New health guidelines for the future

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Closer to 0 (Zero) capacity.

Have any of the cruise lines said what limited capacity really means? Is it 50%? Or 30%? Or 10%? 

[d9704011]

48 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Have any of the cruise lines said what limited capacity really means? Is it 50%? Or 30%? Or 10%? 

Not that I’m aware of.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Not that I’m aware of.

I have also only seen "limited", which is why I asked the question.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I have also only seen "limited", which is why I asked the question.

I suspect that it will depend upon the specific plan for each ship, if a ship shows that they can do the appropriate social distancing at 60% they will get it.  Another ship might only be able to accomplish the necessary distancing at 40%.  Depend upon the number and size of dining venues and other spaces on the ship.  Basically it will depend upon the details plan developed in response to the framework instead of an arbitrary number defined in the frame work.

[d9704011]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

I suspect that it will depend upon the specific plan for each ship, if a ship shows that they can do the appropriate social distancing at 60% they will get it.  Another ship might only be able to accomplish the necessary distancing at 40%.  Depend upon the number and size of dining venues and other spaces on the ship.  Basically it will depend upon the details plan developed in response to the framework instead of an arbitrary number defined in the frame work.

I agree that the number will not likely be arbitrary and the %age of maximum capacity may vary from ship to ship.  I think though that it will come down to choke points/activities such as embarking/disembarking passengers (including tenders if necessary), elevator use and capacity to treat infection (beyond simple isolation).

[pris993]

On 10/8/2020 at 11:08 AM, CineGraphic said:

 

Those are all personal choices, so you either have to decide to not cruise, or to carry your pad at night so you can order drinks or view shows.

Not a personal choice if one does not own a smart phone or tablet... at 74/88 we have no need for either, plan to cruise about once a year, so do not see this as a good investment to get one at this point. 

[mcrcruiser]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

I suspect that it will depend upon the specific plan for each ship, if a ship shows that they can do the appropriate social distancing at 60% they will get it.  Another ship might only be able to accomplish the necessary distancing at 40%.  Depend upon the number and size of dining venues and other spaces on the ship.  Basically it will depend upon the details plan developed in response to the framework instead of an arbitrary number defined in the frame work.

It is rather hard to visualize   6 ft pf consistent social distancing   on any cruise ship  .For instance the buffet  ,unless the cruise lines stager  dining & the pax load is quite smaller  on that ship  .This is how we  see the  immediate future  . Another issue that the cruise lines will need to address is will they place hand wash basins at the entrances to the buffets & MD ? Still a lot of  unanswered questions  .For sure masks will be mandatory   for a very long time  .Even here at home we use both masks & then shields over the masks 

[nocl]

8 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

It is rather hard to visualize   6 ft pf consistent social distancing   on any cruise ship  .For instance the buffet  ,unless the cruise lines stager  dining & the pax load is quite smaller  on that ship  .This is how we  see the  immediate future  . Another issue that the cruise lines will need to address is will they place hand wash basins at the entrances to the buffets & MD ? Still a lot of  unanswered questions  .For sure masks will be mandatory   for a very long time  .Even here at home we use both masks & then shields over the masks 

from what I have read the buffet spaces on operating ships are not operating as buffets. You sit at a table and place an order. A crew member bri gs it to you.

[trvlwrld]

Saying that masks will be mandatory for a very long time is conjecture (let’s hope)...many of us will not cruise if there is a mask order in place.  There are very very few cases of reinfection, so making those people and ones with antibodies wear masks is going to eliminate a significant group of cruisers.  If you are one of the hypersensitive people who needs to be cautious, cruising is probably not a good fit

[pris993]

10 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

It is rather hard to visualize   6 ft pf consistent social distancing   on any cruise ship  .For instance the buffet  ,unless the cruise lines stager  dining & the pax load is quite smaller  on that ship  .This is how we  see the  immediate future  . Another issue that the cruise lines will need to address is will they place hand wash basins at the entrances to the buffets & MD ? Still a lot of  unanswered questions  .For sure masks will be mandatory   for a very long time  .Even here at home we use both masks & then shields over the masks 

I wonder how long it will take for passengers to wash hands outside the buffet or MDR???  Would guess a long line unless meals are served all day in both places.  Alternative is to have all meals served and to allow more room service options.  I only use masks when I can't social distance and am less concerned when outside. When we cruise we book a mini suite ... use our cabin and balcony a lot.  Would guess we will do even more so if masks are required.  We cruise to enjoy being at sea, can enjoy that very well from our cabin.  

