Key West could vote no mega ships

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

You can do a lot in a day if you leave the ship once it docks.  Lobster season (upper and lower Keys) gets mostly people from Miami and that's usually only a few days.  

But I bet they spend more money than cruise passengers. Heck, everyone here only sails for 3/unlimited free drinks during HH. How much you think they will spend in KW?  

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

2 million in port fees plus 68 million in passenger spending = 70 million per year - not chump change IMHO. 

Port Fees is not spending in KW. 

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, Milwaukee Eight said:

But I bet they spend more money than cruise passengers. Heck, everyone here only sails for 3/unlimited free drinks during HH. How much you think they will spend in KW?  

 

I'm sure they do in a few days but its not the 68 million cruise ship passengers spend in a year.  You're talking about the Diamond Lounge HH drink thread LOL - there a few tightwads on that one - that's for sure.  Maybe they don't go to Key West.  LOL🤣

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Port Fees is not spending in KW. 

 

"City Port Director Jim Fitton said cruise ship disembarkation fees bring in $2 million a year to the city's general fund. Cruise ship passengers in Key West spend about $84 a day, which equates to $68 million a year being pumped into the local economy, according to Fitton, the chamber and business owners."

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

You're talking about the Diamond Lounge HH drink thread LOL - there a few tightwads on that one - that's for sure.  Maybe they don't go to Key West.  LOL🤣

You’re probably nailed it on this one. Do they remove the mirror in their cabin. 😇

[Merion_Mom]

I have been in Costa Maya with two large ships and it was not crowded.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You’re probably nailed it on this one. Do they remove the mirror in their cabin. 😇

 

They take the blow dryer, bible, window treatments, sheets, towels, glasses, art work and even TP.  😱

[Tapi]

6 hours ago, molly361 said:

I can't think of any ships that go there that carry less than 1500 people

If this passes and is enforced, Key West would become a port of call for the luxury cruise lines and the smallest of some mid-market cruise lines like Holland America.

 

I’ve been thinking about this initiative in Key West and it reminds me of when Charleston attempted to ban cruise ships as well. At the time, the fine print in the measure seemed to target specifically Carnival, rather than the cruise industry as a whole. It was said that the measure was proposed by the Charleston elite that despised the idea of budget minded Carnival sailing from there. 
 

I’m now wondering if something similar is happening in Key West, with a small group of people with a lot of power and deep pockets attempting to keep out the more budget minded passengers that would arrive aboard mass market cruise lines like Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Norwegian and MSC while still providing access to the luxury and premium passengers that won’t be affected by this initiative. The specific capacity numbers proposed seem more than arbitrary, but instead chosen to specifically benefit the luxury market while keeping the mass market out.
 

This is all speculation in my part, but I’ve seen it before. It wouldn’t surprise me if what I wrote is what’s truly behind this proposal. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tapi

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Tapi said:

If this passes and is enforced, Key West would become a port of call for the luxury cruise lines and the smallest of some mid-market cruise lines like Holland America.

 

I’ve been thinking about this initiative in Key West and it reminds me of when Charleston attempted to ban cruise ships as well. At the time, the fine print in the measure seemed to target specifically Carnival, rather than the cruise industry as a whole. It was said that the measure was proposed by Charleston elitist that despised the idea of budget minded Carnival sailing from there. 
 

I’m now wondering if something similar is happening in Key West, with a small group of people with a lot of power and deep pockets attempting to keep out the more budget minded passengers that would arrive aboard mass market cruise lines like Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Norwegian and MSC while still providing access to the luxury and premium passengers that won’t be affected by this initiative. The specific capacity numbers proposed seem more than arbitrary, but more to target a specific market. 
 

This is all speculation, but I’ve seen it before. It wouldn’t surprise me if what I wrote is what’s truly behind this proposal. 

 

The money that is spent by passengers is by the dock near Duval Street.  Don't know if you've ever been but it is far from upscale.  Those businesses would never attract high net-worth customers.  It's not Worth Ave or Rodeo Drive -- far from it.  

 

There is a group of environmentalists that don't want cruise ships due to the damage to the eco-system it does to the area. 

They claim they cause huge silt plumes like this one caught on satelite. 

https://www.keywesttravelguide.com/caught-on-satellite-key-west-cruise-ship-causing-huge-silt-plume/

[deliver42]

No ships over 1500 pass? Wait till they try to balance their budget with no cruise passengers feeding the rip off tourist industry.

[Tapi]

37 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The money that is spent by passengers is by the dock near Duval Street.  Don't know if you've ever been but it is far from upscale.  Those businesses would never attract high net-worth customers.  It's not Worth Ave or Rodeo Drive -- far from it.  

I’ve been traveling to Key West both by land and sea for decades, and I’ve seen how the waterfront has changed and become what it is today, with many stores catering to the budget minded tourist. Key West’s charm and history are now intertwined with $5 t shirt and crappy souvenir stores. 
 

