Will it ever be safe..

[bitemyfly]

I found the data in the link regarding the amount of spread in cruise ships  very interesting . 
there was certainly a lot of coverage on a couple of infamous ships like the princess lines but apparently it Was all over and to me not really published 

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

1 hour ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

I’m not telling anyone not to cruise & mine is still scheduled for October.  Just don’t assume that cruising while active cases are high can only affect you.  

Quoting myself here to be clear.  We all need to balance the risks presented by this virus vs rewards (helping economy, personal enjoyment, etc).  It is an individual decision once available.
 

Yesterday was the 1st day since March 23rd I was able to eat inside a restaurant in Illinois; I did.  Wore a mask entering & leaving (obviously not while sitting).  Tables were marked for available seating or excluded.  I enjoyed my meal as much as I would have last year.  

[MURCOTT]

17 hours ago, RogBus101 said:

I'm 60 my life's getting short.I'm going forward it is what it is!

I'm 73 and it:s even shorter so if there was a ship leaving tomorrow, I'd be on it.

[NavyCruiser]

Duplicate

Edited June 27, 2020 by NavyCruiser
Duplicate

[crewsweeper]

13 hours ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

There are a lot of young, healthy people in Florida right now making choices whose results get passed on to older & less healthy people when they pass them later in a grocery store or on the sidewalk.  Do you really think there is a 0% chance your risk assessment only involves you & your freedom?

True...But....relative to the number of tests, infection is still low and hospitalization is lower too than in March and April. Note that neither serious cases nor deaths without related co-morbid diseases aren't rising.

Many recent cases are from asymptomatic people.

Going to be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in determining who can or cannot cruise. But from a personal health risk management standpoint,  if you are in the high risk grouping, elderly with underlying health issues or people who are obese or have diabetes,  etc.. Don't Cruise. For your health sake. 

[skridge]

3 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

 

You have no sympathy for the other 1.4 Million Americans who've died of other causes so far this year....?

This post makes absolutely no sense.  Of course I care about people that die.  That is why I don't want them to start back cruising in the middle of the Peak of a global pandemic.  If you will go back and look at the history of my posts that have not been taken down you will see they are extremely accurate, because instead of being irrationally optimistic,  I have been completely realistic.  I have been called all sorts of names for it.  I am fine with that as long as I get the truth out there instead of a bunch of propoganda that has turned out to be false and dangerous.

[skridge]

8 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

True...But....relative to the number of tests, infection is still low and hospitalization is lower too than in March and April. Note that neither serious cases nor deaths without related co-morbid diseases aren't rising.

Many recent cases are from asymptomatic people.

Going to be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in determining who can or cannot cruise. But from a personal health risk management standpoint,  if you are in the high risk grouping, elderly with underlying health issues or people who are obese or have diabetes,  etc.. Don't Cruise. For your health sake. 

You just gave a great argument for not starting back cruising with the asymptomatic comment.  Also the end of the comment describes more than half of the people I see on cruises.  As a sleep apnea patient that could stand to lose 40 pounds I can relate I fit into that category.

[crewsweeper]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

There are actually probably more since covid can mimic other illnesses.

 

However, the counting isn't much different than flu where many of the deaths are due to pneumonia that otherwise would not have invaded the body if not for the flu first.

Yet Medicare offers a 20 % bonus to hospitals treating CV19 patients  thus if a person dies of a heart attack and has tested positive,  the hospital gets a better repayment to say the patient died of CV19 vs cardiac arrest. 

[RogBus101]

2 hours ago, MURCOTT said:

I'm 73 and it:s even shorter so if there was a ship leaving tomorrow, I'd be on it.

I would be right there with you Murcott!

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

13 hours ago, gtaylor said:

 

1966 USS Recruit (TDE-1)

Thank you for your service.  My brother served on the Coral Sea in the late ‘70s which I think was stationed in San Diego at the time.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

Yet Medicare offers a 20 % bonus to hospitals treating CV19 patients  thus if a person dies of a heart attack and has tested positive,  the hospital gets a better repayment to say the patient died of CV19 vs cardiac arrest. 

 

Provision in the relief act

The coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients.

