P&O Update

[Adawn47]

30 minutes ago, Converted to cruising said:

Hi. I transferred my  October T/A on Britannia which Was cancelled to the same one in October 2021. Solo equivalent on 2021 has gone up a mouthwatering £1000. I used my FCC so only have to pay another £350 towards it next year. I still got the same OBC. The way I looked at it was I wouldn’t have got the amount I got as FCC in any savings account so could not have afforded to book for next year. I suppose they have to make their money back somehow and it will be a long while before the cruising world gets back to ‘normal’ (if it ever does) so we will just have to accept the prices or not go. I don’t think any company will be any different. Let’s just hope for better days ahead 🚢🏖🍹🤞🏼😊

As you say, the increase in prices is just staggering. The 19 night Arcadia 2021 cruise we booked in October for £1,331pp is now £2,399pp.  If it keeps going up at this rate it will soon be double.

Avril

[No pager thank you]

59 minutes ago, Converted to cruising said:

Hi. I transferred my  October T/A on Britannia which Was cancelled to the same one in October 2021. Solo equivalent on 2021 has gone up a mouthwatering £1000. I used my FCC so only have to pay another £350 towards it next year. I still got the same OBC. The way I looked at it was I wouldn’t have got the amount I got as FCC in any savings account so could not have afforded to book for next year. I suppose they have to make their money back somehow and it will be a long while before the cruising world gets back to ‘normal’ (if it ever does) so we will just have to accept the prices or not go. I don’t think any company will be any different. Let’s just hope for better days ahead 🚢🏖🍹🤞🏼😊

That's a fair enough way to look at it.  I must say though is that I doubt that the "market" will tolerate such high prices for cruises for three main reasons:

 

1) Many people will have choices of "staycations" or more traditional beach, resort, or exploration holidays to "safe" places.  Here, supply and demand is not fixed.  Some of the traditional hotel / beach holiday abroad prices are quite low at the moment.

 

2) Once the supply of Future Cruise Credits dries up, then the real money that passengers will be expected to pay will bite, whereas the numbers of berths to be filled is going up across the fleet.  This will become less tolerable if people don't get the full experience, range of facilities, amenities because of social distancing etc.

 

3) I don't think that every cruise company is attempting the same pricing strategy of Carnival to the same extent.  Sure prices are going up but there are lots of good deals to be had elsewhere for 2021/22 at the moment.

 

My take is that prices and assumed demand is artificially high at the moment because of the Future Cruise Credits.  As a positive, I think that this will actually lead to lower prices eventually for passengers.😎

[Dermotsgirl]

I saw this article about Fred Olsen

 

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/383946/fred-olsen-to-take-baby-steps-on-resumption

 

It looks like they intend to start very cautiously, at some yet unknown date in 2021, and keep close to home, and then build from there as the year progresses.  This seems very sensible, and what with Cunard's announcement yesterday, I will be hoping for P&O's next update to be much more substantive than another 4 week pause.  It doesn't seem realistic to start in the Caribbean with fly cruises, or the 35 night Ventura cruises that they still haven't cancelled

[Son of Anarchy]

Just wondering whether there will be another tranche of cancellations in the next couple of weeks.  Balances are due for Christmas cruises from around 13 September (direct bookings).

 

It was previously mentioned that cancelling Christmas cruises would be quite emotive.  Even more so if people have paid their balance, and need their money back quickly to try and make alternative arrangements to get away.

 

The current pattern of Tuesday at 10:00 would mean a further announcement either this morning or next week, if PandO want to avoid fizzing off those who expect to be on of their ships at Christmas.

[molecrochip]

So I expected today to be about Iona, with the handover due last week. This has slipped, so who knows.

[Dermotsgirl]

15 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

So I expected today to be about Iona, with the handover due last week. This has slipped, so who knows.

I had 1st September at 10am in the Iona handover announcement sweepstake, so I’ve lost 😔

[No pager thank you]

43 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Just wondering whether there will be another tranche of cancellations in the next couple of weeks.  Balances are due for Christmas cruises from around 13 September (direct bookings).

