P&O Update

[Adawn47]

19 hours ago, ToxM said:

I read it that they are hoping to start at end of 2020 and aim to be up and running by end of quarter 2, 2021.  That’s the six months. 

I hope it will be a tad earlier than that. We have one booked for June 25th. 

Avril 

[Josy1953]

20 hours ago, grapau27 said:

One of our Princess Elite benefits is priority Tender which we used in Hawaii in November.

Hopefully a round Britain cruise would cause less uncertainty than going to Spain,France etc.

Fortunately we only have 1 tender port so we will just not use our elite passes for the tender because I would tell guilty leaving sis & b-i-l to queue while we go off earlier.  I have always considered the priority tenders to be a great perk because we like to be off as early as possible so as to maximise your time ashore.  We have been elite with Princess for over 20 years so as you can imagine queuing for tenders on other lines is frustrating.  Princess loyalty perks are in my opinion much better than P&O.

[tring]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

I think you need to think Carnival,  not P&O. Also, forget about CMV . Carnival are fighting to survive,  and the last thing they will do is spend money.

Reading various brokers notes, and I am by no means an expert, bookings are increasingly soft. Yes, there are rebooking through FCC, but this is not "new " cash. Also, the latest quarterly results show, as might be expected, zero revenue from on board spend and excursions,  which normally contribute about 33% to Carnival's revenue, and probably  more than that in terms of profit generation.

Carnival  can probably just about survive until the end of 2021, thanks to borrowing billions of dollars at 10.5% +. 

The shares have junk status. 

In a nutshell, if cruising isn't going ahead by  the time you have to pay your deposit, hang on to your money. 

 

I am thinking much the same as you regards Carnival, but we would pay balance as even our deposit is a fair bit to loose, which we would if do not pay.  Full cost is £10,000 and would be covered by CC or ABTA at worst.

 

You need to remember Carnival are creditors of CMV, so any actions may help to mitigate loses, in the mind of someone like myself who does not have business knowledge, but I was interested in the views of molecrochip.

[grapau27]

8 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

Fortunately we only have 1 tender port so we will just not use our elite passes for the tender because I would tell guilty leaving sis & b-i-l to queue while we go off earlier.  I have always considered the priority tenders to be a great perk because we like to be off as early as possible so as to maximise your time ashore.  We have been elite with Princess for over 20 years so as you can imagine queuing for tenders on other lines is frustrating.  Princess loyalty perks are in my opinion much better than P&O.

I absolutely agree.

P&O loyalty perks are disappointing.

[Selbourne]

21 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

If they aren’t able to begin cruising again by the end of the year, I think they will have to make some tough decisions, as it’s not feasible that they can continue making piecemeal  short term cancellations for an indefinite period 

Unfortunately, not only is it feasible to continue to make regular short term cancellations, it is the most sensible thing for them to do. It helps to phase their workload with the cancellations and, most importantly, helps their cash flow. It’s obviously a complete pain for their customers but, as we know, that is of secondary importance to them. 

[Selbourne]

22 hours ago, wowzz said:

It's currently unclear as to if FCC can be applied to cruises that will appear in the new brochure.

The policy for FCC was improved a few months ago and now clearly states that it can be redeemed up to 31 Dec 2021 for “Any cruises on sale at that time” which will clearly include all 2022 cruises and most likely the majority of 2023 cruises. 

[Selbourne]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

Why does that not surprise me!

Me neither. As I said at the time, GDPR would not permit the acquisition of a customer database unless they bought the company and there is nothing for P&O to gain by buying CMV. The upside for them is in the former CMV customers that they will pick up with zero expenditure. 

[Son of Anarchy]

23 hours ago, molecrochip said:

2021 was due to be Arcadia's last worldie. Aurora due to take over that baton from 2022 onwards.

 

Bit of a shame that Aurora is now taking over the worldies (for us).  We had an aft balcony for 2021 and were so looking forward to be looking back!  Aurora doesn't have aft facing balconies.

