Hope and pray for a TREATMENT.

[FiremedicMike151]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:03 AM, tinleypark andy said:

Right now, for the country and cruising, the best we can ask for is  a treatment for the virus.

A vaccine could take up to 3-5 years including testing and trials. Think about it, the Aids epidemic really took off during the early 80"s, and they still do not have a vaccine for it. 

Hopefully they finding a treatment that will knock it down to an ordinary flu or cold. Until then IMO, the CDC (can't determine a cause) has the cruise industry's hands tied..

Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to treat a virus.  An effective and consistent anti-viral for COVID is unlikely.. 

 

[puppycanducruise]

A vaccine is a wonderful thing.

But aside from it working as a vaccine, it must also not cause more problems to the body.  These things cannot be found out in a short period of time.  It may take years to determine long term affects.

[FiremedicMike151]

Just now, puppycanducruise said:

A vaccine is a wonderful thing.

But aside from it working as a vaccine, it must also not cause more problems to the body.  These things cannot be found out in a short period of time.  It may take years to determine long term affects.

I agree..

 

I am NOT an anti-vaxxer.. All of my shots are up to date and all of my kids have all of their recommended shots.

 

That said, I doubt I'll be first in line to receive a vaccine that was rushed through the normal channels to get it out quicker..

 

[sanmarcosman]

1 minute ago, puppycanducruise said:

A vaccine is a wonderful thing.

But aside from it working as a vaccine, it must also not cause more problems to the body.  These things cannot be found out in a short period of time.  It may take years to determine long term affects.

Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of time.

[Nic6318]

1 hour ago, Saint Greg said:

Carnival is a company. I don’t see them turning down money because someone doesn’t want to get the vaccine. I think they’ll protect their crew and if a guests opts not to get vaccinated and they get sick on the cruise, that’s on them. 

 

Hi

 

Just curious. Taking your thought here further, are you of the opinion that if the companies can't protect their employees with a vaccine, the cruise lines won't be able to start again?

 

It seems that in most of  the discussions on this site almost nobody is considering the risks to the health of crew. How is the crew to be protected before any vaccine becomes available. 

 

When you read statements such as, "I'm not going to wear a mask (even if required), what can they do about it" on this site, I wouldn't want to be working on one of those ships. As it was before, you couldn't even convince people to wash their hands after using the washroom. Now we are praying these same people do things that might keep us alive. 

[Radiioman46]

There are treatments that work. I'm not talking about VAXs.

 

There is a reason that the deaths are running lower even though the cases are running higher. 

[Stick93]

I don't think anyone here really knows if/when and how effective a vaccine will be - I will leave that for the experts.

 

Lets say there is one and they make it mandatory - which I am not a legal scholar to know if this is possible or not. But they make it mandatory and I lie to get on the ship - what will happen? 

People lie about many things to get on a ship so will it make a difference?

[Radiioman46]

5 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Sorry Radioman. I meant to quote CruisingfromLA:

No Problemo!

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Anyway....after talking to someone who is actually more knowledgeable than the experts on Cruise Critic (someone from Mayo Clinic)....I'm expecting a vaccine by early 2021.  The cruise industry should make the vaccine mandatory . And for those who won't get a vaccine....they get to stay on shore because plenty of other people will be compliant and fill the ships. 

 

Nobody is going to make a novella vaccine for novella coronavirus mandatory.  Health care workers would be the first guineas pigs and I expect many will balk at something that has been minimally tested.

 

 

2 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

My guess is that cruising will resume "by summer of 2021".  For the 10 millionth time....covid is airborne.  You can clean and disinfect all you want.  But you can't stop people from talking....and the droplets that come out of their mouths go right into yours.  Even if you're 6 feet apart....those people will talk louder so you can hear....and their droplets will have increase velocity.

 

WEAR MASKS for the 10 millionth and 1 time. With effective testing AND contact tracing it is possible to get the virus out of circulation.

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I don't think anyone here really knows if/when and how effective a vaccine will be - I will leave that for the experts.

 

Lets say there is one and they make it mandatory - which I am not a legal scholar to know if this is possible or not. But they make it mandatory and I lie to get on the ship - what will happen? 

People lie about many things to get on a ship so will it make a difference?

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that opens you up for all kinds of liability and possible criminal charges.

[Stick93]

17 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that opens you up for all kinds of liability and possible criminal charges.