 

It was previously mentioned that cancelling Christmas cruises would be quite emotive.  Even more so if people have paid their balance, and need their money back quickly to try and make alternative arrangements to get away.

 

The current pattern of Tuesday at 10:00 would mean a further announcement either this morning or next week, if PandO want to avoid fizzing off those who expect to be on of their ships at Christmas.

Yes, this affects us directly.  Decision day for us is 20th September.

 

I would doubt that a negative announcement would be made today, as with previous stoppages there have been staff briefings and early notices given to TAs.  This is difficult directly after a BH and implies the top brass working over that time.

 

As molecrochip has pointed out, there will be some difficulty in thinking about how to celebrate the handover of Iona, whilst in close proximity coming under pressure to make a definitive announcement about Christmas, which is emotive.

 

The company have caused the problem by declining flexibility over balance due dates.  With one major cruise line sailing and others having plans, but with some competitors now advance cancelling after P&Os latest stoppage, their stance of saying not a lot, not very often, is becoming tricky.  Although others disagreed before with me on this, it should now be possible for the company to outline, in high level terms, what type of passenger experience it is aiming to achieve upon any restart.  Or, to defer this uncertainty by extending the stoppage.

 

The Christmas cruises are expensive, fair enough.  However, to ask passengers to pay thousands three months out in the current circumstances, with at least a middling chance of a cancellation is poor form.

 

I would anticipate (hope) that something will be said on Tuesday 8th September - at 10am.

[Dermotsgirl]

53 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Just wondering whether there will be another tranche of cancellations in the next couple of weeks.  Balances are due for Christmas cruises from around 13 September (direct bookings).

 

It was previously mentioned that cancelling Christmas cruises would be quite emotive.  Even more so if people have paid their balance, and need their money back quickly to try and make alternative arrangements to get away.

 

The current pattern of Tuesday at 10:00 would mean a further announcement either this morning or next week, if PandO want to avoid fizzing off those who expect to be on of their ships at Christmas.

They announced a further 4 week pause last time, which, I think, was 3 weeks ago. So it would seem another announcement would be due next week.  But it’s anyone’s guess.

 

However, lines like Cunard and Fred have announced long delays and cautious startups, so P&O are starting to fall behind. There’s no way they can restart on 35 night Caribbean cruises or the Caribbean fly cruises ( particularly after the Tui incident on the flight from Zante, so their next announcement needs to be a bit more drastic than ‘we are monitoring the situation and here’s another 4 week pause’.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

As for the cost of cruises going up it's all done by a computer same as airfares. The more people that book or even look the price goes up. Less people booked for that route the price goes down. I noticed it when I was looking at flights for Barcelona next year. For the couple of weeks after I booked the flights the price was almost double, now they have dropped back down to just above what I paid for it. 

 

When I spoke with RCL the guy told me not to have another search whilst I was deciding (asking wife) as the computer system holds that room for a few hours and assumes there is more demand and prices automatically go up.

[Manx buoy]

25 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

They announced a further 4 week pause last time, which, I think, was 3 weeks ago. So it would seem another announcement would be due next week.  But it’s anyone’s guess.

 

However, lines like Cunard and Fred have announced long delays and cautious startups, so P&O are starting to fall behind. There’s no way they can restart on 35 night Caribbean cruises or the Caribbean fly cruises ( particularly after the Tui incident on the flight from Zante, so their next announcement needs to be a bit more drastic than ‘we are monitoring the situation and here’s another 4 week pause’.

As it’s been 3 weeks since the last batch of cancellations has anybody seen any reports of refunds after the 14 days which they were supposed to be able to process this time with their new systems🤔

[grapau27]

38 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

As for the cost of cruises going up it's all done by a computer same as airfares. The more people that book or even look the price goes up. Less people booked for that route the price goes down. I noticed it when I was looking at flights for Barcelona next year. For the couple of weeks after I booked the flights the price was almost double, now they have dropped back down to just above what I paid for it. 

