Key West could vote no mega ships

[FLSteve11]

While not ideal by any stretch.   Is there anything in there that would prevent a larger cruise ship from just tendering people in?    If they don't actually dock,  do they break the rule?  

[twangster]

1 hour ago, FLSteve11 said:

While not ideal by any stretch.   Is there anything in there that would prevent a larger cruise ship from just tendering people in?    If they don't actually dock,  do they break the rule?  

 

Cap of 1,500 cruise ship visitors per day, assuming that "count" survives the court actions. 

[twangster]

18 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

According to the Miami Herald, the only ships that meet the new criteria in order to dock in Key West, are the luxury cruise lines, Regent Seven Seas (owned by NCL), Silversea and Azamara (owned by RCG), and Seabourn (owned by Carnival).

 

Yeah and possibly only one of them per day.

 

Moot I guess, most of these fleets sail much more interesting destinations in other regions.  "Shall we sail to the Antarctic or Key West?  Hmmm."

[Merion_Mom]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:47 PM, twangster said:

Ironically it was a small ship that damaged the Mallory pier in 2018.

 

At the time the City claimed a loss of $10k per month in passenger landing fees for ships that wouldn't be able to dock at Mallory.  The City appears to own that berth so the amendment impairs no other party for that berth other than the harbor pilots who won't be needed for cruise ships to the same extent. 

 

Pier B appears to be owned by the Margaritaville Hotel.  Time will tell how they will handle the revenue loss. 

 

Losses for the Navy is harder to model.  Whatever revenue cruise ship fees docking at the base represent can be written off as "improved base security".  With improved technology, vessel and aircraft range plus satellite technology is the Naval Air Station in Key West even relevant anymore? They should probably close it.  With modern Naval technology it should be cheaper to cover the same area from the Florida mainland.  

 

@Aquahound ?????

[twangster]

7 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

@Aquahound ?????

 

NAS KW will long have a place where it is, that was a joke.  

 

The Navy has pretty much left the land in question.  Much property has been conveyed to City already.  The pier it seems remains a lease.  If the City terminates the lease because of this action, it's peanuts to the gov't in the big picture.  

Edited November 10, 2020 by twangster

[livingonthebeach]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

 

Yeah and possibly only one of them per day.

 

Moot I guess, most of these fleets sail much more interesting destinations in other regions.  "Shall we sail to the Antarctic or Key West?  Hmmm."

 

True, the small luxury lines will probably bypass Key West as there are more interesting, competing destinations.

 

The City Manager has spoken to the cruise lines and here's what the cruise lines have said:

 

"City Manager Greg Veliz told the Keys Weekly the morning after the election, “Obviously this will go to court, which could take years, and we’ll have to defend the amendments to our city charter. I’m sure Pier B will file suit.”

 

When asked whether he’s met with any cruise industry representatives to discuss whether they would send the “smaller, safer ships” to Key West rather than the larger ships that have come here since the 1980s, Veliz said, “I have met with the cruise industry officials, and the same companies that own the smaller ships also own the bigger ships. I don’t mind telling you guys exactly what they told me, which is, that inviting the smaller ships to come to Key West, but not the big ones is like inviting me to your dinner party, but not my wife and kids.”

 

https://keysweekly.com/42/key-west-bids-bon-voyage-to-large-cruise-ships-lawsuits-anticipated/

[twangster]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Veliz said, “I have met with the cruise industry officials, and the same companies that own the smaller ships also own the bigger ships. I don’t mind telling you guys exactly what they told me, which is, that inviting the smaller ships to come to Key West, but not the big ones is like inviting me to your dinner party, but not my wife and kids.”

 

I love the analogy!

 

The groups organizing the ballot item would be perfectly fine with zero ships coming, small, medium, large, all.   It's looks like they marketed their agenda well and initially secured their will.  

 

Time will tell. 

[bouhunter]

12 hours ago, twangster said:

 

Yeah and possibly only one of them per day.

 

Moot I guess, most of these fleets sail much more interesting destinations in other regions.  "Shall we sail to the Antarctic or Key West?  Hmmm."

Key West.

[bouhunter]

Just now, bouhunter said:

Key West 🙂

 

 

[Aquahound]

12 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

@Aquahound ?????

 

Hi Carol. 🙂

 

While the Navy still owns OM, it is managed by the city.  The $12 per person port charge goes to the city, but the city does pay some sort of stipend to the Navy.  

 

Pier B is private property, but still subject to the laws of the city regarding ship visits.  The port fees all go to the resort.