Liability and proving a person who has no symptoms but spreading a disease will take too much. They wont find these people -  I've seen many sick people on ships, the first case of diarrhea starts somewhere...

 

But in reality if 70% of people get the vaccine and the staff gets it - then you will achieve herd immunity. 

 

I will take a vaccine but I fully understand people who wont. I also don't think a business doing business in this country will be able to discriminate against those who don't - but things are changing pretty quickly in all our cities so maybe it might just happen. 

[sanger727]

45 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I've read a couple of articles that suggest that people who don't regularly get flu/pneumonia/etc shots have a higher resistance to viruses. People tend to build a natural resistance to a certain extent. Children playing in the dirt is actually food for them.  The last flu shot I got was in the 70s during the swine flu scare. I've had the flu once since. 

 

 

 

I don't know what you read but it sounds anecdotal. The point of a vaccine to build a resistance to a virus without being exposed. I get a flu shot every year and have never had the flu. There are many ways to build you resistance to diseases, vaccines are only one. Yes, getting exposed to viruses repeatedly is likely also one but probably has higher likelihood of getting sick along the way. I certainly don't think children should live in a bubble and getting sick is a normal part of growing up and builds a healthy immune system but as an adult I have no desire to allow natural resistance to build up to a disease if I can aquire an immunity through a vaccine.

[Butterbean1000]

6 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Liability and proving a person who has no symptoms but spreading a disease will take too much. They wont find these people -  I've seen many sick people on ships, the first case of diarrhea starts somewhere...

 

But in reality if 70% of people get the vaccine and the staff gets it - then you will achieve herd immunity. 

 

I will take a vaccine but I fully understand people who wont. I also don't think a business doing business in this country will be able to discriminate against those who don't - but things are changing pretty quickly in all our cities so maybe it might just happen. 

I don't think you can legally force people to get a vaccine.  A few nurses at a local major hospital sued the hospital when they tried to force the nurses to get flu shots.  The nurses won.

[Butterbean1000]

4 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I don't know what you read but it sounds anecdotal. The point of a vaccine to build a resistance to a virus without being exposed. I get a flu shot every year and have never had the flu. There are many ways to build you resistance to diseases, vaccines are only one. Yes, getting exposed to viruses repeatedly is likely also one but probably has higher likelihood of getting sick along the way. I certainly don't think children should live in a bubble and getting sick is a normal part of growing up and builds a healthy immune system but as an adult I have no desire to allow natural resistance to build up to a disease if I can aquire an immunity through a vaccine.

100% your choice as it should be.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Butterbean1000

[Stick93]

22 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I don't think you can legally force people to get a vaccine.  A few nurses at a local major hospital sued the hospital when they tried to force the nurses to get flu shots.  The nurses won.

But nurses who refuse the shot need to wear a surgical mask at work from the onset of the flu to the conclusion of the flu season. 

[Lovincruisin1321]

4 hours ago, S&B said:

We hopefully will have a vaccine by the end of the year or the beginning of 2021 but as I understand it 30 percent of the US population will refuse to accept it.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Will the cruise industry make it mandatory?   Will the vaccine be 100 percent effective.   There are so many questions and we all try to be patient.

 We have cruises booked in July and October 2021 but waiting to see how the cruise lines deal with anyone not willing to take the vaccine if it becomes available.  

In the mean time we are still hunkering down, going only to the bank and the grocery store so far.  

Stay healthy every one!!!

"...but as I understand it 30 percent of the US population will refuse to accept it"

2006 article but worth the read if mandated:  https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/mandatory-vaccination-legal-time-epidemic/2006-04?fbclid=IwAR244VxbgP4gL2-NsdJhemxja4XVLGEC7vXUXtSdt0DrG8kUxLcd6ffeSQU

 

[MsTabbyKats]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

WEAR MASKS for the 10 millionth and 1 time. With effective testing AND contact tracing it is possible to get the virus out of circulation.

And what do you think I've been doing for the billionth time?  I was so happy I got to "dine out" and allowed to take the mask off in public for the first time since early March.

 

Contact tracing in NYC....not gonna work.  If I go on the subway....will there be a list of the other passengers...lol.

 

Testing, at this time....very unreliable.

 

But the good news is that Gov Cuomo is going to make visitors from certain states "self-quarantine" for 2 weeks.  