There have been no public reports that hospitals are exaggerating COVID-19 numbers to receive higher Medicare payments.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

 

[seaman11]

18 hours ago, Doggielover68 said:

It could be safe if all people social distanced properly, wore masks correctly, and washed their hands...but alas, people are too stubborn to follow a few simple guidelines so now we are all stuck at home. 

 

Will it ever be safe? Sure, if there is a vaccine that is effective and people aren't anti vaxxers. Personally, I think the cruiselines should require proof of vaccination once it's available.  

 

[tree.critter]

My fear is that the cruise lines won’t sail until a vaccine is readily available. I do have hope that this will be by early 2021. I am in the camp of give me the vaccine ASAP and let me start living a full life again. So much so that I will be participating in phase 3 of vaccine testing starting 7/1. Our test group will run for 25 months with the goal determining how long will we continue to produce antibodies and protection from Covid. I do believe if people can sign a release form and participate in a jam packed stadium for political rallies and conventions the same release forms could be used upon boarding a ship. Either way we hope the vaccine is successful, still have 2 cruises booked for this year. 

[OCruisers]

Safe... Yes .... But I do wonder if we'll ever get back to the "old normal" ? 😞

[coevan]

and how do you explain this to the families of the almost 130,000 dead people. Cloudnine is a great moniker.

[sanger727]

10 hours ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Well my wife’s 52 year old friend (who lives in a Chicago suburb) has a compromised immune system.  From day 1 of the Illinois lockdown she always has ordered food delivery, worked permanently from home, lives alone and had no house guests.  She left the house twice in the following month during non-peak times & still got Covid-19.  She took every reasonable precaution.  She has recovered since then.
 

You can believe what you want to believe.  I’m not telling anyone not to cruise & mine is still scheduled for October.  Just don’t assume that cruising while active cases are high can only affect you.  

I’m glad your friend recovered. And I also have no intention of cruising in the near future. I do intend to live my life in a socially responsible manner and as simply sick and tired of the people who want to blame and guilt every person who choose to step outside with ‘what if you breathe the same air as an elderly person’. Yes, I could catch covid and spread it. If I catch it it will almost certainly be at work. I would still like to be able to live my life in the meantime.

Edited June 28, 2020 by sanger727

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

23 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

I’m glad your friend recovered. And I also have no intention of cruising in the near future. I do intend to live my life in a socially responsible manner and as simply sick and tired of the people who want to blame and guilt every person who choose to step outside with ‘what if you breathe the same air as an elderly person’. Yes, I could catch covid and spread it. If I catch it it will almost certainly be at work. I would still like to be able to live my life in the meantime.

A lot of wisdom in your words (in my opinion).  Living your life to the fullest extent is not mutually exclusive with being socially responsible.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, tree.critter said:

My fear is that the cruise lines won’t sail until a vaccine is readily available. I do have hope that this will be by early 2021. I am in the camp of give me the vaccine ASAP and let me start living a full life again. So much so that I will be participating in phase 3 of vaccine testing starting 7/1. Our test group will run for 25 months with the goal determining how long will we continue to produce antibodies and protection from Covid. I do believe if people can sign a release form and participate in a jam packed stadium for political rallies and conventions the same release forms could be used upon boarding a ship. Either way we hope the vaccine is successful, still have 2 cruises booked for this year. 

Bless you for participating. And I truly hope it is successful with no real prevalent serious side effects. (There are always some as there is always at least the chance of being allergic.)

[scpirate]

On 6/26/2020 at 5:03 PM, firefly333 said:

Was it ever safe before? There were noro outbreaks, hurricanes, I lost my car to the one hit Galveston.

 

Life never was 100%, at some pt you either are willing to life and do what you want as allowed or not. I'll sign up for 1st vaccine and sign a waiver,... whatever it takes.

 

There have always been risks 

Well said

[BlerkOne]

And will any countries accept Americans?

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/countries-closed-to-us-travelers

 

 

[Moviela]

I am now very concerned about my cruise at the end of October. The sharp increase in the number of infections since retail and dining in has opened in California has resulted in serious talk about closing things down, and even brutal a penalty for not wearing a mask in public. Some retailers that did not open at the first chance are now extending their expected opening date.

 

I still hope that in the coming four months the virus lies down of its own accord.