 

TA contacted us yesterday trying to get us to book the 2022 worldie.  Too pricey for us.  We'd got  a great price for 2021 as we booked at launch.  

 

We'd paid some of our balance off earlier this year (pre-Covid) and the TA has confirmed that they will apply the 125% FCC to the amount of what we have paid, not just the balance.  So hopefully a cheap Early Saver cabin on Iona for Christmas, and some money in the pot towards worldie 2023, even though there's no aft balconies.

[option1]

P&O now blocking Refund requests,Has anyone else experienced this today?

[tring]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Me neither. As I said at the time, GDPR would not permit the acquisition of a customer database unless they bought the company 

 

It is done.  The first time I was aware of it is when Lord Stirling bought the Swan Hellenic trade name and data base from Carnival.  We had to agree to remain on it, but sold it was.  Anyone who does not want to remain on it is only useless clutter anyway.  When All Leisure collapsed, trade names/data bases for Swan and VoD sold on as well.

 

TBH my interest is more curiosity.  If Carnival were to have had an interest they would almost certainly just want to sail ships on the same old itineraries, as they did with Adonia and Pacific Princess (no surprise they did badly), and it would not interest CMV customers anyway.  To command the prices of smaller ships people need an itinerary which makes the expenditure worthwhile and no one will be selling small ships cheaply in the future.  Azamara make a far better job of running the Renaissance ships.  P&O much more likely to get rid of Aurora and Arcadia as.we all expect, but personally we would still like to do our cruise to Canada/US next September.  We find P&O lacking in a number of ways, but it is one cruise when the itinerary is good and we have a good price for a well.placed balcony cabin.

Edited August 12, 2020 by tring

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

The policy for FCC was improved a few months ago and now clearly states that it can be redeemed up to 31 Dec 2021 for “Any cruises on sale at that time” which will clearly include all 2022 cruises and most likely the majority of 2023 cruises. 

True, but in normal circumstances cruises upon brochure launch would have an up to 10% reduction on ticket price, including standard early booking discount, and in some cases, Peninsular club discount.

 

I wouldn't rule out those offers not being combinable with FCC redemption.  Or the possibility of FCCs being redeemable on Select Fare only.  We know that some TAs have declined to pass on normal discounts when the FCC is redeemed, so the ground is prepared.

 

In these circumstances, the 125% FCC becomes worth 115% tops.  A bit of price inflation and the customer ends up with less than what they started with, despite loaning their money for a few years....🤔

 

Or they can use the FCC up to 2022 and pay 30%+ more than the initial brochure launch prices...

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Me neither. As I said at the time, GDPR would not permit the acquisition of a customer database unless they bought the company and there is nothing for P&O to gain by buying CMV. The upside for them is in the former CMV customers that they will pick up with zero expenditure. 

They will undoubtedly get some CMV customers but not sure it will be that many. Apart from the fact that the two products are now very different, the big draw for many CMV pax was the local departures from the like of Liverpool, Newcastle, Dundee, Hull and Plymouth. Some, maybe many, of those pax may not want the journey down to Southampton to get on a much larger or more expensive ship.

[pete14]

9 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

True, but in normal circumstances cruises upon brochure launch would have an up to 10% reduction on ticket price, including standard early booking discount, and in some cases, Peninsular club discount.

 

I wouldn't rule out those offers not being combinable with FCC redemption.  Or the possibility of FCCs being redeemable on Select Fare only.  We know that some TAs have declined to pass on normal discounts when the FCC is redeemed, so the ground is prepared.

 

In these circumstances, the 125% FCC becomes worth 115% tops.  A bit of price inflation and the customer ends up with less than what they started with, despite loaning their money for a few years....🤔

 

Or they can use the FCC up to 2022 and pay 30%+ more than the initial brochure launch prices...

