Wondering what other cruisers think

[eclue]

33 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

We are having to take a Covid-19 PCR test 72 hours before ARRIVAL in Hawaii in August, which must be negative, to avoid the 14 day quarantine for visitors and possibly returning residents.  The fastest turn around time we have found for this testing is 48 to 72 hours if we are lucky.  Most places say it usually takes 3 to 4 days and sometimes up to a week, so we are hoping as Hawaii works out the new travel requirements that they might say you have to have a test within 72 hours of arrival and quarantine until results, negative,  are available.  Stay tuned....

Good info....my sister and I are hoping to fly to Maui in October......who knows what will happen by then.

 

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, eclue said:

Good info....my sister and I are hoping to fly to Maui in October......who knows what will happen by then.

 

 

The new travel requirements are going into effect August 1, 2020 and are still being finalized but the requirement of a negative PCR test prior to arrival is definite to avoid the 14 day quarantine.  As you may know,  Hawaii strictly enforces the quarantine with a fine up to $5000 USD and a year in jail and the locals have no problem turning those in who they see breaking it.  Also the airlines just added many direct flights in August to all of the islands starting in August and prices went up considerably too.  When you land the lines can be long because paperwork has to be turned in,  your place you are staying has to be verified with a call and also your cellphone number is checked to make sure it is a working number.

Edited July 5, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[1965]

21 hours ago, eclue said:

Well stated and I think they all live in Texas......these idiots here just cannot grasp the importance of public health...it is all an invasion of their personal rights or so they say....my mantra is " Wear a Mask"......Hope we can mitigate this virus.

 

I agree! And I'm a Texan. I am mad & sad about the situation here. I'm also embarrassed. My DH & I wear masks & practice social distancing when we must go out. There are others who do the same. But the majority are behaving selfishly & irresponsibly. 😭😡

[PescadoAmarillo]

We are still booked to go to Hawaii for a month in December, and I am hoping it will work out, but I have yet to find any place near where we live where people have gotten tests results back in less than a week. I don’t see how we’ll ever get it done in 72 hours. But I commend Hawaii on their tough stance. In most of the rest of the US, it’s madness. 

[Hlitner]

8 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

We are still booked to go to Hawaii for a month in December, and I am hoping it will work out, but I have yet to find any place near where we live where people have gotten tests results back in less than a week. I don’t see how we’ll ever get it done in 72 hours. But I commend Hawaii on their tough stance. In most of the rest of the US, it’s madness. 

Their tough stance comes with a big price.  The last time I looked they had a 22.5% Unemployment rate which ranks them among the top three in the nation.  To make matters worse, Hawaii's government seems to have "issues" and there are more than 70,000 souls waiting for some kind of unemployment benefit.

 

Hank

[caribill]

48 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Their tough stance comes with a big price.  The last time I looked they had a 22.5% Unemployment rate which ranks them among the top three in the nation.  To make matters worse, Hawaii's government seems to have "issues" and there are more than 70,000 souls waiting for some kind of unemployment benefit.

 

 

But at least they are alive and not being infected by visitors from outside the state.

[cruising deacon]

We have only two cruises currently scheduled in 2021, cancelled 2 in 2020.  The first one in 2021 is in January, I would say there is a 2% chance we will go on it.  Either it won't even sail or we will cancel before final payment is due, the Princess 'cruise with confidence' policy doesn't instill any confidence for me to trust them with any more of my $.  I will double the chances for the May cruise, but as you can see it is a 25 to 1 shot of also being cancelled (by Princess or us).  I think we are done with cruising for at least the next couple of years, but probably forever. It sounds like I can enjoy myself far more and spend less to take other forms of vacations that we like, than to TAKE A BIG CHANCE on cruising again.

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

But at least they are alive and not being infected by visitors from outside the state.

 

You are so correct and their approach is no different then all of the other countries that have successfully applied the guidelines that have been suggested to curb COVID-19.  Hawaii has had approximately 1000 cases and 19 deaths since COVID started.  The opening up of tourism August 1 coincides with the end of stimulus money but their unemployment numbers will drop dramtically in August and the airlines would not be putting so many more flights on if they thought there was not the demand.  

