Volendam leaving HAL next?

[sambamama]

I got my cancellation for my April 2022 Mexican Rivera cruise on the Volendam. That cruise replaced my April 2021 Maasdam Mexican Rivera cruise. So I've now had 3 cruises all cancelled by HAL, and still not a penny of refund. My TA was sailing Oct. 17.The new HAL philosophy is totally screw the solo passenger and only pay back the credit card refunds and never respond to emails. I am rethinking my HAL loyalty at this point. They aren't even offering the good deal they did for the Maasdam. 

[sambamama]

HAL's website is still bragging about its superb Mexican ports-but by taking away the  10  day Sea of Cortez and the 14 day Mexican Rivera, they are absolutely ordinary. Trying to sell 7 day Koningsdam Mexico cruises for my 14 day Mexico Riviera is like getting a hamburger instead of a filet. And I wanted to sail on the Volendam, not the Koningsdam. I am feeling more and more frustrated by my cruises cancelled by HAL, their complete lack of communication, and their total lack of any refund. Do I get to benefit from a doubled amount of deposit if HAL never gave me my FCC before they cancel the cruise? That is certainly not my fault. 

[Sir PMP]

11 hours ago, KAKcruiser said:

The Zaandam is currently in drydock which I'm sure they wouldn't do if the ship were leaving the fleet.  I am hoping they put the big flat screen TVs on the wall like they did on the Volendam.

I'm glad she needs it..

[Himself]

11 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Volendam and Zaandam are not going anywhere! Carnival Corp has stated they are dropping eighteen ships, seventeen of which have been identified. No. 18 is coming from another brand besides HAL. Let's not start unsubstantiated rumors that get some folks' knickers in a twist

Thanks for posting this, John,  Rumors cause too much anxiety.

[rafinmd]

Unless HAL gets an offer they can't refuse on a Vista I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion Zaandam and/or Volendam will be next to leave the fleet; the question is what year.  I think also that until we get a handle on the Covid situation, a lot of cruises will be cancelled, and I expect that the longer cruises that these ships usually do will be most heavily affected.  I doubt if we will see a Grand Voyage for at least a couple of years, and longer cruises on all lines will be cancelled as time goes on. I would say the likelihood that cruises will be cancelled is quite high, and the likelihood that it will mean sale of a ship is very low.  If we all  wear our masks, maintain social distancing and act responsibly we can cut that time period time but it is still a ways off.

 

Roy

[iancal]

Maybe.  Same with some other ships in other Carnival Corp lines.

 

But until the next cut at Carnival and until the impacted ships are identified why get everyone's knickers in a twist with false data and rumors? 

 

Seems a bit pointless to speculate given the current state of the industry and the uncertainties that will be with us at least the next 6-9 months.  

Edited September 24, 2020 by iancal

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

It’s like a big game of dominoes

 

Reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello routine of "Who's on First?"

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

I think the TV upgrade is very likely as is the conversion of the Mix Piano Bar to Billboard Onboard.  Additionally they may continue the retrofit of ocean view rooms that still have tubs to shower only.  Zaandam is not getting Lanais (I doubt if she ever will).

 

Why do you think this?  Mix was a concept that seems more successful on that size of a ship that Billboard Onboard.  Tubs to showers?  Overdue.  Lanais?  While it produced a bit more revenue for the ships that had them, I suspect, we non-Lanai guests were somewhat "miffed"  with the reserved deck chairs issue.  Certainly hope they don't appear after dry dock.  

[AtlantaCruiser72]

37 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello routine of "Who's on First?"

 

That's it EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!  Keeping up with all the changes at all the cruise lines has me head spinning in 14 directions at once - on a good day!

[AtlantaCruiser72]

33 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Why do you think this?  Mix was a concept that seems more successful on that size of a ship that Billboard Onboard.  Tubs to showers?  Overdue.  Lanais?  While it produced a bit more revenue for the ships that had them, I suspect, we non-Lanai guests were somewhat "miffed"  with the reserved deck chairs issue.  Certainly hope they don't appear after dry dock.  

 

Because it would make Zaandam the only ship in the fleet without Billboard and would necessitate a whole separate entertainer pool/contract for just the one vessel.  By changing over it makes the rotation of the Billboard pianists easier throughout the fleet.  Essentially it's just more cost efficient from a management standpoint.  One venue fleetwide with same purpose, one pool of entertainers, one set of contract parameters, etc

[WheelieNick]

But why do you all thinking these ships are gonna be sold? I know, Volendam came to the Netherlands last week and is now anchored up to our coast, Toegether with Nieuw Statendam, and, when she returns from dry dock, Zaandam. 

Well I wondered why Volendam came to The Netherlands, I hope that I will get an answer to that question soon. But for now, it is not on my radar that these 2 ships are gonna be sold. 

[Copper10-8]

19 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Why do you think this?  Mix was a concept that seems more successful on that size of a ship that Billboard Onboard....................... 

