Carnival to Dump Six Ships

[Snow Hill]

33 minutes ago, drsel said:

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I think that Carnival will be more working similar to the model announced by MSC than Hurtigruten.

What was the model announced by MSC?

This is MSC model

https://www.msccruises.co.uk/health-safety

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Snow Hill

[molecrochip]

11 minutes ago, braemar12 said:

It may be the case that Oceana goes to Australia to replace one of the earlier Sun-class cruise ships.

I tend to know more about UK operations than worldwide matters. A move to another brand could be a possible, either way, I’m expecting her to leave P&O.

 

That said, things are changing daily. Miami will be looking to ensure that they have the right capacity across all brands across the world. If a better offer / option presents itself before contracts are signed, things could change.

[molecrochip]

16 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

This is MSC model

https://www.msccruises.co.uk/health-safety

 

 

I wasn’t going crazy, I did read an MSC factsheet. Thanks

[Adawn47]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Additionally, new ships are cheaper to run and more efficient. Carry more passengers thus higher net income.

 

Older ships will leave the fleet.

I wonder why the ships that are being discussed are all P&O's smaller ships. Only one Costa ship has gone and there are many much older and smaller ships under the Carnival umbrella. 

Avril 

[No pager thank you]

7 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I wonder why the ships that are being discussed are all P&O's smaller ships. Only one Costa ship has gone and there are many much older and smaller ships under the Carnival umbrella. 

Avril 

I see what you are saying Avril.  I would imagine that the answer is that money talks. 

 

It is more difficult to convince us Brits to spend more on board the smaller ships than it is other nationalities who tend to frequent other smallesr ships in the Carnival umbrella.  Therefore, it is more difficult to generate profit on the smaller ships, particularly when the original fares are priced low.  Low profits, low asset values.

 

This will be one of the reasons why Oceana has been "promoted" up the disposals list I would have thought.  Also why the next two will be Arcadia and Aurora, more than likely.  I do hope that both have a good few years yet, as I like (and have bookings on) both.

[grapau27]

2 hours ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Quite a few years ago we did couple of short cruises out of Hong Kong on Legend of Seas.  Lots of Chinese pax, mind you it was Chinese New Year.

 

The cruise director said that although LoS was a small ship by RCI standards, she was (at that time) one of the largest cruise ships operating in that area.  She was the only RCI ship we've been on so can't comment on whether her casino was bigger than others of that company, but it was massive - well to me anyway.  Rammed every night.

Legend of the Seas is now 

Marella Discovery 2 and Splendour of the Seas is Marella Discovery.

They were from the RCL Vision class of ship which we have sailed on a few times.

Voyager of the Seas is twice the size and Oasis class three times the size of Vision class with very large casino's where in the US smoking is allowed in the casino.

[grapau27]

13 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I see what you are saying Avril.  I would imagine that the answer is that money talks. 

 

It is more difficult to convince us Brits to spend more on board the smaller ships than it is other nationalities who tend to frequent other smallesr ships in the Carnival umbrella.  Therefore, it is more difficult to generate profit on the smaller ships, particularly when the original fares are priced low.  Low profits, low asset values.

 

This will be one of the reasons why Oceana has been "promoted" up the disposals list I would have thought.  Also why the next two will be Arcadia and Aurora, more than likely.  I do hope that both have a good few years yet, as I like (and have bookings on) both.

Another reason being that Carnival and Princess charge $14.99pppd autogratuities which a lot of people pay whereas P&O are gratuities included which makes them less profitable to Carnival.

[Adawn47]

11 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Also why the next two will be Arcadia and Aurora, more than likely.  I do hope that both have a good few years yet, as I like (and have bookings on) both.

I hope so too. We have Arcadia booked for 2021 which we hope to take, but the one this year looks increasingly likely to be cancelled either by P&O or us,  as the new cruising regulations will make for an uncomfortable experience. I feel now that  our cruising days are coming to and end because we can't fly anymore, and the smaller adult only ships seem to be, not so slowly, disappearing. 