 

I think it is a wise idea to require a negative COVID - 19 PCR test before arrival to help possibly keep the COVID rate low.  However, on the mainland the "helter skelter - everything is OK" approach continues and the numbers keep climbing.....and climbing.....and climbing.....and climbing.....

[caribill]

40 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

 

 

I think it is a wise idea to require a negative COVID - 19 PCR test before arrival to help possibly keep the COVID rate low.  However, on the mainland the "helter skelter - everything is OK" approach continues and the numbers keep climbing.....and climbing.....and climbing.....and climbing.....

 

The problem is that it is almost impossible in most of the country to have a test 72 hours before arrival and have the results back within those 72 hours.  How many people would be willing to start their journey with the hope that a negative result would be available by the time they land in Hawaii?

 

Even major league baseball with all their clout cannot get results back in a timely manner and has called off training for some teams until results do come back.

[WAMarathoner]

On 7/6/2020 at 8:01 AM, Hlitner said:

Their tough stance comes with a big price.  The last time I looked they had a 22.5% Unemployment rate which ranks them among the top three in the nation.  To make matters worse, Hawaii's government seems to have "issues" and there are more than 70,000 souls waiting for some kind of unemployment benefit.

 

Hank

37% now (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/04/16/unemployment-hawaii-tops-coronavirus-shutdown-continues/)

and a 20% proposed pay cut for workers who are taxpayer-funded.

[Hlitner]

22 minutes ago, WAMarathoner said:

37% now (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/04/16/unemployment-hawaii-tops-coronavirus-shutdown-continues/)

and a 20% proposed pay cut for workers who are taxpayer-funded.

Some States  and countries think they can somehow isolate themselves from COVID-19.  Time will tell if they are correct of if they are simply delaying things.   I just saw on the news that 14 Hawaiian Air attendants tested positive today!  Hawaii has done a great job minimizing virus cases, but so had some other States that have now become hot zones.   This virus has spread to over 100 countries and keeps getting uglier by the day.  

 

So there is a question that many people choose not to face.  What price are we willing to pay to save our economy?  or, are we willing to destroy our entire economy in the name of COVID-19?  In theory we could all live in our basements, avoid going out, and spend then next few years sheltering in place.   But to make that work we would all need to shelter in place until their is a safe/effective vaccine which could take years or might not ever happen.  Then what?   I have not met anyone who has the answers to the tough questions.  What we are now seeing in the USA is somewhat of a revolt where many folks (especially those under 40) have said, enough is enough, and they have chosen to live their lives and take their chances with COVID-19.  Many think those folks are simply nutz or in denial.  But maybe those of us who are very cautious are the ones in denial.   Don't know.

 

Hank

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Some States  and countries think they can somehow isolate themselves from COVID-19.  Time will tell if they are correct of if they are simply delaying things.   I just saw on the news that 14 Hawaiian Air attendants tested positive today!  Hawaii has done a great job minimizing virus cases, but so had some other States that have now become hot zones.   This virus has spread to over 100 countries and keeps getting uglier by the day.  

 

So there is a question that many people choose not to face.  What price are we willing to pay to save our economy?  or, are we willing to destroy our entire economy in the name of COVID-19?  In theory we could all live in our basements, avoid going out, and spend then next few years sheltering in place.   But to make that work we would all need to shelter in place until their is a safe/effective vaccine which could take years or might not ever happen.  Then what?   I have not met anyone who has the answers to the tough questions.  What we are now seeing in the USA is somewhat of a revolt where many folks (especially those under 40) have said, enough is enough, and they have chosen to live their lives and take their chances with COVID-19.  Many think those folks are simply nutz or in denial.  But maybe those of us who are very cautious are the ones in denial.   Don't know.