 

Because the "Mix" three-bar concept (martinis/cocktails, wine and beer) on the "R-"class ships was a perennial underachiever; because the Microsoft "interactive" surface tables in there were more down for the count than not, plus hard to maintain and, more importantly; because that - ripping out Mix and replacing it with a smaller version of Billboard Onboard - was what was done on Volendam at her Grand Bahama dry-dock between 18-31 Oct 2019  

[rkacruiser]

19 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

Because it would make Zaandam the only ship in the fleet without Billboard and would necessitate a whole separate entertainer pool/contract for just the one vessel.  By changing over it makes the rotation of the Billboard pianists easier throughout the fleet.  Essentially it's just more cost efficient from a management standpoint.  One venue fleetwide with same purpose, one pool of entertainers, one set of contract parameters, etc

 

Good reasons; thank you for answering my question.

 

41 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Because the "Mix" three-bar concept (martinis/cocktails, wine and beer) on the "R-"class ships was a perennial underachiever

 

The Champagne Bar part of that concept was most certainly an underachiever.  Much like the ill-conceived Wine Bar that was created outside the Wajang Theater.  

 

I was a regular patron to wine/beer section of Mix.  I liked the "sports bar" feel to it with the TV screens and I thought it was well patronized along with the adjoining Martini Bar.  Plus, there was a good deal of beverage activity between the casino and the wine/beer bar of Mix.  

 

One of my most pleasant memories of a cruise on a ship that had Mix was when there was a solo guitarist/singer that performed.  The young man was an excellent entertainer and he "packed" them in.  The most negative was when the CD scheduled daily trivia for that venue.  It's a good thing that social distancing was not required then!

[AtlantaCruiser72]

@rkacruiser I agree about having the guitarist in Mix -  we had a great one when I was on Ryndam years ago.  When I sailed Amsterdam last summer this was one entertainment option that was missing that could have easily been added either in the Casino/Sports Bar or even the Ocean Bar when the Jazz trio was not playing.

[rkacruiser]

53 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

@rkacruiser I agree about having the guitarist in Mix -  we had a great one when I was on Ryndam years ago.  When I sailed Amsterdam last summer this was one entertainment option that was missing that could have easily been added either in the Casino/Sports Bar or even the Ocean Bar when the Jazz trio was not playing.

 

I think it was aboard Maasdam when I remember this performer.  On the Noordam--the year that the Hati earthquake occurred, there was a similar performer--not of the same quality, however--performing in the Crow's Nest.  

 

HAL has done a very poor job of providing enjoyable musical entertainment in the Lounges, i.e. the Ocean Bar, in recent years.  The most ridiculous situation was at the Ocean Bar on the Volendam during the last Christmas/New Year's cruise.  There sat a piano--unused--in its alcove with no music whatsoever available during HH.  

[Mabs]

Just adding my comments. If they do away with all the smaller ships we will be looking for another line to cruise on, we like the ports they can go to and just the size and feel of the smaller ships. The new showers on the ships are AWFUL, as a person with one leg  and the need for a shower seat it is extremely difficult to get in and out of the shower. By the time I've managed took the shower and got back out, really need a shower. Okay enough, just had to vent. 

You are also right about the music venues they come up with, would be nice to have some that is background music we can listen and enjoy while having a drink and a conservation without shouting.

Everyone stay safe and hope we will be on a cruise soon.

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Mabs said:

Just adding my comments. If they do away with all the smaller ships we will be looking for another line to cruise on, we like the ports they can go to and just the size and feel of the smaller ships. The new showers on the ships are AWFUL, as a person with one leg  and the need for a shower seat it is extremely difficult to get in and out of the shower. By the time I've managed took the shower and got back out, really need a shower. Okay enough, just had to vent. 

You are also right about the music venues they come up with, would be nice to have some that is background music we can listen and enjoy while having a drink and a conservation without shouting.

Everyone stay safe and hope we will be on a cruise soon.

I think HAL will be keeping these two ships.  They don’t want to give up on that market segment yet.    They will keep them as a hedge to see how the new post-Covid Cruise trends develop.   One possibility is this niche could become a strong niche and they would want these ships until they build new ones, another possibility is CCL decides all mid size cruising will be housed in their luxury brands and abandon the mid size ship/moderates priced marketplace.  In my mind that is what HAL has that no one else offers, mid size ships ate moderate prices.   Oceania is close but I was sorely disappointed with them.  
 

edited.  Princess has now completely abandoned this market.  They also had a foot in the same market 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Mary229

[Sir PMP]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I think HAL will be keeping these two ships.  They don’t want to give up on that market segment yet.    They will keep them as a hedge to see how the new post-Covid Cruise trends develop.   One possibility is this niche could become a strong niche and they would want these ships until they build new ones, another possibility is CCL decides all mid size cruising will be housed in their luxury brands and abandon the mid size ship/moderates priced marketplace.  In my mind that is what HAL has that no one else offers, mid size ships ate moderate prices.   Oceania is close but I was sorely disappointed with them.  
 

edited.  Princess has now completely abandoned this market.  They also had a foot in the same market 

And if they need to..

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

And if they need to..