[nocl]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:38 AM, Ombud said:

this won't help those across the pond just yet BUT Oakland International Airport announced free Covid-19 tests for those getting on a plane. They suggest allowing an extra hour so the results will be in before you board. I may look at flying from Oakland instead of SF which still charges $250 for the test (unless SF counters with free tests)

 

I can see this happening worldwide eventually 

Of course the question is what kind of test (antigen vs PCR) and who will accept it?

[Shaver John]

I think the most we are concerned about are the elevators on cruise ships. We were on the Sky and what a mess every day was with elevators. We only used the elevators when we had to, embarkation and debarkation as we do carry on, but we saw such messes when folks trying to put in 20 folks at a time after a show or dinner.  Can't even think how that will change, so many folks need the elevators and it will take hours to socially distance and get everyone where they need to get to with wheel chairs, canes, and walkers. Can not figure how they will disembark which so many folks carrying their own suitcases while trying to get off the ship early. We will see I guess.....

 

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, pris993 said:

I wonder how long it will take for passengers to wash hands outside the buffet or MDR???  Would guess a long line unless meals are served all day in both places.  Alternative is to have all meals served and to allow more room service options.  I only use masks when I can't social distance and am less concerned when outside. When we cruise we book a mini suite ... use our cabin and balcony a lot.  Would guess we will do even more so if masks are required.  We cruise to enjoy being at sea, can enjoy that very well from our cabin.  

A major problem with the 6 ft rule is that some one who may have sympton sneezes or coughs the droplets can carry up to 27 feet  .Thus ,the protection needed is N95 rates masks 

 

[HUNKY]

Hawaii has successfully? implemented a 72 hour testing requirement.  $250 quick test at DFW on the way to HNL.

[Daniel A]

40 minutes ago, HUNKY said:

Hawaii has successfully? implemented a 72 hour testing requirement.  $250 quick test at DFW on the way to HNL.

New York just instituted an alternative to immediate 14 day quarantine upon entry.  Negative test within 3 days prior to entry, 3 days isolation - on 4th day in NY must take a test. A negative test on 4th day permits you to leave quarantine.

 

On Norwegian cruises there was always a very friendly young woman at the buffet entrance who kept saying 'washy, washy' and in order to enter the buffet area you had to let her spray your hands with sanitizer.  Every single time.  I don't know how effective this was in reducing Noro but it made me more comfortable to know everybody in there had been sprayed.

[nocl]

6 hours ago, trvlwrld said:

Saying that masks will be mandatory for a very long time is conjecture (let’s hope)...many of us will not cruise if there is a mask order in place.  There are very very few cases of reinfection, so making those people and ones with antibodies wear masks is going to eliminate a significant group of cruisers.  If you are one of the hypersensitive people who needs to be cautious, cruising is probably not a good fit

There are very few cases of reinfection, because not much time has passed since the initial infection. so not much time for immunity to wear off, plus less than 15 percent of the population has been infected in the US so statistically one should not have run into the virus twice (unless they are totally ignoring recommendations for avoiding it).

 

We will not know about how long natural immunity lasts after original infection for a while yet since the first infections in the US occurred less than a year ago and in the first couple of months there were not that many.

[pris993]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

A major problem with the 6 ft rule is that some one who may have sympton sneezes or coughs the droplets can carry up to 27 feet  .Thus ,the protection needed is N95 rates masks 

 

That is true anywhere, do you stop living?  I am not concerned.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

A major problem with the 6 ft rule is that some one who may have sympton sneezes or coughs the droplets can carry up to 27 feet  .Thus ,the protection needed is N95 rates masks 

 

Not necessarily.  N95 is needed in a high density virus environment.  Which is not  short term contact and 1 person sneezing.  Studies have shown in low virus environments (which is what most people face, if there are not in a medical center treating Covid patients) non-N95 masks doing quite well. If you have a bunch of people in an indoor environment with poor ventilation for an extended length of time and there are multiple infected people shedding virus then maybe an N95 would be an advantage, but in reality one should not be in that environment in the first place.