Or to put the other point of view, launch prices could be at the same level as they have been for several years and fcc could be permitted for both select and early saver. That is what I expect  and the fcc I currently have will secure me an excellent holiday. Nothing is ruled out of course.

[Selbourne]

54 minutes ago, tring said:

 

It is done.  The first time I was aware of it is when Lord Stirling bought the Swan Hellenic trade name and data base from Carnival.  We had to agree to remain on it, but sold it was.  Anyone who does not want to remain on it is only useless clutter anyway.  When All Leisure collapsed, trade names/data bases for Swan and VoD sold on as well.

 

The two examples that you give both pre-date GDPR legislation and its enforcement, so my point still stands.

[Selbourne]

21 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

True, but in normal circumstances cruises upon brochure launch would have an up to 10% reduction on ticket price, including standard early booking discount, and in some cases, Peninsular club discount.

 

I wouldn't rule out those offers not being combinable with FCC redemption.  Or the possibility of FCCs being redeemable on Select Fare only.  We know that some TAs have declined to pass on normal discounts when the FCC is redeemed, so the ground is prepared.

 

In these circumstances, the 125% FCC becomes worth 115% tops.  A bit of price inflation and the customer ends up with less than what they started with, despite loaning their money for a few years....🤔

 

Or they can use the FCC up to 2022 and pay 30%+ more than the initial brochure launch prices...

Whilst I am no fan of FCC (we opted for and have received full cash refunds for 3 cruises - and the only FCC we have is for a small deposit) and I also feel that P&O’s handling of this whole issue has been poor, I don’t share your cynicism about discounts.

 

I simply cannot envisage a situation where P&O would not allow advertised launch discounts to apply to those making a booking with FCC. It would be (yet another) PR disaster for them and would cost them yet more loyal customers than they have lost already. I think it would be foolish in the extreme.  

[Selbourne]

26 minutes ago, Britboys said:

They will undoubtedly get some CMV customers but not sure it will be that many. Apart from the fact that the two products are now very different, the big draw for many CMV pax was the local departures from the like of Liverpool, Newcastle, Dundee, Hull and Plymouth. Some, maybe many, of those pax may not want the journey down to Southampton to get on a much larger or more expensive ship.

I agree that the regional departure ports would have been a big draw for many Andrew and Southampton isn’t for everyone. On the other hand, CMV was somewhat of a ‘budget’ brand and the few operators that will retain regional departure ports (e.g. Fred Olsen / Saga) may be a bit pricy for many CMV customers. P&O used to be mid market but seems to be moving rapidly towards mass market and will probably be the cheapest alternative? In that case, my theory is that enough former CMV customers will find their way to P&O to make a difference, without any expenditure being needed.

[tring]

57 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The two examples that you give both pre-date GDPR legislation and its enforcement, so my point still stands.

 

Maybe that is a point then, but if people agree to have their details past on I thought that was not a problem with the legislation.  I often tick boxes to say I do not want my details passed on to third parties, so thought with agreement details could be passed on.  I  am no expert though.

Edited August 12, 2020 by tring

[Dermotsgirl]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Unfortunately, not only is it feasible to continue to make regular short term cancellations, it is the most sensible thing for them to do. It helps to phase their workload with the cancellations and, most importantly, helps their cash flow. It’s obviously a complete pain for their customers but, as we know, that is of secondary importance to them. 

However, surely they'll have to bite the bullet at some point, and admit that the cruises aren't going to magically start up again as previously scheduled with effect from the end of the current 4 week cancellation period. 

[Manx buoy]

4 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

However, surely they'll have to bite the bullet at some point, and admit that the cruises aren't going to magically start up again as previously scheduled with effect from the end of the current 4 week cancellation period. 