 

 

 

[Stick93]

13 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

But the good news is that Gov Cuomo is going to make visitors from certain states "self-quarantine" for 2 weeks.  

 

Funny how times have changed - and a travel ban on Americans in Europe being considered. 

 

I think a Vaccine might help us.

[Butterbean1000]

2 hours ago, Stick93 said:

But nurses who refuse the shot need to wear a surgical mask at work from the onset of the flu to the conclusion of the flu season. 

I guess that's between them and their employer. 

[bitemyfly]

While we wait for a vaccine, mitigation aka masks,  hygiene, Distance along with strides on treatment is improving... that’s why death rates are coming down in states that are open and have spikes ..

in the beginning the number of people Surviving when put on ventilation was horrendous. 

today much more on ventilators are surviving . The hosp are not rushing to put them on ventilators, utilizing hi flo o2 and combination of drugs and steroids .. not putting recovering patients in rehabs is saving thousands of older folks.

Effective treatments perhaps coupled with a vaccine is what will bring cruising backtonwhere it was.

for now without those two most older folks Or high risk won’t be cruising Any time soon , perhaps the young wil be able and catered too once they sort out restrictions .

[MJSailors]

Wait.....did I read in a post on this thread that there may be a Chinese developed vaccine?

In my personal view, this does not give me confidence,given the origin of the Covid-19virus.

As someone with respiratory issues, I am leery of any Covid-19 vaccine until a great amount of research is done concerning side effects of such a vaccine. While I do think that a vaccine will mitigate Covid-19 cases world-wide, I will need to be convinced that if I do take the vaccine, I will not experience side effects that may compromise my respiratory system.

 I was listening to a podcast offered by Newsday ( a newspaper serving LI,NY) where two doctors,directors of two major hospital groups in the Metro area were discussing Covid-19 issues. One doctor raised the idea that in addition to a vaccine, research is also being done for a drug to lessen the effects of the virus similar to the drug given in the first stages of the flu,lessening the effects of the flu virus for patients.

IMO, both seem to be reasonable to battle this Covid-19 pandemic.

[MsTabbyKats]

4 hours ago, Stick93 said:

I don't think anyone here really knows if/when and how effective a vaccine will be - I will leave that for the experts.

 

Lets say there is one and they make it mandatory - which I am not a legal scholar to know if this is possible or not. But they make it mandatory and I lie to get on the ship - what will happen? 

People lie about many things to get on a ship so will it make a difference?

I assume they would issue some documentation to show someone was vaccinated.

 

But, a cruiseline is a "for profit" business....they can require anything they want.  

 

Remember....not too long ago (and probably now on some lines) you had to "dress" for dinner.  If not, you were rejected from the MDR and banished to the buffet.  Is that legal?  I mean, your fare included the meal.  But, they had rules (probably in the terms and conditions).   The same with smoking....you're not gonna be a "happy sailor" if you think you'll be smoking anywhere/anyplace.

 

 

 

[john91498]

5 hours ago, FiremedicMike151 said:

Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to treat a virus.  An effective and consistent anti-viral for COVID is unlikely.. 

 

 

This. We still haven't found an effective vaccine for the common cold or flu.

[Doggielover68]

6 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Before 9/11.....people just breezed thru the airports.

After 9/11...you had to be screened by TSA

Not everyone is a terrorist....but it's function is to screen out "those who may be"

Yes...this is a big imposition for everyone who CHOOSES to fly.  But, if you want to fly....you need to comply.

 

After Covid....and the development of a vaccine.....hopefully the cruise lines will want to screen out "those who may be susceptible to covid".  You get the vaccine....or you don't sail.  Cruising is not mandatory....it's optional.   The vaccine may not be perfect....but it will sure help.  People who don't want it have other "vacation options".

 

Things in life change and you can't go back to "how things were" because you end up with the same problems. 

This. I hope they require vaccines if they are safe and widely available. Cruising is a luxury, not a right. 

 

Some countries require vaccines for entry. No one is forcing you to go there. 

 

The government can't force you to get vaccinated, but private companies and employers certainly can.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Doggielover68

[evandbob]

9 hours ago, tinleypark andy said:

I always felt there was ample room for both.

 

There's room for both sure, knock yourself out, no one will stop you from doing both. but only hard work and science will yield a vaccine.  Wishing and hoping and praying won't.  Does make for a decent song ditty to make the lab work pass by.