 

N95 masks only do better if they are properly worn, properly fitted and properly handled, which is rather rare for non- trained personnel.  As a medical grade 3 layer masks are perfectly adequate for most situations.

[Daniel A]

35 minutes ago, nocl said:

Not necessarily.  N95 is needed in a high density virus environment.  Which is not  short term contact and 1 person sneezing.  Studies have shown in low virus environments (which is what most people face, if there are not in a medical center treating Covid patients) non-N95 masks doing quite well. If you have a bunch of people in an indoor environment with poor ventilation for an extended length of time and there are multiple infected people shedding virus then maybe an N95 would be an advantage, but in reality one should not be in that environment in the first place.

 

N95 masks only do better if they are properly worn, properly fitted and properly handled, which is rather rare for non- trained personnel.  As a medical grade 3 layer masks are perfectly adequate for most situations.

My concern is the people who just buy an N-95 and never get fit tested and think they're protected when they're not because the type of N-95 won't conform and make a tight seal.

[caribill]

12 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

A major problem with the 6 ft rule is that some one who may have sympton sneezes or coughs the droplets can carry up to 27 feet  .Thus ,the protection needed is N95 rates masks 

 

 

The purpose of everyone wearing masks is not to protect the wearer (although it helps), but to keep an infected person from infecting others by containing droplets from sneezes or coughs within the mask they are wearing. An N95 mask is not required to do that.

 

People who say they are willing to take the risk of not wearing a mask do not realize they are putting others at risk, not themselves.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

The purpose of everyone wearing masks is not to protect the wearer (although it helps), but to keep an infected person from infecting others by containing droplets from sneezes or coughs within the mask they are wearing. An N95 mask is not required to do that.

 

People who say they are willing to take the risk of not wearing a mask do not realize they are putting others at risk, not themselves.

Or they do not care!

 

Or they believe that it is all a hoax. (Edited after you showed in another thread how to do that now.)

Edited November 8, 2020 by ontheweb
added second paragraph

[trvlwrld]

...or they have already had it or tested negative with antibodies

[mcrcruiser]

23 hours ago, trvlwrld said:

Saying that masks will be mandatory for a very long time is conjecture (let’s hope)...many of us will not cruise if there is a mask order in place.  There are very very few cases of reinfection, so making those people and ones with antibodies wear masks is going to eliminate a significant group of cruisers.  If you are one of the hypersensitive people who needs to be cautious, cruising is probably not a good fit

Wearing masks protects others from getting infected  . There are new strains of covid (mutations) that have been observed .One at Mink Farms in Denmark ,another  with a chief engineer on a freighter   .what has happened is that Covid id mutating . Thus ,both current antibodies & the vaccines (unless they include the new strains} will  not protect the populations .This why we see  the need for masks going forward . Those who do not wish to follow the cruise lines rules will not be able to cruise . Also washing of hands thoroughly  should be made mandatory before entering into any dining  facility . The cruise lines could place 3 sinks on port & 3 sinks on starboard  . Now we all wait to see the rules when the ships start sailing after the first of the year here in the US ports  .We can also see testing  being made mandatory before boarding ,Perhaps a quick test with 100%accuracy  ,if available at that time

[mcrcruiser]

Another issue for the cruise lines will be trying to attract us older folks back on ships . We are in our early  80a with underlying medical issues ,unless we feel safe to cruise ,it will not happen for us 

 

 The cruise lines recognize  that a high  percentage of their customers are older folks ,so we feel that they will do what ever they can to make cruising safe again to keep that segment of the pax returning to cruising  . 

[memoak]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Another issue for the cruise lines will be trying to attract us older folks back on ships . We are in our early  80a with underlying medical issues ,unless we feel safe to cruise ,it will not happen for us 

 

 The cruise lines recognize  that a high  percentage of their customers are older folks ,so we feel that they will do what ever they can to make cruising safe again to keep that segment of the pax returning to cruising  . 

As I have said before we need a vaccine to get back to cruising