P&O November cruises not available

[No pager thank you]

11 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Many, if not most, are doing the same thing, in the hopes that when the cruise is cancelled the customer will choose to either roll the money over to another cruise or accept a future cruise credit instead of a refund.

The cruise line can then tell the trade press and shareholders that people are extremely keen to cruise, as proven by the fact that so many people have paid for a future cruise.....

As far as I can tell, quite a lot of people do either roll the money over to another cruise, or take the FCC, so it sees to be a system that works.

Correct.  The benefit is retaining the strength of future bookings by trying to dis-incentivising refunds.

 

This is done simply by:

 

- Making the customer think that they are getting a 25% benefit / discount, when the reality is that their future booking may well cost more, so there is no bonus to be had.

 

- Making the alternative difficult for the customer to receive. 

 

Therefore, people either give up in frustration, or believe "well I would have spent the money anyway on a cruise," - why not just take the FCC and come back to this when it all blows over and there is a vaccine?

 

Meanwhile, prices shoot up, the customer entitlement to a refund eventually expires (which it does under P&O policy), and their money then becomes a depreciating gift voucher without the cash underpin.

[Presto2]

Well we have some FCC and also have a cruise booked for April 2021. Can't see is doing that one as it is the flying that worries me more than the ship ......... looks like we will try to move it to as far away as possible or cancel. Would be interesting to see when the cruises for 2022 come out as it is usually early September. 

[No pager thank you]

6 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Well we have some FCC and also have a cruise booked for April 2021. Can't see is doing that one as it is the flying that worries me more than the ship ......... looks like we will try to move it to as far away as possible or cancel. Would be interesting to see when the cruises for 2022 come out as it is usually early September. 

I agree - objective at the moment has to be to keep safe and avoid paying P&O any more money!

 

The (slightly more) cynical side of me suggests that the September brochure launch will be delayed, until early in the New Year - reference uncertainty.

 

At the moment, customers with cancelled cruises have until 30th November 2020 to request a refund.  After this date, the refund automatically becomes a FCC.

 

If P&O move the goalposts again and change the validity date of the FCCs (I.e. away from all cruises currently on sale) or more likely charge high transfer fees for (possibly high priced) 2022 sailings, then the customers will ultimately lose out.

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, ann141 said:

 P and O are receiving the interest on the large balances people are paying and as already stated they hope that people will transfer their cruise to a cruise in the future rather than take a refund.

The comercial rate of interest is not that high to warrant the expense of taking in money than refunding it.

[No pager thank you]

2 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

The comercial rate of interest is not that high to warrant the expense of taking in money than refunding it.

A fair point, however it is always valuable to convey to shareholders that the fundamentals of the business are strong, even with a pandemic.

 

This can be achieved by reducing refund volumes and increasing future cruise credits to maintain a strong onward order book.  Some people might say that making refunds difficult is a strategy that helps this business objective.

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

I agree - objective at the moment has to be to keep safe and avoid paying P&O any more money!

 

The (slightly more) cynical side of me suggests that the September brochure launch will be delayed, until early in the New Year - reference uncertainty.

 

At the moment, customers with cancelled cruises have until 30th November 2020 to request a refund.  After this date, the refund automatically becomes a FCC.

 

If P&O move the goalposts again and change the validity date of the FCCs (I.e. away from all cruises currently on sale) or more likely charge high transfer fees for (possibly high priced) 2022 sailings, then the customers will ultimately lose out.

You view is worst case scenario my view is if they cancel you ask for a refund simple as that,for us we would be looking at 2022 because we have cruises booked for next year, and by the look of things there mostly fully booked.

The bottom line is you do what you think is right for yourself

[ann141]

5 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

The comercial rate of interest is not that high to warrant the expense of taking in money than refunding it.

But if lots of people pay the balance and then take FCC instead of a refund the interest mounts up even at very low rates at present

[Bazrat]

Just now, No pager thank you said:

A fair point, however it is always valuable to convey to shareholders that the fundamentals of the business are strong, even with a pandemic.

 

This can be achieved by reducing refund volumes and increasing future cruise credits to maintain a strong onward order book.  Some people might say that making refunds difficult is a strategy that helps this business objective.

Share holders I mean the large shareholders would not be taken in by that ploy, they just look at the bottom line and the projected income stream.

[No pager thank you]

Just now, Bazrat said:

 

The bottom line is you do what you think is right for yourself

I agree with you here.

 

If you accept a Future Cruise Credit, particularly a high value one, then do so with your eyes open.  It's not as good a deal as it might seem, whereas cash can always be spent.

[Bazrat]

1 minute ago, ann141 said:

But if lots of people pay the balance and then take FCC instead of a refund the interest mounts up even at very low rates at present

Your making an assumption they will do that the feeling I get is that people are going for refunds

[ann141]

1 minute ago, Bazrat said:

Your making an assumption they will do that the feeling I get is that people are going for refunds

I honestly don;t know but from reading these boards it appears that some are taking FCC others refunds.No idea what proportion of each

[No pager thank you]

Just now, Bazrat said:

Share holders I mean the large shareholders would not be taken in by that ploy, they just look at the bottom line and the projected income stream.

Also a fair point.  Whilst Carnival has a lot of smaller shareholders, the company is faced with significant debt refinancing issues and increasing rates as others have commented. 

