NOVEMBER 1st FOR REAL ?????

[wolfcathorse]

Since Carnival and NCL just canceled cruises through to the end of November, this November 1 sailing is sunk. RCI will follow suit and cancel through November too.

[atricks]

11 minutes ago, wolfcathorse said:

Since Carnival and NCL just canceled cruises through to the end of November, this November 1 sailing is sunk. RCI will follow suit and cancel through November too.

 

Carnival Still shows Miami and Port Canaveral cruises available November and December, but nothing anywhere else in November.

Edited October 5, 2020 by atricks

[CSHS1979]

18 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

It is even clear that crews working on ships  out of the USA or calling into the USA on a regular basis can come back to work with so many million unemployed Americans?. Perhaps the American government will no longer give backing to those foreign workers forcing them to employ Americans instead if they wish to operate out of or into the USA?. If so that is complete job training of more than 6 weeks for thousands of new staff?

 

Sorry, but that is a totally different issue

[bouhunter]

18 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Perhaps the American government will no longer give backing to those foreign workers forcing them to employ Americans instead if they wish to operate out of or into the USA?.

LOL

[boscobeans]

36 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Still a logistical issue getting them on the ships.

 

Everthing else you mention is just noise

NOISE ??

 

There are 15 cruise ships waiting right off the coast of Singapore. 

Contract employees are directed to board in Singapore.

Singapore is a great place to have staff from all over gather for redeployment.

 

Same goes for ships off the British coast where there are several from many different lines.

A port where many crew were let off months ago and probably many will be returning.

How long does it take a waiter to get back to taking orders and serving, especially on the same ship or cruise line?

Same for cooks and almost every other crew member. 

 

Covid rules?  Sure, less tables, masks and no self serve at the buffets.

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, wolfcathorse said:

Since Carnival and NCL just canceled cruises through to the end of November, this November 1 sailing is sunk. RCI will follow suit and cancel through November too.

 

Since NCL has cancelled all their November sailings and Carnival is only sailing out of two ports in November so far, it is very likely RCI will follow and cancel most or all of their November sailings. 

 

NCL's message on their site:

"Updated October 5, 2020:    Your safety is our #1 priority—both on and off our ships. Due to the current global environment, we are extending the suspension of 2020 cruises to include all cruises embarking through November 2020. Additionally, we'll be suspending sailings on Norwegian Star, Norwegian Spirit, and Norwegian Dawn through March 2021.

Edited October 5, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[CSHS1979]

1 hour ago, boscobeans said:

NOISE ??

 

There are 15 cruise ships waiting right off the coast of Singapore. 

Contract employees are directed to board in Singapore.

Singapore is a great place to have staff from all over gather for redeployment.

 

Same goes for ships off the British coast where there are several from many different lines.

A port where many crew were let off months ago and probably many will be returning.

How long does it take a waiter to get back to taking orders and serving, especially on the same ship or cruise line?

Same for cooks and almost every other crew member. 

 

Covid rules?  Sure, less tables, masks and no self serve at the buffets.

 

It's still just noise until fully crewed ships are docked in Florida.

 

I really don't think you understand the logistics behind having that happen. 

 

Anyway, the original response had to do with assembling a crew from the ships in the Caribbean 

Edited October 5, 2020 by CSHS1979

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

It's still just noise until fully crewed ships are docked in Florida.

 

I really don't think you understand the logistics behind having that happen. 

 

Anyway, the original response had to do with assembling a crew from the ships in the Caribbean 

All we can do is wait and check out when and where ships move to points in Europe and Asia to assemble crews/

 

Over more than 21 years we have made great friends with waiters, stewards and bartenders and have found many who have years and years of experience sailing with one line. 

 

I find it hard to imagine these men and women not returning and when they do I find it hard to believe they will have trouble adjusting to the same jobs with just a few new twists.

 

We will see soon enough.. Time will tell. 

 

Happy Sailing... WHENEVER.

[CSHS1979]

3 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

All we can do is wait and check out when and where ships move to points in Europe and Asia to assemble crews/

 

Over more than 21 years we have made great friends with waiters, stewards and bartenders and have found many who have years and years of experience sailing with one line. 

 

I find it hard to imagine these men and women not returning and when they do I find it hard to believe they will have trouble adjusting to the same jobs with just a few new twists.

 

We will see soon enough.. Time will tell. 

 

Happy Sailing... WHENEVER.