 

By the way, I left my beloved home of KW 4 years ago.  After a stint in the Big Easy, I'm living in Seattle now.  So, I'm posting from memory about KW.  Some things may have changed.  🙂

 

 

[twangster]

6 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

Key West.

 

Great news.  Between Seabourne, Regent Seven Seas, Silver Sea and Azamara there appear to be twenty one cruises available to book that stop in Key West through the bookable window into 2022. 

 

2021 - 9 stops

2022 - 11 stops   

 

Granted only Azamara and Seven Seas have released 2022 bookings.  If Silver Sea repeats the 2021 calls on Key West add two more stops in 2022.  

 

Bargain rates on sale for as low as $7,300 for a couple up over $26k on some sailings but the service is really good at that rate.  

 

Four in the RCG family, two on Azamara, two on Silver Sea.  The rest are on Regent Seven Seas.  

 

If the charter amendment went into effect on Jan. 1. 2021 Silver Sea has one stop in January and one in April.  Azamara has a stop in November and one in December of 2021.  

 

Seven Seas will be the predominant cruise line in Key West now.  Some months they even stop twice.   Five calls in 2021, eleven in 2022.  One ship has 490 passengers, the other 750 passengers.  

 

KW will hardly know a ship is in town.  Just what the voters have demanded.  

[Merion_Mom]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

 

Hi Carol. 🙂

 

While the Navy still owns OM, it is managed by the city.  The $12 per person port charge goes to the city, but the city does pay some sort of stipend to the Navy.  

 

Pier B is private property, but still subject to the laws of the city regarding ship visits.  The port fees all go to the resort.

 

By the way, I left my beloved home of KW 4 years ago.  After a stint in the Big Easy, I'm living in Seattle now.  So, I'm posting from memory about KW.  Some things may have changed.  🙂

 

 

 

I know.  I just wanted to get your input on "Navy property".  🙂 

 

Best to you and T.

 

(Loved your episode on House Hunters.  Or whichever series it was.  😄 ) 

[bouhunter]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

 

Great news.  Between Seabourne, Regent Seven Seas, Silver Sea and Azamara there appear to be twenty one cruises available to book that stop in Key West through the bookable window into 2022. 

 

2021 - 9 stops

2022 - 11 stops   

 

Granted only Azamara and Seven Seas have released 2022 bookings.  If Silver Sea repeats the 2021 calls on Key West add two more stops in 2022.  

 

Bargain rates on sale for as low as $7,300 for a couple up over $26k on some sailings but the service is really good at that rate.  

 

Four in the RCG family, two on Azamara, two on Silver Sea.  The rest are on Regent Seven Seas.  

 

If the charter amendment went into effect on Jan. 1. 2021 Silver Sea has one stop in January and one in April.  Azamara has a stop in November and one in December of 2021.  

 

Seven Seas will be the predominant cruise line in Key West now.  Some months they even stop twice.   Five calls in 2021, eleven in 2022.  One ship has 490 passengers, the other 750 passengers.  

 

KW will hardly know a ship is in town.  Just what the voters have demanded.  

We'll be driving there while we're in Florida for the winter.

[davekathy]

Now I'm craving a slice of key lime pie. 

[baldilocks]

We are just planning to fly down to Key West in December 2021 and stay at our Bluegreen condo in Marathon. We are going to give up on ship visits.

[Coralc]

1 hour ago, baldilocks said:

We are just planning to fly down to Key West in December 2021 and stay at our Bluegreen condo in Marathon. We are going to give up on ship visits.

 

What's a Bluegreen condo? Is that a company/complex or timeshare? 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Coralc

[baldilocks]

Bluegreen Vacation Club is a point based timeshare. We use it to travel around the country. We have 50+ destinations that we can use with our points (RCI exchange is available, but we don't use it). Prior to cruises we go to Orlando, St. Pete, Daytona or Miami with our ownership. Our next trip in April is to Phoenix (Peoria). We like the freedom not to be tied to one resort.

 

If you consider timeshare ownership, please be aware that it is not for everyone. Read the small print and take your time. Resales of timeshares go for about a tenth of their original cost. It is NOT an investment for profit. It is an investment in having a much nicer and larger unit on vacation then you could have by just going to a hotel or spending more money on a resort. 

 

We have recouped our initial investment comparing Bluegreen cost to resort costs around us. Example: We stayed in the New Orleans French Quarter during Jazz Fest just prior to a Royal repositioning cruise. The rack rack for two nights was $938.50. We paid $50 due to a reservation change fee. The only rooms available during Jazz Fest at that time were in the Garden District miles away.