And that’s part of the point that I’m trying to make. Key West citizens who don’t benefit directly from these budget stores and attractions, and who yearn for the Key West of yesteryear, may be the ones behind the initiative. A smaller but vocal and powerful few who want Key West to be what it once was by driving away what has made these budget stores and attractions flourish and multiply. Get rid of the mass market cruise lines and these businesses will go away with them. 
 

If that’s indeed what’s going on, I do understand their motivation. If I were a life long resident of a quaint and historic town, suddenly taken over by cheap souvenir stores and hordes of day trippers, I would also try everything legally possible to drive them out and return my town to its original glory. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tapi

[Merion_Mom]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I posted it elsewhere, I'd have to look for it. It's the one I got the title mayor wrong and meriom mom jumped all over me so I got the exact quote.

 

The MAYOR of roatan put in their local newspapers no cruiseships allowed until into 2021. .. no set date whatever into 2021 means.

 

My roll call got that from private excursion guy.

 

I'm thinking they will sub Belize:(  I go there next Feb. Sounds as iffy to me to be open by then.

 

LOL, sensitive much?

I hardly "jumped all over" you. You cited the "president of Roatan" and I merely pointed out that Roatan is not a country, but an island in the country of Honduras.

 

I like correct information being posted on Cruise Critic, including about the ports that RC visits.

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, Tapi said:

I’ve been traveling to Key West both by land and sea for decades, and I’ve seen how the waterfront has changed and become what it is today, with many stores catering to the budget minded tourist. Key West charm is now intertwined with $5 t shirt and crappy souvenir stores. 
 

And that’s part of the point that I’m trying to make. Key West citizens who don’t benefit directly from these budget stores and attractions, and who yearn for the Key West of yesteryear, may be the ones behind the initiative. A smaller but vocal and powerful few who want Key West to be what it once was by driving away what has made these budget stores and attractions flourish and multiply. Get rid of the mass market cruise lines and these businesses will go away with them. 

 

Yes you have a point.  There could be more to gain if the area were a bit beautified and gentrified, but it would be a long process. If the referendum is voted in then, definitely the smaller luxury ships would be the ones docking there and businesses would have to cater to that market.  Everything is in constant flux in business and hopefully adaptation to a better KW works out for them. 

[zekekelso]

The question - which nobody knows the answer to, but everyone has an opinion, is to what extent cruise passengers crowd out more valuable customers. This isn't a Key West question, but one we are seeing all over the world. 

 

Another perception (again, nobody actually knows) is that cruise passengers - more so than overnighters - shop at places like Diamonds International, where almost none of the money stays in town except for a few low income emplotyees.

 

Finally, cruise line greed (not that there is anything wrong with greed) has pissed off a lot of people in port towns. The cruise lines don't want people spending money in town... they want people giving all their port money to the cruise line for excursions. 

[TNcruising02]

59 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

I have been in Costa Maya with two large ships and it was not crowded.

I wish it was that way for my last cruise in March.  It was the most crowded I have ever seen a port area.  I think another Oasis ship was in the port the same day, but I am not positive.  Whatever it was, it was the craziest thing I had ever seen.  I had been to Costa Maya several other times when it was fine.  It must have been just a crazy day.  If anyone else was on the Harmony the last week it cruised this year and got off at that port, they will know what I am talking about.

Edited July 13, 2020 by TNcruising02

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

The question - which nobody knows the answer to, but everyone has an opinion, is to what extent cruise passengers crowd out more valuable customers. This isn't a Key West question, but one we are seeing all over the world. 

 

Another perception (again, nobody actually knows) is that cruise passengers - more so than overnighters - shop at places like Diamonds International, where almost none of the money stays in town except for a few low income emplotyees.

 

Finally, cruise line greed (not that there is anything wrong with greed) has pissed off a lot of people in port towns. The cruise lines don't want people spending money in town... they want people giving all their port money to the cruise line for excursions. 

 

There are mixed feelings in the port towns.  There are those that don't want the environmental impact and those that profit from the cruise lines.  There will always be for and against opinions. 

 

It's true that the cruise lines try to dictate which shops the passengers frequent in order to obtain a cut from those businesses as well as which tours (cruise line sanctioned) are taken, again for a piece of the pie -- perceived as greed by some while some are of the opinion it's a business like any other, in existence to generate profit. 

[davekathy]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What do cruisers spend in Key West? I’m not sure they would really miss the passengers that visit there. 

I don't know or can speak for what others do or spend while in Key West or any other port. None of my business or concern.  My post only addressed us (my wife and I). I'll let you draw your own conclusion. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by davekathy

[Merion_Mom]

34 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I wish it was that way for my last cruise in March.  It was the most crowded I have ever seen a port area.  I think another Oasis ship was in the port the same day, but I am not positive.  Whatever it was, it was the craziest thing I had ever seen.  I had been to Costa Maya several other times when it was fine.  It must have been just a crazy day.  If anyone else was on the Harmony the last week it cruised this year and got off at that port, they will know what I am talking about.