 

 

[MsTabbyKats]

4 hours ago, Moviela said:

I am now very concerned about my cruise at the end of October. The sharp increase in the number of infections since retail and dining in has opened in California has resulted in serious talk about closing things down, and even brutal a penalty for not wearing a mask in public. Some retailers that did not open at the first chance are now extending their expected opening date.

 

I still hope that in the coming four months the virus lies down of its own accord.

 

 

From someone who was flamed, insulted...etc...when I told people, a few weeks ago....that they would not be sailing in August:

I don't think you'll be sailing in Oct.

 

When we (NYC) were the epicenter of covid...."others" did not take this seriously.   Now look at  what the "let's open everything up" people did to themselves.

[richfret]

So they have banned cruising.  The good news, however, is that instead of cruising, you can fly to a vacation site and stay in a hotel or motel.  Then take an Huber or bus to a restaurant for your meals.   But remember, you must wear your mask and stay 6 feet away from the other vacationers.  Now this all starts to make sense.  The other option is to stay home, lock the doors, have your meals delivered and ride out the depression that follows.  If the Delivery guy gets the virus then that would be a disaster.  

Am I being a wise guy?   Absolutely  yes,  but I think it shows we really do not have answers to this virus problem. 

 

I am booked for a Horizon January 9, 2021 cruise and I have no doubts that it will be cancelled.  My final payment is due in October and if things continue as they now are,  I will probably not pay it but change the cruise to May 1.  Even May is a gamble.    

I looked on the internet for  data regarding the 1918 Pandemic and found the following.  There were  675,000 virus deaths in the US and  500 million world wide which was 1/3 of the total population at that time.   So it does show it was even worse then and they had just completed WW1.

 

In the old days, I would be all excited about the next cruise but for this cruise, I am not even sure there will be a Carnival.  Heck of a way to start the day.

[FiredogCruiser]

Frustrating thread to follow. None of us know for sure what will happen because the cruise industry doesn't know what the governments (federal, state and local ports) are going to do or require. And that is because government itself has no idea at this point what they are going to do. They are literally making things up as they go along. Expecting government to develop a sensible response plan, set a time table for implementation and actually carry it through to completion is foolhardy. They are more interested in fighting with each other, which is where I think the comments regarding politics comes in.

 

Will things improve after November? Maybe, simply because the election will be over and there might be a slightly greater interest in focusing on standards and plans. But I doubt it.

 

Eventually, the pandemic will end. They all do. The question is how much non-repairable economic damage will have been done?

Second question is whether the various level of governments will work cooperatively? For instance will federal standards be accepted by the states, and will local governments agree to reopen ports based upon the federal standards? I doubt that very much.

 

Through out this pandemic we have seen a multitude of examples of every government level going off in different directions, unwilling to work together, or in many cases, even communicate. Most of that inability to work cooperatively was partisan driven.

 

Anyone thinking whoever loses in November is going to be motivated to work cooperatively to the benefit of the public has obviously little knowledge of history. The winner, whoever that is, will gloat. The loser will whine.

 

I would absolutely hate to be a cruise line executive in this environment. And to the extent that ill informed members of the cruising public opt to hold cruise line executives responsible for the inability of the various levels of government to work together, there is no incentive on the part of government to doing anything different. They do nothing, and the cruise industry gets to take the flack. What could be better for them?

[Nic6318]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

And will any countries accept Americans?

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/countries-closed-to-us-travelers

 

 

 

Hi

 

Yes. 

That's a big one. You can't come here, I can't visit you. 

 

Who knows, in the next few more months things can change, but for right now, even if cruising were allowed, the only people who can take a cruise leaving from a U.S. port need to reside in the U.S.. 

 

Without thinking too hard, something has to change if there will be a future for cruising. For those that don't care about others, and are just willing to sign some kind of waiver, so they can go on their cruise or to some other entertainment venue, I don't believe the rest of the world will buy into that. All countries will set their own requirements. How do you think they should make these determinations? Just as the U.S. tried to stop people from China and then Italy/E.U., based on statistics they saw at the time, U.S. closed their borders. Until the world community see numbers going in the right direction in the U.S., which world leader would take the chance to open it's borders to U.S. residents without significant restrictions. I gather the E.U. has already set a standard that the U.S. will need to work at to achieve. If enough people say, no it's too hard, or I don't have to do that, then it may never happen.