Avril 

[tring]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

Sorry meant NCL. https://www.ncl.com/uk/en/why-cruise-norwegian/book-with-confidence#safety

 

Thanks for this, interesting.  I am confused though as to what they would do if someone appears to have a temperature/symptoms on return to the ship at a port of call.  Would they say the person cannot re embark the ship and their belongings gathered together and sent away with the person/couple, or would they let the person on the ship, but isolate in their cabin or in the new medical centre facilities.  No mention at all about that in any documents I have seen, though either option has it's problems.  Interesting NCL are offering FCC's if not allowed to embark, but I suspect we would be expected to use insurance if not allowed to return to the ship at a port and insurance policies will not cover that unless the cruise booked prior to the COVID problem arising.

 

As stated here and also elsewhere, there will need to be port changes, which in our minds could be more of a problem than anything else as we choose cruises for itineraries.  We also expect considerable restrictions on where we can go when ashore, which again is not our style as the main tourist venues are rarely where we head off to.  In fact as the EU document refers to keeping passengers in cohorts when ashore, it is difficult to see how that can be done unless confining passengers to organised trips.

 

With port changes and shorter cruises, I cannot see many of the originally planned cruises going ahead whilst the virus is still a problem.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by tring

[No pager thank you]

14 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Another reason being that Carnival and Princess charge $14.99pppd autogratuities which a lot of people pay whereas P&O are gratuities included which makes them less profitable to Carnival.

Correct.  £4.50 not £9+ a pint, smaller casinos, modestly charged wine lists and specialty restaurant cover charges etc etc

[molecrochip]

I would imagine that a UK company denying boarding would be required to give cash refund.

 

Based upon what I’ve read I’d imagine a failed temperature check is likely to lead to isolation for the affected person in dedicated facility on board and test. Rest of cabin would be expected to self-isolate in cabin and tested.
 

If you’ve been in a wider group or on tour, possible precautionary testing?

 

Expect to see an onboard test and tracing type operation if there is an outbreak.

[Captain_Morgan]

Whether it be NCL or MSC, both seem to be heavy on marketing and light on proven result...lots of well intended wording but nothing in my mind in either of their models is convincing that they will somehow prevent cases onboard.

Sure you can sanitize more, and take temperatures but who is going to police the new policies?  Sorry to use the terminology but i can't think of any better way to describe it as if there are enough issues trying to get people to wash their hands to prevent noro, who honestly thinks clever marketing gimics will prevent COVID?

Edited July 5, 2020 by Captain_Morgan
typo

[amfc_lenny]

A bit gutting to read this thread, we have our honeymoon booked for Ventura next sept to the Baltic in a very specific cabin that was booked in release. 
 

the price we paid is now double, if our cruise is cancelled due to oceana being sold and ships repositioned there is now way we can afford any equivalent cruise for next year. ☹️☹️☹️

[zap99]

46 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Whether it be NCL or MSC, both seem to be heavy on marketing and light on proven result...lots of well intended wording but nothing in my mind in either of their models is convincing that they will somehow prevent cases onboard.

Sure you can sanitize more, and take temperatures but who is going to police the new policies?  Sorry to use the terminology but i can't think of any better way to describe it as if there are enough issues trying to get people to wash their hands to prevent noro, who honestly thinks clever marketing gimics will prevent COVID?

No doubt organisations will accredit Cruise companies procedures, as the do in the hotel industry and issue certificates much like BS EN ISO 9001.

[drsel]

A bit gutting to read this thread, we have our honeymoon booked for Ventura next sept to the Baltic in a very specific cabin that was booked in release. 
 
the price we paid is now double, if our cruise is cancelled due to oceana being sold and ships repositioned there is now way we can afford any equivalent cruise for next year. [emoji3525][emoji3525][emoji3525]

no doubt the Baltic Cruises and Norwegian fjord Cruises are very expensive.
how much did you pay and which is the date of sailing?

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, drsel said:

no doubt the Baltic Cruises and Norwegian fjord Cruises are very expensive.
how much did you pay and which is the date of sailing?

The fjord cruises have always seemed pretty cheap to me.

[CCFC]

2 hours ago, grapau27 said:

Another reason being that Carnival and Princess charge $14.99pppd autogratuities which a lot of people pay whereas P&O are gratuities included which makes them less profitable to Carnival.

 

Princess let you pay £35 a day now which gives you the drinks package, free fast Wifi and gratuities included. 

[molecrochip]

41 minutes ago, zap99 said:

No doubt organisations will accredit Cruise companies procedures, as the do in the hotel industry and issue certificates much like BS EN ISO 9001.