[ducklite]

On 11/6/2020 at 4:54 PM, twangster said:

 

Not spending a dime except for an estimated $85m contributed to the economy annually and 1,250 direct or indirect jobs.

 

I get it.   If you own a hotel day tourists contribute very little to your bottom line.  When I stayed on Sugarloaf Key they felt the same way in Key West.  There is much cheaper accommodations 10-20 miles away and if you have a car it's an easy drive.   So they tried to reduce parking to encourage people to stay in Key West.   

 

Just like the hotel and shopping mall probably realized little revenue from cruise ship visitors the appliance stores and the hardware stores saw few day visitors buying a toaster.   Not all businesses benefit from day visitors in any tourist town.  That applies to beach or tourist towns all over America.

 

It is a complete exaggeration to say that cruise ships visitors don't spend a dime.  

They did a lot of polling of people who were prospective visitors to Key West.  A disproportionate number stated they wouldn't visit when it was cruise ship season.  They did the math, and decided they will lose the cruise ship business in favor of the people who visit and stay.  The amount of revenue that type of tourist generates is millions more than the cruise ships--with much lower impact on their quality of life.  

[ducklite]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:02 PM, twangster said:

 

Great news.  Between Seabourne, Regent Seven Seas, Silver Sea and Azamara there appear to be twenty one cruises available to book that stop in Key West through the bookable window into 2022. 

 

2021 - 9 stops

2022 - 11 stops   

 

Granted only Azamara and Seven Seas have released 2022 bookings.  If Silver Sea repeats the 2021 calls on Key West add two more stops in 2022.  

 

Bargain rates on sale for as low as $7,300 for a couple up over $26k on some sailings but the service is really good at that rate.  

 

Four in the RCG family, two on Azamara, two on Silver Sea.  The rest are on Regent Seven Seas.  

 

If the charter amendment went into effect on Jan. 1. 2021 Silver Sea has one stop in January and one in April.  Azamara has a stop in November and one in December of 2021.  

 

Seven Seas will be the predominant cruise line in Key West now.  Some months they even stop twice.   Five calls in 2021, eleven in 2022.  One ship has 490 passengers, the other 750 passengers.  

 

KW will hardly know a ship is in town.  Just what the voters have demanded.  

Windstar also has itineraries from time to time that include a stop in Key West.  Max passenger load is 350-ish.

[twangster]

12 minutes ago, ducklite said:

They did a lot of polling of people who were prospective visitors to Key West.  A disproportionate number stated they wouldn't visit when it was cruise ship season.  They did the math, and decided they will lose the cruise ship business in favor of the people who visit and stay.  The amount of revenue that type of tourist generates is millions more than the cruise ships--with much lower impact on their quality of life.  

 

Polls are easily manipulated by asking questions that lead to the answer the pollster is seeking.  

[ducklite]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Polls are easily manipulated by asking questions that lead to the answer the pollster is seeking.  

Well, as someone who lives within driving distance of KW who has in the past and would continue to spend long weekends there, I can say we've avoided it due to the level of cruise ships dropping off thousands of day trippers.  With the small ships we would never notice, so would be far more inclined to vist.

[livingonthebeach]

3 hours ago, ducklite said:

They did a lot of polling of people who were prospective visitors to Key West.  A disproportionate number stated they wouldn't visit when it was cruise ship season.  They did the math, and decided they will lose the cruise ship business in favor of the people who visit and stay.  The amount of revenue that type of tourist generates is millions more than the cruise ships--with much lower impact on their quality of life.  

 

Cruise ship season KW is basically year round, although there are a few more ships November - February. Personally, I haven't noticed a huge difference during any specific month and I drive there often. Best is to check the cruise port schedule and plan accordingly, but now that the restrictions have passed, I guess it's a moot point.

[Coralc]

On 11/12/2020 at 3:44 PM, baldilocks said:

If you consider timeshare ownership, please be aware that it is not for everyone. Read the small print and take your time. Resales of timeshares go for about a tenth of their original cost. It is NOT an investment for profit. It is an investment in having a much nicer and larger unit on vacation then you could have by just going to a hotel or spending more money on a resort. 

 

Thanks! We are not considering a timeshare. I had just never heard of Bluegreen or a Bluegreen condo. Thank you for the explanation. If we ever did consider one, it would be from the resale market. 

[Seville2Cabo]

7 hours ago, Coralc said:

Thanks! We are not considering a timeshare. I had just never heard of Bluegreen or a Bluegreen condo. Thank you for the explanation. If we ever did consider one, it would be from the resale market. 

eBay has pages of timeshares for $1.00