 

When I spoke with RCL the guy told me not to have another search whilst I was deciding (asking wife) as the computer system holds that room for a few hours and assumes there is more demand and prices automatically go up.

Yes I noticed this too with price changes if I check a flight etc.

Companies use cookies to see who is looking at what.

Often I see flights/ cruises/hotels you have previously viewed on my screen when I check.

I clear cookies and use my phone and Pauline's phone when searching for flights etc.

Graham.

Edited September 1, 2020 by grapau27

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

Yes, this affects us directly.  Decision day for us is 20th September.

 

I would doubt that a negative announcement would be made today, as with previous stoppages there have been staff briefings and early notices given to TAs.  This is difficult directly after a BH and implies the top brass working over that time.

 

As molecrochip has pointed out, there will be some difficulty in thinking about how to celebrate the handover of Iona, whilst in close proximity coming under pressure to make a definitive announcement about Christmas, which is emotive.

 

The company have caused the problem by declining flexibility over balance due dates.  With one major cruise line sailing and others having plans, but with some competitors now advance cancelling after P&Os latest stoppage, their stance of saying not a lot, not very often, is becoming tricky.  Although others disagreed before with me on this, it should now be possible for the company to outline, in high level terms, what type of passenger experience it is aiming to achieve upon any restart.  Or, to defer this uncertainty by extending the stoppage.

 

The Christmas cruises are expensive, fair enough.  However, to ask passengers to pay thousands three months out in the current circumstances, with at least a middling chance of a cancellation is poor form.

 

I would anticipate (hope) that something will be said on Tuesday 8th September - at 10am.

Don't hold your breath for next Tuesday. Cunard is launching Queen Mary 2's 2022 world cruise going on sale at 9am.

 

My belief is that once Iona is handed over, there will be an update on her initial cruises. I do currently expect her to sail in 2020. Currently, I'm expecting that if she sails before 31 March then it will be considered a pre-Maiden season. I've heard two whispers regarding maiden, the sensible one being that her "maiden" cruise with pomp and ceremony will be her first cruise to Norway, G109, on 10 April 2021.

 

I don't understand P&O's position on balances payable - Carnival UK appear to be the only Carnival brand not to adopt the delayed balances.

[mercury7289]

5 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Don't hold your breath for next Tuesday. Cunard is launching Queen Mary 2's 2022 world cruise going on sale at 9am.

 

My belief is that once Iona is handed over, there will be an update on her initial cruises. I do currently expect her to sail in 2020. Currently, I'm expecting that if she sails before 31 March then it will be considered a pre-Maiden season. I've heard two whispers regarding maiden, the sensible one being that her "maiden" cruise with pomp and ceremony will be her first cruise to Norway, G109, on 10 April 2021.

 

I don't understand P&O's position on balances payable - Carnival UK appear to be the only Carnival brand not to adopt the delayed balances.

Just read in a report to the city this morning, in which Carnival informed them of further pauses in the Seabourn brand and within the notification said, that they have reduced final payment date to 60 days.

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

As for the cost of cruises going up it's all done by a computer same as airfares.

A pity the computer doesn't use the same algorithm as the one used for this years A Level results. 😄

[Son of Anarchy]

15 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

16 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Don't hold your breath for next Tuesday. Cunard is launching Queen Mary 2's 2022 world cruise going on sale at 9am.

 

My belief is that once Iona is handed over, there will be an update on her initial cruises. I do currently expect her to sail in 2020. Currently, I'm expecting that if she sails before 31 March then it will be considered a pre-Maiden season. I've heard two whispers regarding maiden, the sensible one being that her "maiden" cruise with pomp and ceremony will be her first cruise to Norway, G109, on 10 April 2021.

 

I don't understand P&O's position on balances payable - Carnival UK appear to be the only Carnival brand not to adopt the delayed balances.

