?  Prinsendam I suffered no loss of life.  Not so much with Titanic and Lusitania.

 

A slightly OT question -- is there a maritime tradition that a ship's name is not reused if she sank with (or even without) loss of life?

 

[DFD1]

HAL reused the name Prinsendam after the sinking of the previous Prinsendam in the Bay of Alaska. Fortunately and thanks to heroic efforts of the crew and coast guard....and a near-by freighter, no one was killed.

[avian777]

15 hours ago, Himself said:

Orlando did not cause the current mess.  Fear and panic caused it!

 

While Mr Ashford did not cause the current mess, a fairly compelling argument can be made that he has totally mishandled HAL's response to it.

[RocketMan275]

23 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

Interesting that the OP thinks that Mr Ashfords most important job at this point is to ensure that they get a personal email explaining the exact date they will receive a refund.  I guess caring for the ships and their crews that are scattered around the World, dealing with the different countries varying requirements for docking and ensuring that supplies are sent to the right place after docking is refused, ensuring that all his employees are paid on time, deciding which cruises still need to be cancelled and which need to be modified for 2020 and 2021 and how to get that information to the public are all just minor concerns of his.

I saw him in action in Cambodia in mid February when he flew there to take charge of the passengers and crew of the Westerdam.  He dealt with American and foreign embassy personnel and brought personnel to book individual flights (paid for by HAL) that got us all home in about a week, while meeting with us all twice a day to give us the latest updates.  IMHO, Mr. Ashford has been doing an excellent job for his cruise line under difficult and changing World wide conditions.

I enjoy reading all the comments on how to run a cruise line from those who may never even owned a boat.

[RocketMan275]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:43 AM, nyceve said:

If you love Holland America as much as most of us do.  Then, it seems to me, that you may agree that HAL needs new leadership at the top.

 

Mr. Ashford has mishandled this crisis in the most deplorable way possible. Silence.

You do realize that every mass market cruise line forum on this site is filled with similar complaints.  That should tell you that this isn't a problem unique to Holland or to Ashford.

 

I suspect that your emails aren't the biggest problem on Ashford's plate.

Edited May 10, 2020 by RocketMan275

[Captain Ricky]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A slightly OT question -- is there a maritime tradition that a ship's name is not reused if she sank with (or even without) loss of life?

 

I asked HAL people on Prinsendam and they told me that since there was no loss of life they could reuse the name.  It was an amazing story.  I covered the story as a reporter in 1980.  On the 35th anniversary I attended the Prinsendam Rescue Association reunion at the Seattle Coast Guard base, interviewed people involved and produced a radio documentary about the rescue.  If you are interested you can click on the link below.

 

https://www.kcaw.org/2016/10/11/smoke-on-the-water-the-sinking-of-the-prinsendam/

 

My question is if they will retire the name Zaandam for a while.

[Captain Ricky]

12 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

And King John I...

Richard III

[Nymich]

15 hours ago, Himself said:

Copper 10/8 is the most knowledgeable contributor to this board.  I have learned much from his faithful posts. He is a real blessing to this forum. 

I nominate him to take Ashford's job.

[tommui987]

On 5/9/2020 at 5:43 AM, nyceve said:

If you love Holland America as much as most of us do.  Then, it seems to me, that you may agree that HAL needs new leadership at the top.

 

Mr. Ashford has mishandled this crisis in the most deplorable way possible. Silence.

 

I have not received a single email or any communication from HAL since cancelling my B2B cruise on March 9!  The only communication I have had are rote form emails (which I have seen all over the internet sent to others), responding to my pleas for information, that they cannot commit to anything in terms of our refunds.  This is not how a skilled leader handles a huge crisis. 

 

Mr. Ashford is the wrong person for this job.

 

Can you imagine Mr. Ashford leading HAL through this protracted crisis, when he can't even get emails sent to those of us owed huge refunds. He has demonstrated by his atrocious mishandling of the refunds to loyal customers, that he is NOT the person to oversee this company now or in the future.

 

He also owes every one of us a public apology.

 

Would "mishandling" apply to our political leadership as well? How far up or down should we blame?

[Roz]

I had reservations about Mr. Ashford before this virus crisis.  IMO he's not done better or worse than the other cruise line CEOs.  My issues with him revolve around his total lack of prior experience in the cruise business and the hospitality business in general.  

[Copper10-8]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A slightly OT question -- is there a maritime tradition that a ship's name is not reused if she sank with (or even without) loss of life?

 

 

Besides the infamous Prinsendam I (a good read of her sinking in the Gulf of Alaska with no lives lost can be found in "Burning Cold" by H. Paul Jeffers) some likewise events, purely for HAL trivia purposes, so there does not appear to be a maritime tradition that prevents ships being christened under the same name of their predecessor which sank, etc.:

 

Maasdam I, on 24 October 1884, while underway from Rotterdam to New York, caught fire which resulted in all passengers and crew having to abandon her. Maasdam I subsequently sank in the Atlantic Ocean.

 

Maasdam III while being operated by the British Ministry of War Transport, on 26 June 1941 while sailing from Halifax, NS to Liverpool, England, was attacked and torpedoed by the German Kriegsmarine (Navy) sub U-564. She sank as a result of this attack with two loss of life among her crew.

 

Rotterdam I, on 26 September, 1883 ran aground on the Zeehondenbank (Sealbank) off Schouwen in the Dutch Province of Zeeland. The ship was subsequently abandoned, broke in two parts on 12 October of that year, and went down with the fishes.

 

Statendam III, while laid up in Rotterdam during the German invasion of the Netherlands in May 1940, was repeatedly hit by bombs as well as caught in a crossfire. For three days, the ship burned out of control with the only two items salvageable, those being her ship’s bell and the Dutch flag that flew from her stern. She was scrapped in August of the following year.
 

Veendam I, on 06 February 1898, while underway from Rotterdam to New York, struck a submerged wreck which resulted in a broken propellor shaft and flooding of the vessel. Passengers and crew abandoned ship, were rescued by the American steamer St. Louis, and brought the New York City. Veendam I sank the following day on 07 February 1898 

Zaandam II, while being operated by the British Ministry of War Transport and sailing between Cape Town, South Africa and New York City, on 02 November 1942, was torpedoed by the German Kriegsmarine (Navy) U-boat U-174, some 300 miles off the coast of Brazil and sank, tragically with 135 of her occupants killed or missing at sea. There were 169 survivors.

 

Zuiderdam I was launched from the Wilton-Feijenoord shipyard in Schiedam for outfitting in 1941. However, on 28 August 1941, she was damaged and capsized during a British air raid. The German occupiers raised her hull but later sunk her again to block the port of Rotterdam to allied forces. She was raised once again after World War Two, but never completed.

[trident]

I have read the insider version of what happened on the Prinsendam I, the book is called "The' Prinsendam' Disaster, an Officer's Account" by Mathieu J. Oosterwijk.  I found it in a maritime book store in Amsterdam in 2019.  It was originally published in Dutch but was able to order it in English.  It is a fascinating account of the disaster.

[Despegue]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:52 PM, Copper10-8 said:

 

Almost correct.

it must be RED Star Line, Belgium’s Transatlantic Line, absorbed by HAL at one point 😉 

 

seriously though, we can complain about refunds, late or non-existing communication etc etc. But do realize that at the moment, thousands of HAL employees and Crewmembers are without salaries, at home facing a highly uncertain future for them and their families .

Maybe we should have a thought for them iso. Complaining that an email is not forthcoming immediately.