 

I agree with all of this, my point is this repatriation with quarantines, new protocols and limited embarkation points is more complicated than coming back from a long vacation.😉

 

I know there are plenty of crew desperate to return

[boscobeans]

2 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

I agree with all of this, my point is this repatriation with quarantines, new protocols and limited embarkation points is more complicated than coming back from a long vacation.😉

 

I know there are plenty of crew desperate to return

 

 

Quarantining protocols were listed on the contract that was removed for privacy reasons.

2 weeks of isolation at the port and 2 more on the ship. With testing of course.

 

I don't remember the exact date of the contract whether it was 10/07/2020 but I think it was and the ship was the Quantum.

 

Whatever,  it is good to see that staff is being contracted...

[CSHS1979]

10 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

 

Quarantining protocols were listed on the contract that was removed for privacy reasons.

2 weeks of isolation at the port and 2 more on the ship. With testing of course.

 

I don't remember the exact date of the contract whether it was 10/07/2020 but I think it was and the ship was the Quantum.

 

Whatever,  it is good to see that staff is being contracted...

 

I don't see it listed on the contract, it may have been listed in the comment, but your timeline is 4 weeks

[ace2542]

7 hours ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

For ships sailing out of the States they will have to train the staff back up on emergency procedures and pass a coast guard inspection.  They also have required training when they return to the same ship after a vacation.  Even if they have had this training 10 times before, just like us passengers with the abandon ship procedures.  Not sure if CHENG is reading this thread but he should be able to recap training crew members have to refresh on.  I agree with carnival and don’t think they can do it in less than 30 days when you include isolation.

 

What about the travel bans to the USA  against a large number of countries? The bans may not all be lifted at once you know. And I do believe holding a crew visa a C Visa I believe may not render people from name the country immune to the travel ban. Only US Citizens, Green Card Holder and I think immediate family members are currently allowed into the U.S under the proclamation. If they wish to train the crew all at once it might be some time before that can happen.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

For ships sailing out of the States they will have to train the staff back up on emergency procedures and pass a coast guard inspection.  They also have required training when they return to the same ship after a vacation.  Even if they have had this training 10 times before, just like us passengers with the abandon ship procedures.  Not sure if CHENG is reading this thread but he should be able to recap training crew members have to refresh on.  I agree with carnival and don’t think they can do it in less than 30 days when you include isolation.

 

Returning crew will only have a 4-6 hour orientation briefing in normal times.  The statutory 4 hour "Personal Safety and Social Responsibility" (the only statutory training most cruise ship crew are required to have) is good for 5 years.

30 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

What about the travel bans to the USA  against a large number of countries? The bans may not all be lifted at once you know. And I do believe holding a crew visa a C Visa I believe may not render people from name the country immune to the travel ban. Only US Citizens, Green Card Holder and I think immediate family members are currently allowed into the U.S under the proclamation. If they wish to train the crew all at once it might be some time before that can happen.

Actually, the US and Canada, unlike nearly all the rest of the world, declared merchant mariners, of all nationalities, working on ships of all flags, to be essential workers, and therefore exempt from travel restrictions, from the beginning of the pandemic.  This is in recognition of the vital role shipping plays in the global economy (80+% of the world's economy travels by sea).  While it is a stretch to consider cruise ship crew "essential", because they are applying for a C1 visa, the embassies and consulates will issue these as "emergency" cases because they don't make any distinction as to the type of ship served on, and once with the visa, they are  free to make a crew change.  The only limitation on cruise ship crew are those placed by the CDC no sail order, and it's limitations on using public transportation.  And this restriction alone is going to make things costly and time consuming.

 

I will still hold to my 4-6 week timeline to get a ship up and running, given the restrictions on travel, quarantine time, and restarting the supply chain.  As noted, the ships in the Caribbean do not have the proper staff to make a full crew.  I foresee ships travelling to ports that have no crew change restrictions (Gibraltar, some Scandinavian countries) to pick up crew who have been flown in charter flights from the home countries, and then taking the crew to the Caribbean to shuffle crew.  This could extend the timeline to 6-8 weeks, IMO.

Edited October 6, 2020 by chengkp75

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Returning crew will only have a 4-6 hour orientation briefing in normal times.  The statutory 4 hour "Personal Safety and Social Responsibility" (the only statutory training most cruise ship crew are required to have) is good for 5 years.