 

Hank

Those were fight attendants in training at a school not actually flying on Hawaiian Airlines.... the mainland economy is in a mess and headed for real trouble... all you have to do is look at Florida, Georgia, Texas, Arizona and California and you have your answer... if you read the Hawaii blogs the  majority of opinions are that safety is more important then money...and they are actually enjoying the islands without tourists... and as you may be aware their is a trend in Europe to start restricting tourist because they impact living in a negative way.... only time will tell which approaches were correct....

[PescadoAmarillo]

Talking with a friend today, she said that she could never have imagined in March we’d still be mostly isolating in July. And it made me wonder if a year from now we’ll be saying that we would never have imagined we’d be doing this for over a year. There’s no reason to believe that won’t be the case. We’re in far worse shape now than we were in March, and are hanging our hopes on a vaccine that may not ever be developed and distributed or a herd immunity that it appears will never actually happen.  

[Doubt It]

There is also the not so little issue of the test itself.  If states and provinces are using the blood antibody test - then there will be a huge increase in numbers like what has happened in Florida. Florida started using this test in mid May and that was precisely when their numbers increased. 

 

Problem is this test produces positive results for more than CV19 - it will produce positive numbers if a person was exposed to SARS, MERS, H1N1 and 3 of the most common cold viruses.

 

Meaning - the number of CV19 cases will be overstated.

 

Further, there has never been a vaccine developed for the coronovirus family.

 

This little factoids are being kept hidden by the left wing media, in particular.

 

With this information, my concerns about the # of people who Actually have the CV19, drops.

 

People need to not automatically believe what they are being told by the "authorities and experts" and do some significant fact checking on their own. As I was taught in the past, consider the "sources" background, funding etc to determine what is the real agenda.

Critical thought seems to be taking a nose dive these days.

[Grego]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:08 PM, Denmal said:

We have a 14 day circle the Caribbean scheduled for February 21st, 2021.   I am wondering what everyone's opinion is on whether this cruise will actually happen or will be cancelled ? 

I know some of the islands are opening BUT with major restrictions.  For example, Aruba is opening but with the following restrictions below

I am wondering with these types of restrictions, HOW the heck the cruise ships are going to handle them if they continue through next year.

 

Opinions .. GO..

 

========================

Requirements for entry in Aruba
– Mandatory ED card* to be filled in – this will be available online as of June 25th at www.edcardaruba.aw
– Self health declaration form to be submitted 72 hours prior to travel
– Visitors are encouraged to take a COVID-19 test (PCR) before traveling (in the US CVS and Rite-Aid do offer these tests) and to upload the test results to a new digital platform that the Aruba authorities are setting up or to bring their test proof with them. Alternatively visitors will need to pre-pay for a mandatory test upon arrival in Aruba (price initially indicated at US$75)
– Must have COVID-19 medical insurance coverage. (Aruba has arranged for insurance to be provided by insurance companies based in Aruba). An indication of the insurance cost was given by the Minister of Tourism and this was US$15 per insured person per day. It is also possible for a visitor to take out their own specific COVID-19 insurance coverage.
– Must consent to cooperate with all Aruba’s COVID-19 procedures and instructions including testing (if applicable), quarantine etc.
– Must wear a mask on the flight to Aruba (not required while vacationing on the island but recommended nonetheless where social distancing is more of a challenge).

Why would you ask if a particular cruise will happen or not to folks that have no clue as to what will happen.  Not even the cruise line management know for certain what is going to happen and when.

You have booked a voyage, which happens to be the one that our cousins have booked, and we are happy to sit back and hope that this voyage will happen and our bookings for this November 21st and December 29th happen as well and we will continue to plan for that. 

We have "backup" bookings for next February just in case, but the only thing we know for certain is that there are calendar decision points that will indicate what will happen and when.  The first one is the end of July so keep your fingers crossed and think positive.

[wowzz]

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

What price are we willing to pay to save our economy?  or, are we willing to destroy our entire economy in the name of COVID-19?