I think CCL will find other ships to cut before these two.  They could go down to one but I don't think 2 will be dismissed - not now.  I think 18 months to 4 years out they may be gone if this niche is removed.   I think everything will become clearer by September 30th and even greater clarity by mid-November

[iancal]

It would not surprise me to see another announcement when Carnival Corp releases their FY20 financial statements along with an update on their FY21 estimates. 

[Hlitner]

Since many are posting what "they think" here is what I think :).  The smaller HAL vessels are of an older design with a small percentage of balcony cabins.  Their age and size also make them much less efficient (in terms of fuel and staffing) then the newer larger vessels.  Also consider that these older smaller HAL vessels are quite popular with many long time HAL fans who are mostly older very experienced cruisers.  But these older cruisers tend to spend less money onboard ships (this is a fact...not speculation).  My suspicion is that these smaller HAL vessels will soon be on the chopping block.  It is not a matter of pleasing HAL fans but simply a matter of economics.  

 

My prediction is that smaller vessels (lets arbitrarily use less then 100,000 tons as smaller) will soon be very limited among the mass market lines (of which HAL is one).  There is a decent market for smaller to medium size vessels among the higher priced premium and luxury lines.  If HAL wants to continue with smaller vessels they will need to increase prices which might cause them a lot of grief unless HAL also increases quality.  Since we cruise many different lines (16 to date) we have a pretty good understanding of HAL's competition and it is not a good thing for HAL. 

 

I have no idea where the "suits" plan on taking HAL in the future. Is it to be a mass market ship with amenties (or lack thereof) designed to attract older cruisers?   Will it become more of a Premium product designed to compete with lines like Oceania, Azamara, and VIkiing?  I think those are the two basic options that must be considered by the "suits."   We think that the pre-COVID HAL has lost its way and was trying to be 2 different lines in one.  On one hand you had the smaller vessels (like the Maasdam) that primarily appealed to the older HAL fans and then you had the latest generation of larger ships (i.e. Koningsdam) that appealed more to a younger generation of cruisers.  But nearly all cruise lines have their own personality and a split personality is not a good thing for HAL.

 

Hank

[S&B]

I don't think that HAL will get rid of the last two smaller ships right away but IF and when they do in the future what will happen to the Grand and World Cruises?  I cannot see those cruises  sailing on the Oosterdam or any other mid size ship.  When this happens is when you will see the "wailing" really go wild.   For now they will keep the World and Grand cruises because they are good sellers and people are willing to pay the price.  IMHO

[iancal]

40 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Since many are posting what "they think" here is what I think :).  The smaller HAL vessels are of an older design with a small percentage of balcony cabins.  Their age and size also make them much less efficient (in terms of fuel and staffing) then the newer larger vessels.  Also consider that these older smaller HAL vessels are quite popular with many long time HAL fans who are mostly older very experienced cruisers.  But these older cruisers tend to spend less money onboard ships (this is a fact...not speculation).  My suspicion is that these smaller HAL vessels will soon be on the chopping block.  It is not a matter of pleasing HAL fans but simply a matter of economics.  

 

My prediction is that smaller vessels (lets arbitrarily use less then 100,000 tons as smaller) will soon be very limited among the mass market lines (of which HAL is one).  There is a decent market for smaller to medium size vessels among the higher priced premium and luxury lines.  If HAL wants to continue with smaller vessels they will need to increase prices which might cause them a lot of grief unless HAL also increases quality.  Since we cruise many different lines (16 to date) we have a pretty good understanding of HAL's competition and it is not a good thing for HAL. 

 

I have no idea where the "suits" plan on taking HAL in the future. Is it to be a mass market ship with amenties (or lack thereof) designed to attract older cruisers?   Will it become more of a Premium product designed to compete with lines like Oceania, Azamara, and VIkiing?  I think those are the two basic options that must be considered by the "suits."   We think that the pre-COVID HAL has lost its way and was trying to be 2 different lines in one.  On one hand you had the smaller vessels (like the Maasdam) that primarily appealed to the older HAL fans and then you had the latest generation of larger ships (i.e. Koningsdam) that appealed more to a younger generation of cruisers.  But nearly all cruise lines have their own personality and a split personality is not a good thing for HAL.

 

Hank

Agree with this completely.  In the past some posters like to wax almost poetically about how profitable these ships, including P'dam, were.  So profitable that they were among the first to be cut from the fleet.  HAL always gave the impression of not knowing what kind of cruise line they wanted to be.

 

Emotion will not get in the way of financials when it comes to the disposal or sale of ships in Carnival's various cruise lines.  What ships get cut, and how soon in the process,  will speak volumes for each ship's past profitability, current condition, and future direction of the respective cruise line.  At the end of the day it is just business, not personal.

Edited September 27, 2020 by iancal

[tommui987]

Most (95%) of my browsing is on HAL and Volendam - I think we were on it at least three times. Love the size of the ship.

 

I was just curious why CCL is changing the name of the Trumph. It was first cruise my wife and I took (and also the last on Carnival).

[I Luv Crusin]

We were on the Volendam from San Diego, April of 2022