 

Or maybe a good time to bury bad news?  I'm not normally so pessimistic, but Rishi has now stopped part funding my Wetherspoons breakfast, maybe I'm just a bit hangry 😄

 

On a positive note though, your thoughts on Iona are good to read.  Hopefully in years to come I'll be able to say rather loudly in the MDR that we were on Iona before her maiden cruise 😉

[No pager thank you]

30 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

 

I don't understand P&O's position on balances payable - Carnival UK appear to be the only Carnival brand not to adopt the delayed balances.

Thank you for update on the Queen Mary situation, that would likely change things.  The cynical side of me suggests the following with respect to balances payable:

 

-- P&O are amongst the most price competitive in the Carnival umbrella, particularly when you factor in the lower on board spend per passenger.

-- 2021 bookings (new and transferred) suggest that the UK cruise market is relatively strong, compared with some others.

-- A lot of the bookings are from cheaper "at launch" prices - and the company appears to want to dodge the issue of capacity management protocols, I.e. culling passenger lists. 

-- Quite a few customers have unredeemed FCCs.

 

In some respects therefore, having inflexible payment terms helps the company as enough customers will cancel themselves, some will even forgo deposits.  Also, any cabins which are resold, in such circumstances, assuming that the cruise actually departs, will be at much higher price point per passenger.  Again this benefits the company as the break even percentage will be a touch higher (on the smaller ships in particular).

 

The above is probably too cynical but P&O are renowned for their loyal customer base.  Perhaps somewhere in Carnival UK is the view that passengers will wear this inflexibility and that, particularly with CMV going under, and Fred hiking prices, customers will still continue to stick with P&O as their choice is somewhat reduced if they want to cruise from the UK.

 

[No pager thank you]

1 hour ago, Manx buoy said:

As it’s been 3 weeks since the last batch of cancellations has anybody seen any reports of refunds after the 14 days which they were supposed to be able to process this time with their new systems🤔

(Un) surprisingly not....

 

There are still people complaining on Facebook of being out £7k back from the 1st suspension in March (158 days and 6 months apparently).  Even the social media team are getting fed up!

 

Another video from Simon Palethorpe has gone down badly ... he's actually worse than Paul Ludlow ... which is something I didn't think was easily achievable. 

 

Again the Facebook video is about a good and positive cause, but the company just keeps on making the same mistakes time after time - not thinking about what customers are bothered about as well as their message. 

 

Just makes you wonder who is advising them on PR ... hopefully not the same company who designed the infamous refund spreadsheet.

[Josy1953]

8 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

The above is probably too cynical but P&O are renowned for their loyal customer base.  Perhaps somewhere in Carnival UK is the view that passengers will wear this inflexibility and that, particularly with CMV going under, and Fred hiking prices, customers will still continue to stick with P&O as their choice is somewhat reduced if they want to cruise from the UK.

 

If they really believe that people are happy with inflexibility I think that they may be in for a shock.  I know of a number of previously loyal P&O cruisers who like me having booked with low deposit have decided to  lose deposits rather than go through the agony of trying to get refunds.  My husband and I chose to lose £100 because we no longer have any faith in P&O.  We have now booked cruises with other companies albeit at higher prices than the P&O ones that we cancelled.

[Manx buoy]

10 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

(Un) surprisingly not....

 

There are still people complaining on Facebook of being out £7k back from the 1st suspension in March (158 days and 6 months apparently).  Even the social media team are getting fed up!

 

Another video from Simon Palethorpe has gone down badly ... he's actually worse than Paul Ludlow ... which is something I didn't think was easily achievable. 

 

Again the Facebook video is about a good and positive cause, but the company just keeps on making the same mistakes time after time - not thinking about what customers are bothered about as well as their message. 

 

Just makes you wonder who is advising them on PR ... hopefully not the same company who designed the infamous refund spreadsheet.

I thought not like you say the only posts on FB and Twitter are still waiting after several months and about 10 posts a day from the idiots that can’t read and think all cruises ate knocked on the head till the end of March 

[Denarius]

53 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Don't hold your breath for next Tuesday. Cunard is launching Queen Mary 2's 2022 world cruise going on sale at 9am.