Which is the question now being asked in New Zealand,  which has been remarkably successful in limiting the number of CV19 cases, by effectively sealing its borders. However, as a consequence,  the tourist industry, which is of major importance to the  economy of the  country, has basically imploded. Continuing closure of the borders will see a significant reduction in tax revenues leading to future deterioration of health care, with the consequence that more deaths may occur than would have been caused by CV19.

There are no easy answers, but sometimes a sense of perspective is needed. Trying to control the spread of the disease rather than totally stopping it in its tracks might be a better response.

[UnorigionalName]

19 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So there is a question that many people choose not to face.  What price are we willing to pay to save our economy?  or, are we willing to destroy our entire economy in the name of COVID-19?

 

This is a false dichotomy.  Look at Sweden. then compare to other nordic countries.

 

Then compare to HK, Taiwan, Vietnam, Singapore.

 

It's going to end up that the countries that controlled the virus the best will end up as the ones that have the least decrease in their economies.

 

God help us if it turns out there are long term consequences to getting infected.  Can you imagine if it's like SARS and 40% of the recovered end up with chronic fatigue syndrome?  Or permanent lung damage? who is going to make up for the loss in future productivity for the rest of their lives.

 

There will be a vaccine, countries that are currently controlling it will see the light of day, and maybe in the future once again people will value good governance.

[Babr]

Ah! Good governance. That seems a long way off.

 

I guess I am just overwhelmed by living through the current spike in cases and today listening to the national press briefing about school opening. The CDC issued guidelines. The administration says the guidelines must not be too onerous. Schools must open under threat of losing federal funding.

 

We’ve seen what opening the economy too soon has done to our area. How do we go forward like that?

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

It's going to end up that the countries that controlled the virus the best will end up as the ones that have the least decrease in their economies.

Surely that depends on how you define "the best".

If you lock down a whole country for 6 months,  and by so doing destroy the economy and future health care of the inhabitants, is that better than accepting a limited number of deaths,  but at the same time protecting the economy.

There is no right or wrong answer, but to assume that the lowest possible deaths from CV19 is the "best " result is to take a blinkered approach to the wider picture.

[PrincessLuver]

3 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

This is a false dichotomy.  Look at Sweden. then compare to other nordic countries.

 

Then compare to HK, Taiwan, Vietnam, Singapore.

 

It's going to end up that the countries that controlled the virus the best will end up as the ones that have the least decrease in their economies.

 

God help us if it turns out there are long term consequences to getting infected.  Can you imagine if it's like SARS and 40% of the recovered end up with chronic fatigue syndrome?  Or permanent lung damage? who is going to make up for the loss in future productivity for the rest of their lives.

 

There will be a vaccine, countries that are currently controlling it will see the light of day, and maybe in the future once again people will value good governance.

 

Agree.....this is being proven everywhere that countries who took the virus SERIOUSLY (not a little old flu bug) have broken and suppressed the spread of COVID by locking down, masking, hygiene, social distancing and tracing and then they were able to reopen and are now approaching normal again.  

 

The USA is floundering and failing with all of the COVID deniers spouting their lame theories about what should be done.  All you have to do is watch what happens when you ignore science and open things up too fast such as Florida, Georgia, Texas and Arizona now all know too well.....we are going to have a total wreck of an economy and have no one to blame but ourselves.....the predictions are dire for how many people are going to die by this disease by the end of the year because of ignorance and arrogance.....no way the cruise lines can recover any time soon the way things are going in the US.....

Edited July 8, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[PrincessLuver]

19 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Surely that depends on how you define "the best".

If you lock down a whole country for 6 months,  and by so doing destroy the economy and future health care of the inhabitants, is that better than accepting a limited number of deaths,  but at the same time protecting the economy.

There is no right or wrong answer, but to assume that the lowest possible deaths from CV19 is the "best " result is to take a blinkered approach to the wider picture.

 

No country that has successfully locked down and suppressed COVID did it for more than 6 months and their economies are doing just fine......we will have no choice but to lock down again....and United announced today that they are getting ready to lay off 35,000 the first of October with more to come from other industries.....

Edited July 8, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[UnorigionalName]

19 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Surely that depends on how you define "the best".