Actually, the US and Canada, unlike nearly all the rest of the world, declared merchant mariners, of all nationalities, working on ships of all flags, to be essential workers, and therefore exempt from travel restrictions, from the beginning of the pandemic.  This is in recognition of the vital role shipping plays in the global economy (80+% of the world's economy travels by sea).  While it is a stretch to consider cruise ship crew "essential", because they are applying for a C1 visa, the embassies and consulates will issue these as "emergency" cases because they don't make any distinction as to the type of ship served on, and once with the visa, they are  free to make a crew change.  The only limitation on cruise ship crew are those placed by the CDC no sail order, and it's limitations on using public transportation.

I was unaware of that. Interesting.

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

I don't see it listed on the contract, it may have been listed in the comment, but your timeline is 4 weeks

While I do see multiple pages behind this, what is pictured is not the "contract", it is merely the "letter of employment", which gets the ball rolling for governmental agencies to issue visas, etc.

[boscobeans]

47 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While I do see multiple pages behind this, what is pictured is not the "contract", it is merely the "letter of employment", which gets the ball rolling for governmental agencies to issue visas, etc.

Glad to see Chengkp kick in.

 

Cheng,

Do you think the ships now gathered in places like the coast of Singapore are just hanging out or could they be starting up all the systems needed on board and awaiting a mass re-staffing once charters and quarantine issues are resolved.

 

It would seem that with the week by week chance of a solid re-sail date they would be doing more than just treading water at anchor? 

 

If they ARE getting things running how would that affect your 4-6 week start up estimate?

 

Thanks for your knowledgeable input.

 

bosco

Edited October 6, 2020 by boscobeans

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Glad to see Chengkp kick in.

 

Cheng,

Do you think the ships now gathered in places like the coast of Singapore are just hanging out or could they be starting up all the systems needed on board and awaiting a mass re-staffing once charters and quarantine issues are resolved.

 

It would seem that with the week by week chance of a solid re-sail date they would be doing more than just treading water at anchor? 

 

If they ARE getting things running how would that affect your 4-6 week start up estimate?

 

Thanks for your knowledgeable input.

 

bosco

Not sure what you mean by "starting up all the systems".  The technical systems needed for propulsion and powering the ship have always been running.  Hotel equipment like galley and laundry doesn't need a lot of "start up".  I suspect the ships may be waiting on getting crew flown in, and a repeat, in reverse, of the ships traveling back with crew to distribute to other ships.

 

I don't hold with the "week by week" chance of restarting cruising in the US.  As I've said in many threads lately, what the cruise lines have submitted to the CDC, the advisory board's recommendations, are a "position paper" or "negotiating points", not the action plans the CDC wants.  And, based on comments by the Carnival CEO a few weeks ago, about it being too early to decide on protocols, and with the hoopla that the cruise lines put out when submitting the Healthy Sail report, if they have developed action plans based on the report, they would have advertised this as well.  I feel they are waiting for the CDC to say that the Healthy Sail report meets their requirements, in outline, or that there are some areas still in contention, and once those are cleared up, then the lines will start to promulgate their action plans.  These will require documentation of the actually contracted private health care facilities, transportation services, and quarantine locations, and listings of available assets those companies bring to the action plan.

 

Personally, I see a continued lack of leadership by the cruise lines' executives, and a continuing hope on their part that the pandemic will just go away.

Edited October 6, 2020 by chengkp75

[island lady]

16 hours ago, atricks said:

 

Carnival Still shows Miami and Port Canaveral cruises available November and December, but nothing anywhere else in November.

 

Carnival just sunk a ton of dollars into the huge new terminal they built in PC...which was finished and yet to be used.  Yeah, not surprising they would like to play with their new investment.  😉 

[ipeeinthepool]

21 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Personally, I see a continued lack of leadership by the cruise lines' executives, and a continuing hope on their part that the pandemic will just go away.

 

Sadly, I think you are correct.  

[Mapleleafforever]

On 10/5/2020 at 4:28 PM, ace2542 said:

It is even clear that crews working on ships  out of the USA or calling into the USA on a regular basis can come back to work with so many million unemployed Americans?. Perhaps the American government will no longer give backing to those foreign workers forcing them to employ Americans instead if they wish to operate out of or into the USA?. If so that is complete job training of more than 6 weeks for thousands of new staff?

I get what you're saying but this isn't even possible for a few reasons the biggest of which is I don't see any Americans (or Canadians for that matter) who would even want these jobs......too much work and too long away from home. Then there's the fact that they'll have to abide by American labour laws and have to pay American minimum wage. That would drive up prices. I do like your thinking though. 