 

My belief is that once Iona is handed over, there will be an update on her initial cruises. I do currently expect her to sail in 2020. Currently, I'm expecting that if she sails before 31 March then it will be considered a pre-Maiden season. I've heard two whispers regarding maiden, the sensible one being that her "maiden" cruise with pomp and ceremony will be her first cruise to Norway, G109, on 10 April 2021.

 

I don't understand P&O's position on balances payable - Carnival UK appear to be the only Carnival brand not to adopt the delayed balances.

Neither do I. It could well make the difference between passengers hanging on and eventually paying their balance and not paying it because of uncertainty about in what form the cruise will go ahead if it eventually does. This is particularly true in the case of those like myself who booked onboard with a £50 deposit - how much that largesse must have come back to bite them!

[Dermotsgirl]

3 hours ago, Josy1953 said:

If they really believe that people are happy with inflexibility I think that they may be in for a shock.  I know of a number of previously loyal P&O cruisers who like me having booked with low deposit have decided to  lose deposits rather than go through the agony of trying to get refunds.  My husband and I chose to lose £100 because we no longer have any faith in P&O.  We have now booked cruises with other companies albeit at higher prices than the P&O ones that we cancelled.

I have been really loyal to P&O. They have been my main cruise line since 2001.  In recent years we have started to book with other lines to get a different onboard experience or a different itinerary, but we intended to carry on sailing with P&O at least once every 18 months or thereabouts.

 

However, I'm not so sure we'll be rushing back to P&O now. I've been very disappointed about how they have handled the refunds, even though I've not been directly affected so far.  Also, I'm becoming increasingly exasperated with the inflexibility around the balance payment date and the pussyfooting around with small extensions to the pause in cruising.

 

If nothing else changes, I will be quite happy to lose the small deposit I paid for my Iona cruise due to sail in March.  I don't feel comfortable handing over a four figure sum for an as yet undefined experience which may or may not happen. 

 

In future, I'm more likely to cruise with Fred Olsen, who have, so far acquitted themselves quite well.  I know it's likely to cost more, but I'll just have to do less cruises.

 

It's a real shame, as I've been so happy onboard P&O ships 

 

 

[terrierjohn]

11 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I have been really loyal to P&O. They have been my main cruise line since 2001.  In recent years we have started to book with other lines to get a different onboard experience or a different itinerary, but we intended to carry on sailing with P&O at least once every 18 months or thereabouts.

 

However, I'm not so sure we'll be rushing back to P&O now. I've been very disappointed about how they have handled the refunds, even though I've not been directly affected so far.  Also, I'm becoming increasingly exasperated with the inflexibility around the balance payment date and the pussyfooting around with small extensions to the pause in cruising.

 

If nothing else changes, I will be quite happy to lose the small deposit I paid for my Iona cruise due to sail in March.  I don't feel comfortable handing over a four figure sum for an as yet undefined experience which may or may not happen. 

 

In future, I'm more likely to cruise with Fred Olsen, who have, so far acquitted themselves quite well.  I know it's likely to cost more, but I'll just have to do less cruises.

 

It's a real shame, as I've been so happy onboard P&O ships 

 

 

That sounds a bit like "cutting off one's nose....", especially when as you say you have not been directly affected.

I agree that they have not acquitted themselves too well, although I understand most Carnival lines have similar issues. However for me I have always found the shore side staff rather lacking, but the ship's staff have always been far better. So I will be staying with P&O as my main cruise line, just as long as their pricing continues to be the most competitive.

[grapau27]

53 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

That sounds a bit like "cutting off one's nose....", especially when as you say you have not been directly affected.

I agree that they have not acquitted themselves too well, although I understand most Carnival lines have similar issues. However for me I have always found the shore side staff rather lacking, but the ship's staff have always been far better. So I will be staying with P&O as my main cruise line, just as long as their pricing continues to be the most competitive.

We were Sapphire (Atlantic loyalty) before we properly tried other cruiselines.

We have just made Mediterranean loyalty but have since sailed 200+ nights on RCL and Princess.