 

Just guessing, but maybe the problem was too many people staying in that initial port area instead of spreading out and doing other things nearby.

 

There are many great things to do when your ship docks in Costa Maya.  I particularly like www.thenativechoice.com

 

 

☺️

[Missusdubbya]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

But I bet they spend more money than cruise passengers. Heck, everyone here only sails for 3/unlimited free drinks during HH. How much you think they will spend in KW?  

OMG generalise much? I am not trying to be offensive, but seriously, @Milwaukee Eightyou are bringing this up a lot, and it seems petty and is getting boring.

 

I would think those with free drinks would be more likely to spend on drinks in ports like Key West than those with drinks packages? 
 

Embrace diversity, rather than criticising people for actions different to yours.

[CSHS1979]

4 hours ago, bouhunter said:

Good list for starters.  Key West has a lot to offer.  Water sports, history, beautiful old buildings, great food and entertainment.  And it's pretty fun after dark 🙂

 

 

I thought ships had to be gone before dark?

 

[CSHS1979]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

"City Port Director Jim Fitton said cruise ship disembarkation fees bring in $2 million a year to the city's general fund. Cruise ship passengers in Key West spend about $84 a day, which equates to $68 million a year being pumped into the local economy, according to Fitton, the chamber and business owners."

 

Last time we were there, Rhapsody,  I spent $5 at CVS. That was all

[Merion_Mom]

9 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

I thought ships had to be gone before dark?

 

 

Before sunset.  Their sunsets are beautiful, and also, sacrosanct.  😄 

[Iamcruzin]

9 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Stomping grounds of Ernest Hemingway for one -- Hemingway House, Sloppy Joes, Blue Heaven, etc.  There's the Old Town Trolley and the HO HO.  Duval Street has many quirky boutiques, restaurants and bars. The Lighthouse museum, the Truman Museum, the Southernmost Point.  There's great scuba diving, snorkeling, kayaking and the Dry Tortugas. And of course the best Key Lime Pie!  No I don't work for the tourist board. LOL 😃

It sounds like a place that I would want to spend more than a few hours visiting. We visit Florida quite often. I probably need to plan a few days there. 

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

LOL, sensitive much?

I hardly "jumped all over" you. You cited the "president of Roatan" and I merely pointed out that Roatan is not a country, but an island in the country of Honduras.

 

I like correct information being posted on Cruise Critic, including about the ports that RC visits.

And I merely stated a fact as well. So I went and got the exact quote and posted it as in the past you have repeatedly asked me to quote sources, which I did when I posted his incorrect title.

 

And I admitted yes turns out it was the mayor, but still the message was correct except for his title. I've tried to help people with what information i know and have said often this I've read and there have been times when others have stated this is why. Like when i said i read someone was able to transfer their $18 drink pkg, so.ive read mixed results. Someone came along behind me and said it was because they were told wrong but it was honored, so now I know. 

 

I agree when you do it I dont like the manner in which you say I'm wrong. You have even accused me of politics when no politics were meant. Maybe we can find a kinder way to talk.

 

I will continue posting what I've read and try to help people with questions as that is my nature to want to help. I posted the information from the excursion guide in Roatan to help the same way I thought people booking their perfect Bahamas day would want to know about this vote. Notice I put up the link so there would be no question where I got the information from. I have done this trying to avoid just this kind of interchange. I've been going out of my way to provide my sources after your crack that I must have heard it on Fox news ... you brought politics into this, not myself. And yet again you post "sensitive much" and taken another cheap shot. Treat me with respect and I'll do the same. I wouldn't be bullied. I will continue to go out of my way to post sources, but cheap shots/personal remarks are unnecessary and unworthy of you. I know you for many years and know you are better than this. Find a better way of communicating with me, and I will continue to provide sources that you demand and help when I can.

 

 

[firefly333]

24 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

It sounds like a place that I would want to spend more than a few hours visiting. We visit Florida quite often. I probably need to plan a few days there. 

I've walked to the southernmost point and his house is along the way. I cant remember the entrance fee, $10 maybe more. I wanted to see the descendants of Hemingway's 6 toed cats lol. There is a regular walking tour, of other pts of interest, but I especially wanted to see the descendants of his 6 toed cats. I lived in Boca so drove down there several times. 

 

One thing you now miss but I've done before and many years ago rcl did a later stop is everyone goes to Mallorys square at sun down and there are many crazy vendors.,guys with lizards and snakes. The main thing is everyone claps when the sun sets. Now this cant be done if you cruise in. Maybe it was at least 15 years ago rcl used to do this later stop in key west. There are some other historic bldgs near Hemingway's house I visited. I didnt care about some tourist version of key lime pie, but I went everywhere to see stuff on my list, lol even to their library. 

 

Idk how interested you are in key west, I love historic homes. The beach there is nothing. Its key west itself. We even went to the night club where jimmy buffet used to sing. Had to have a margarita in margaritaville where he used to sing. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by firefly333