[bouhunter]

23 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Not sure what you mean by "starting up all the systems".  The technical systems needed for propulsion and powering the ship have always been running.  Hotel equipment like galley and laundry doesn't need a lot of "start up".  I suspect the ships may be waiting on getting crew flown in, and a repeat, in reverse, of the ships traveling back with crew to distribute to other ships.

 

I don't hold with the "week by week" chance of restarting cruising in the US.  As I've said in many threads lately, what the cruise lines have submitted to the CDC, the advisory board's recommendations, are a "position paper" or "negotiating points", not the action plans the CDC wants.  And, based on comments by the Carnival CEO a few weeks ago, about it being too early to decide on protocols, and with the hoopla that the cruise lines put out when submitting the Healthy Sail report, if they have developed action plans based on the report, they would have advertised this as well.  I feel they are waiting for the CDC to say that the Healthy Sail report meets their requirements, in outline, or that there are some areas still in contention, and once those are cleared up, then the lines will start to promulgate their action plans.  These will require documentation of the actually contracted private health care facilities, transportation services, and quarantine locations, and listings of available assets those companies bring to the action plan.

 

Personally, I see a continued lack of leadership by the cruise lines' executives, and a continuing hope on their part that the pandemic will just go away.

Thanks for the input.  Anyone who is still hoping to cruise in 2020 needs to read and understand this.

Edited October 7, 2020 by bouhunter

[boscobeans]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:09 AM, chengkp75 said:

 

 

I will still hold to my 4-6 week timeline to get a ship up and running, given the restrictions on travel, quarantine time, and restarting the supply chain.  As noted, the ships in the Caribbean do not have the proper staff to make a full crew.  I foresee ships travelling to ports that have no crew change restrictions (Gibraltar, some Scandinavian countries) to pick up crew who have been flown in charter flights from the home countries, and then taking the crew to the Caribbean to shuffle crew.  This could extend the timeline to 6-8 weeks, IMO.

 

ROYAL CARIBBEAN QUANTUM OF THE SEAS SCHEDULED TO CRUISE OUT OF SINGAPORE ON SHORT CRUISES TO NOWHERE ITINERARIES STARTINH ON DECEMBER 01, 2020. 

   

I guess the Royal Caribbean Quantum of the Seas wasn't just sitting around while anchored off the coast of Singapore.

 

Who knows precisely how far along all those other ships anchored around the world, all near convenient re-staffing locations are?
Looks like RCCL could get a ship staffed, provisioned  and fully operational before anyone imagined.

There is NO REASON they can't do the same for cruises leaving from U.S. ports aside from POLITICS...

bosco

[CSHS1979]

24 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

ROYAL CARIBBEAN QUANTUM OF THE SEAS SCHEDULED TO CRUISE OUT OF SINGAPORE ON SHORT CRUISES TO NOWHERE ITINERARIES STARTINH ON DECEMBER 01, 2020. 

   

I guess the Royal Caribbean Quantum of the Seas wasn't just sitting around while anchored off the coast of Singapore.

 

Who knows precisely how far along all those other ships anchored around the world, all near convenient re-staffing locations are?
Looks like RCCL could get a ship staffed, provisioned  and fully operational before anyone imagined.

There is NO REASON they can't do the same for cruises leaving from U.S. ports aside from POLITICS...

bosco

 

7 weeks from now, a country that allows it, and a cruise with no ports. How are those for REASONS. 😉

[time4u2go]

26 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

ROYAL CARIBBEAN QUANTUM OF THE SEAS SCHEDULED TO CRUISE OUT OF SINGAPORE ON SHORT CRUISES TO NOWHERE ITINERARIES STARTINH ON DECEMBER 01, 2020. 

   

I guess the Royal Caribbean Quantum of the Seas wasn't just sitting around while anchored off the coast of Singapore.

 

Who knows precisely how far along all those other ships anchored around the world, all near convenient re-staffing locations are?
Looks like RCCL could get a ship staffed, provisioned  and fully operational before anyone imagined.

There is NO REASON they can't do the same for cruises leaving from U.S. ports aside from POLITICS...

bosco

The first Singapore cruise is 7+ weeks out, which aligns with what chengkp75 stated regarding getting a ship up and running.

[yogimax]

3 hours ago, boscobeans said:

 

There is NO REASON they can't do the same for cruises leaving from U.S. ports aside from POLITICS...

I don't understand.  Please explain.