We always try and get 1 P&O cruise in a year usually  3,4 or 7 nights because we like the ships and especially the crew.

Very few cruiselines or TAs have acquited themselves very well to be honest during covid19 pandemic.

Graham.

Edited September 1, 2020 by grapau27

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I have been really loyal to P&O. They have been my main cruise line since 2001.  In recent years we have started to book with other lines to get a different onboard experience or a different itinerary, but we intended to carry on sailing with P&O at least once every 18 months or thereabouts.

 

However, I'm not so sure we'll be rushing back to P&O now. I've been very disappointed about how they have handled the refunds, even though I've not been directly affected so far.  Also, I'm becoming increasingly exasperated with the inflexibility around the balance payment date and the pussyfooting around with small extensions to the pause in cruising.

 

If nothing else changes, I will be quite happy to lose the small deposit I paid for my Iona cruise due to sail in March.  I don't feel comfortable handing over a four figure sum for an as yet undefined experience which may or may not happen. 

 

In future, I'm more likely to cruise with Fred Olsen, who have, so far acquitted themselves quite well.  I know it's likely to cost more, but I'll just have to do less cruises.

 

It's a real shame, as I've been so happy onboard P&O ships 

 

 

I do understand what you mean and feel very similarly but am torn - especially whilst they still have Aurora and Arcadia. Once they have pensioned those two ships off I would move elsewhere anyway. The cruise I had booked for October would have got me up to Caribbean tier in time for my cancelled 39 night World Cruise sector. I currently have 2 FCCs in hand with which I hope to book a cruise in 2022.

Fred Olsen have been much better handling the Covid situation than P&O but I must say they haven't been quite as good dealing with the change-over to their new ships. Once contacted however, they did respond well enough.

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I have been really loyal to P&O. They have been my main cruise line since 2001.  In recent years we have started to book with other lines to get a different onboard experience or a different itinerary, but we intended to carry on sailing with P&O at least once every 18 months or thereabouts.

 

However, I'm not so sure we'll be rushing back to P&O now. I've been very disappointed about how they have handled the refunds, even though I've not been directly affected so far.  Also, I'm becoming increasingly exasperated with the inflexibility around the balance payment date and the pussyfooting around with small extensions to the pause in cruising.

 

If nothing else changes, I will be quite happy to lose the small deposit I paid for my Iona cruise due to sail in March.  I don't feel comfortable handing over a four figure sum for an as yet undefined experience which may or may not happen. 

 

In future, I'm more likely to cruise with Fred Olsen, who have, so far acquitted themselves quite well.  I know it's likely to cost more, but I'll just have to do less cruises.

 

It's a real shame, as I've been so happy onboard P&O ships 

 

 

Similarly, we have been (on the whole) happy customers of P&O, appreciating that the on board standard is much better than the shore side operation. 

 

Our problem is that we advance booked 2020 and 2021 from the Autumn 2019 launch, so until those bookings are either satisfied or cancelled, we don't have too much choice, particularly standing against our overriding concern which is not to give P&O any free money.  Doing so grates at me given the shocking refund/comms/balance due debacle, which has affected us badly. 

 

Although we accept that P&O will continue to retain significant custom, no matter how poor the shore side operation becomes and however many sneaky cost cuts are enforced, we are reluctant to personally reward their perfunctory approach to customer service.  The point made that many cruise companies have treated customers badly is a fair one, although we would suggest that P&O is worse than most (if not all).

 

The unknown here is how price competitive will P&O be in the future and whether or not there is any real acknowledgement that shore side and general corporate leadership standards have to improve.  The profiteering going on with 2021 FCC redemption prices might be reversed as demand softens, but if it doesn't then they P&O are unlikely to provide good value for money either, at least in comparative terms.

 

When the situation with COVID is clearer and the 2022 catalogue is available, we will definitely be looking elsewhere for alternatives.  The question of whether or not we "bin" P&O completely will be based on how badly (or not) the available 2021 itineraries are delivered. 

 

It's a shame really as we do like the ships, but we won't accept being walked over.