They’ve got the cancellation announcements at 90 days before the cruises  now so they’ll have a months worth of balances to pay of the previous months refunds I’m thinking

[Dermotsgirl]

41 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I agree that the regional departure ports would have been a big draw for many Andrew and Southampton isn’t for everyone. On the other hand, CMV was somewhat of a ‘budget’ brand and the few operators that will retain regional departure ports (e.g. Fred Olsen / Saga) may be a bit pricy for many CMV customers. P&O used to be mid market but seems to be moving rapidly towards mass market and will probably be the cheapest alternative? In that case, my theory is that enough former CMV customers will find their way to P&O to make a difference, without any expenditure being needed.

I think there was already a good amount of brand cross over with CMV. When we've cruised with CMV, most of the people that we spoke to had already cruised with other lines, most likely P&O, Fred Olsen and Cunard with a smattering of Saga. We also recognised other people who we remembered seeing on P&O.

 

Quite a few seemed like us - our  main cruise line is P&O, with a leaning towards Fred Olsen, but we regarded CMV is good for a low price, cheeky extra cruise from a local port ( Tilbury in our case) 

[Dermotsgirl]

3 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

They’ve got the cancellation announcements at 90 days before the cruises  now so they’ll have a months worth of balances to pay of the previous months refunds I’m thinking

Yes, could be that they are hoping for a rolling stash of readies to pay the refunds.  However, I won't be playing that game. I'll most likely lose my deposit  rather than pay them more money at this point. 

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Maybe that is a point then, but if people agree to have their details past on I thought that was not a problem with the legislation.  I often tick boxes to say I do not want my details passed on to third parties, so thought with agreement details could be passed on.  I  am no expert though.

It is a minefield but sadly I had to spend quite a bit of time during my last 2 years at work ploughing through various legislative documents regarding GDPR (time that I shall never get back 😂). In the past companies often relied on ‘passive consent’, in other words, almost anything was possible as long as you hadn’t specifically instructed a company that you didn’t consent to it (not really true, I’m over simplifying to make the point). Nowadays, post GDPR, you have to have provided ‘active consent’. The powers that be would not deem it ‘reasonable’ that a company could be expected to sell your personal details to a third party without you having specifically and proactively consented that they may do so. I should imagine that it gets even more complicated post a company collapse, as I’m not sure that active consent automatically passes to administrators to do with as they please. I very much doubt it (as consent wasn’t given to them directly) but that’s an area I didn’t have to look into, thankfully. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

They will undoubtedly get some CMV customers but not sure it will be that many. Apart from the fact that the two products are now very different, the big draw for many CMV pax was the local departures from the like of Liverpool, Newcastle, Dundee, Hull and Plymouth. Some, maybe many, of those pax may not want the journey down to Southampton to get on a much larger or more expensive ship.

P&O launch prices have been well below the best offers CMV ever had.

[Selbourne]

12 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

However, surely they'll have to bite the bullet at some point, and admit that the cruises aren't going to magically start up again as previously scheduled with effect from the end of the current 4 week cancellation period. 

The truth is that nobody knows when cruising will resume. It could be November (highly unlikely IMO), early in the New Year (unlikely IMO) or any time thereafter. So, P&O simply cannot say with any certainty that they won’t cruise until x date. Add to that the facts that workload phasing (processing all the refunds) and cash flow management make cancellations in batches (every month or so) eminently sensible for them and I can see no logical reason (for them) as to why they would change that approach. 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The truth is that nobody knows when cruising will resume. It could be November (highly unlikely IMO), early in the New Year (unlikely IMO) or any time thereafter. So, P&O simply cannot say with any certainty that they won’t cruise until x date. Add to that the facts that workload phasing (processing all the refunds) and cash flow management make cancellations in batches (every month or so) eminently sensible for them and I can see no logical reason (for them) as to why they would change that approach. 

I would say the longer this situation goes on, the less likely it is  that  the planned itineraries will suddenly pop back into place.  If we get into the new year and  we're getting to a point where the shutdown is approaching  a year, I personally believe that a short term 'pause' strategy will be acceptable to less and less passengers