If you lock down a whole country for 6 months,  and by so doing destroy the economy and future health care of the inhabitants, is that better than accepting a limited number of deaths,  but at the same time protecting the economy.

There is no right or wrong answer, but to assume that the lowest possible deaths from CV19 is the "best " result is to take a blinkered approach to the wider picture.

 

the best as in least amount of COVID deaths.

 

Right, again, that's a false dichotomy, you didn't read what I wrote. 

 

Look at Sweden.  The government can't tell people in a free society "Everyone, especially you young people, put your life and future health on the line and work like normal, we need our 401k's to keep growing" and expect people to follow.  Look at UK, look at red states in the US.

 

It's a bad enough disease people don't WANT to get the disease.  I don't want to get the disease.  Even if the government gave me vouchers to go to a bar or restaurant, no way in hell will you find me there with US level of positive cases.  No one wants to put up with northern Italy levels of mayhem.  People will voluntarily lock down even if the government doesn't want to.  Or they will demand their elected officials lock down.

 

There is no version of this planet earth where everyone goes to work as normal while ICU's run out of beds and ~5% of the population is dying. 

 

So look at Sweden, who wanted to have the herd immunity minimal economic impact approach.  It completely failed.  Their mortality is many times higher than their neighbors, their economy is currently doing worse than their neighbors that did lock down, and now their neighbors are easing restrictions while Sweden has finally started lock downs, and they are no where near close to herd immunity.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

No country that has successfully locked down and suppressed COVID did it for more than 6 months and their economies are doing just fine......even China is going to have the last laugh at the US.....

The UK has not been a good example of how to handle CV19.  However,  there is increasing evidence that over the next few years, more people will die due to lack of medical attention (cancers,  transplants,  heart conditions etc) due to lack of medical care,  than will have died due to CV19.

The full picture will only become apparent in 5 years time, but to concentrate purely on the suppression of CV19,  without taking into account the long term consequences,  is foolhardy. 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

the best as in least amount of COVID deaths.

 

Right, again, that's a false dichotomy, you didn't read what I wrote. 

 

Look at Sweden.  The government can't tell people in a free society "Everyone, especially you young people, put your life and future health on the line and work like normal, we need our 401k's to keep growing" and expect people to follow.  Look at UK, look at red states in the US.

 

It's a bad enough disease people don't WANT to get the disease.  I don't want to get the disease.  Even if the government gave me vouchers to go to a bar or restaurant, no way in hell will you find me there with US level of positive cases.  No one wants to put up with northern Italy levels of mayhem.  People will voluntarily lock down even if the government doesn't want to.  Or they will demand their elected officials lock down.

 

There is no version of this planet earth where everyone goes to work as normal while ICU's run out of beds and ~5% of the population is dying. 

 

So look at Sweden, who wanted to have the herd immunity minimal economic impact approach.  It completely failed.  Their mortality is many times higher than their neighbors, their economy is currently doing worse than their neighbors that did lock down, and now their neighbors are easing restrictions while Sweden has finally started lock downs, and they are no where near close to herd immunity.

There are so many erroneous assumptions in your somewhat Joycean reply that I find it difficult to know where to start. 

Just one point to ponder on - if saving one person dying from CV19 means that 2 people will die from cancer, is that a good result?  

 

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The UK has not been a good example of how to handle CV19.  However,  there is increasing evidence that over the next few years, more people will die due to lack of medical attention (cancers,  transplants,  heart conditions etc) due to lack of medical care,  than will have died due to CV19.

The full picture will only become apparent in 5 years time, but to concentrate purely on the suppression of CV19,  without taking into account the long term consequences,  is foolhardy. 

 

200,000 US deaths are predicted by election day in the US....no 5 years needed.....cannot imagine cruise lines even being able to cruise by next year at this time in the US....it is out of control....it was all un-necessary and I really can care less what any bunk statics Covid-19 deniers produce about medical deaths when there is becoming less and less room in our hospitals for anything but Covid-19 patients and deaths....

Edited July 8, 2020 by PrincessLuver