All the major international brand hotels are reopening this month which should give us an idea on how effective these measures are.

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

I wonder why the ships that are being discussed are all P&O's smaller ships. Only one Costa ship has gone and there are many much older and smaller ships under the Carnival umbrella. 

Avril 

The other thing Carnival Corp will be taking into account is the local demand/state of the market. Currently, they will also be aware that the UK has been less successful in managing the Covid situation than the rest of Europe and how that might (and I'm not saying it necessarily will) affect things going forward. The ships themselves are not the sole consideration.

[No pager thank you]

1 hour ago, CCFC said:

 

Princess let you pay £35 a day now which gives you the drinks package, free fast Wifi and gratuities included. 

Whereas on P&O, the combined package is actually more expensive, if you want all the goodies:

 

-- Drinks package - £39.95 per day.  Comprehensive - but not complete, "premium soft drinks" cost extra is the cheeky one IMO.

-- Wifi - to be able to do the basics £12.50 per day, there is a naff alternative of £7.75 a day (or a hefty per minute charge), or a full package allowing you to stream videos etc for £24.95 a day

-- Gratuities - included.

 

Therefore, for most passengers, the equivalent would be £52 a day, if you wanted the same - and not too far off the American lines, but only 4-10% of passengers "bite".  This always comes to mind when someone suggests that the P&O package is good value.  Just shows how the costs are presented differently but actually P&O is not always the cheapest option - depending on your on board preferences etc.  However, if you are a lighter drinker or tee-totaler, and quite happy with Wifi at the ports, P&O wins hands down.  But, this is not helpful to on board profit margins.

Edited July 5, 2020 by No pager thank you
typo

[amfc_lenny]

1 hour ago, drsel said:

no doubt the Baltic Cruises and Norwegian fjord Cruises are very expensive.
how much did you pay and which is the date of sailing?

 We paid £3800 for our superior deluxe in Ventura departing sept 5th 21 which is now going for just over £6k!!

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Whether it be NCL or MSC, both seem to be heavy on marketing and light on proven result...lots of well intended wording but nothing in my mind in either of their models is convincing that they will somehow prevent cases onboard.

Sure you can sanitize more, and take temperatures but who is going to police the new policies?  Sorry to use the terminology but i can't think of any better way to describe it as if there are enough issues trying to get people to wash their hands to prevent noro, who honestly thinks clever marketing gimics will prevent COVID?

I think that the suggestion raised that NCL may be closer to a P&O model than Costa was/is of interest.

 

The salient omission from the NCL guidance is any reference, direct or oblique, to passenger numbers being reduced, unless I have missed this.  This is either because NCL don't want to go there - and in fairness that's the answer to most of their FAQs - or because they actually believe it possible to introduce the measures and maintain booking levels. 

 

In turn, this would either infer that they were confident around staggering movement on board (i.e. meals, entertainment venues etc, interpreting the CLIA guidance) or feel that the strength of their order book doesn't require thoughts around culling.  Enough passengers have self-selected to defer.  It doesn't read like a 30% ship capacity restart like Hurtigruten.

 

If this does prove to be correct, and such measures are effective, then this may be of comfort to those passengers on the first wave of re-sailings of P&O and who do want to cruise.  Conscious not to repeat yesterday evening debate etc but very interesting to see what P&O do next and if they choose to say anything before passengers are requested to pay full balances 12 weeks out (i.e. within the next three weeks).

  

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, amfc_lenny said:

 We paid £3800 for our superior deluxe in Ventura departing sept 5th 21 which is now going for just over £6k!!

Hopefully things will have settled down by then and you have a special honeymoon.

Ventura with her sliding retractable roof is a safe bet to stay imo.

Graham.

[grapau27]

3 hours ago, CCFC said:

 

Princess let you pay £35 a day now which gives you the drinks package, free fast Wifi and gratuities included. 

We don't drink a lot and as Elite loyalty we both get enough WiFi.

We always pre or auto-pay tips so not an issue for us but Princess allow you to increase or decrease tips or even stop them altogether.

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

We don't drink a lot and as Elite loyalty we both get enough WiFi.

We always pre or auto-pay tips so not an issue for us but Princess allow you to increase or decrease tips or even stop them altogether.

Most cruise lines say that tips are discretionary, which allows you to delete the auto grats, if you want.