 

Being kind, I could say that refunds are not the business priority in the current climate - although the company says otherwise.  Definitely they want customers to take FCCs instead.

 

However you also have to say as it's now an automatic (as opposed to manual) system for refunds, how can it still take months if there is not some sort of strategy going on?  Plus there is the choice not move 90 day balance due dates - that is a business decision.

 

This is why I do not personally believe that they are trying their best to return customers money as soon as possible.

 

1 minute ago, Bazrat said:

Your making an assumption they will do that the feeling I get is that people are going for refunds

No, the majority (but decreasing) are taking FCCs at the moment (that surprised me too).  It's quite surprising how many people haven't realised how expensive next year's cruises are.

[No pager thank you]

6 minutes ago, ann141 said:

I honestly don;t know but from reading these boards it appears that some are taking FCC others refunds.No idea what proportion of each

I think I read about 65:35 FCC over refund, going down a bit now Ann.  Happy to be corrected if someone has the up to date company number.

[Dermotsgirl]

46 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

 

 

No, the majority (but decreasing) are taking FCCs at the moment (that surprised me too).  It's quite surprising how many people haven't realised how expensive next year's cruises are.

I also think it’s because, at first, people thought this was a temporary situation, and normal cruising would return fairly soon.

 

It’s becoming more apparent this is likely to be a long term problem, with no clear end date, therefore I fell that people will now be keener to take the refund. 

[No pager thank you]

13 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I also think it’s because, at first, people thought this was a temporary situation, and normal cruising would return fairly soon.

 

It’s becoming more apparent this is likely to be a long term problem, with no clear end date, therefore I fell that people will now be keener to take the refund. 

Yes I agree.  Unfortunately, more people have less disposable income now which will influence thinking too.

[molecrochip]

It’s now about 50:50 refunds to FCC.

 

Im not getting into the cash conservation v refund problems discussion, myself and Selbourne have done that enough!

 

What I can tell you is that there is still a bit of an March / April black hole. My latest understanding is that most other refunds should now be done.

[bee-ess]

Anyone think there will be a P&O announcement extending the pause today ?

 

[Manx buoy]

4 hours ago, molecrochip said:

It’s now about 50:50 refunds to FCC.

 

Im not getting into the cash conservation v refund problems discussion, myself and Selbourne have done that enough!

 

What I can tell you is that there is still a bit of an March / April black hole. My latest understanding is that most other refunds should now be done.

Not so if you look at the FB and Twitter feeds loads still waiting from all different dates

[Oulton Jim]

32 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Anyone think there will be a P&O announcement extending the pause today ?

 

 It would be based on how the talks are going between the cruise companies and the CDC. 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

 It would be based on how the talks are going between the cruise companies and the CDC. 

Whilst the CDC is important for those cruises operating in US waters, as far as P&O is concerned , the CDC can say what it likes, but it will be meaningless  unless the UK government changes its advice regarding cruises.

Given the current state of play, I can't see that advice changing any time this year. 

[Oulton Jim]

You have a valid point there Wowzz

[davecttr]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Whilst the CDC is important for those cruises operating in US waters, as far as P&O is concerned , the CDC can say what it likes, but it will be meaningless  unless the UK government changes its advice regarding cruises.

Given the current state of play, I can't see that advice changing any time this year. 

For European waters this applies from the European Maritime Safety Agency. I imagine it is basically similar to the CDC stuff

http://emsa.europa.eu/emsa-documents/latest/item/3978-covid-19-eu-guidance-for-cruise-ship-operations.html

 

[Oulton Jim]

The current situation begs the question, how many of the cruise lines will be in operation by the time the cruise market is truly open.

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, davecttr said:

For European waters this applies from the European Maritime Safety Agency. I imagine it is basically similar to the CDC stuff

http://emsa.europa.eu/emsa-documents/latest/item/3978-covid-19-eu-guidance-for-cruise-ship-operations.html

 

Thanks fir that.

Can't say that I'm au fait with the details of CDC advice, but I would have thought they would be pretty similar. After all, most of the recommendations are hardly rocket science !

But even following these recommendations,  there is no guarantee that all will be ok - the latest news from the Hurtigruten cruise shows how difficult it is to sail in these CV19 times.

If the UK government is advising its citizens not to travel to virtually risk free areas such as the Canaries,  there is no way it will alter it's stance on cruising any time soon

[No pager thank you]

24 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Whilst the CDC is important for those cruises operating in US waters, as far as P&O is concerned , the CDC can say what it likes, but it will be meaningless  unless the UK government changes its advice regarding cruises.

Given the current state of play, I can't see that advice changing any time this year. 

The reality is, assuming the discussions about Azura and Britannia are correct,  P&O knows that it does not plan to effect a full restart from 15th October with all ships in the fleet.  The advice is going the wrong way at the moment too.

 

However, P&O is still insisting on full balance payments for Aurora and Arcadia for October - strongly suspected not to be part of any attempted initial restart protocol, again based on the same discussion. 

 

Each Tuesday at 10am which passes, this gets a bit naughtier. 

 

10 weeks to go this week - so already 3 weeks of cruises paid for which are not explicitly expected to sail, even in an "upside scenario."