Cruise without a vaccine

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Sometimes navybankerteacher is a voice of reason and sometimes not, I think.

 

In this case I agree with navybankerteacher. Maybe it will improve the situation if people who don't take it serious die. That doesn't mean that we want people to die. 

well, I call that hate speech, I call it inflammatory,  I call it mean, I call it evil

[lifes-a-beach]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

 

If they die - no great loss.  It just improves the gene pool.  That is Darwin at work.

 

DON

You are such a *insert profanity here* for this attitude.  *insert profanity here* off.

[GrJ Berkshire]

I have said this before, but stand by it: Anyone who does not get vaccinated without medical reasons and cannot show a vaccination certificate will become "21st Century Lepers" unable to go anywhere or do anything be it travel, flights , cruises, restaurants, theatres, etc etc, other people will shun them!!!!

 

Lets get real who wants to mix with a covid-19 spreader..........

[Tiggertastic]

39 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

I have said this before, but stand by it: Anyone who does not get vaccinated without medical reasons and cannot show a vaccination certificate will become "21st Century Lepers" unable to go anywhere or do anything be it travel, flights , cruises, restaurants, theatres, etc etc, other people will shun them!!!!

 

Lets get real who wants to mix with a covid-19 spreader..........

That’s patient choice and informed consent, more hermit than leper I’d suggest. I’m currently setting up covid vaccine clinics and we’ve run the numbers on eligibility by category priority for planning but we have no idea how many will say yes or no. Secondly there is no mention of any letter or certificate confirming vaccine given in the process for deliver. If we don’t do something at the time of vaccine, the dr surgery is going to get inundated with requests later. However we have no idea what an internationally accepted format would look like.

[sverigecruiser]

57 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

I have said this before, but stand by it: Anyone who does not get vaccinated without medical reasons and cannot show a vaccination certificate will become "21st Century Lepers" unable to go anywhere or do anything be it travel, flights , cruises, restaurants, theatres, etc etc, other people will shun them!!!!

 

Lets get real who wants to mix with a covid-19 spreader..........

 

It will be interesting to see if you are correct when everything starts up again.

 

My guess, which is only a guess and nothing more, is that very few "places" will require vaccinations. I'm rather sure that it won't be required for anything in Sweden.

[SelectSys]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

...In simple terms I thought it made sense for the to bear some or all the cost of their anti-vax decision.  But in the USA we do not penalize folks for bad decision making when it comes to healthcare.

 

 

This kind of reminds of the rationale behind motorcycle helmet laws.  Those that don't want to wear helmets  still want others to pay for their idiocy when they crash.

 

I don't think the USA really penalizes anyone too much for bad decisions anymore.  Much of crime has been "decriminalized" where I live.  Is it any wonder that crime - using the old metrics of recording - is increasing? 

 

A story from San Francisco

https://www.city-journal.org/san-francisco-crime

 

My own house was robbed post Prop 47 for the first time ever a couple of years ago.  The criminal left DNA evidence that was used to identify him.  He was never even tried on the charges as it wasn't worth the DA's effort...

[SelectSys]

With respect to the original topic - I think having one or more vaccines on the horizon suggests to me that the cruise lines and ports will simply wait it out and require all passengers on cruise ships to be vaccinated.  The extra risks and liabilities just don't seem worth it given volume vaccine availability sometime in 2021.

Edited November 19, 2020 by SelectSys

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

well, I call that hate speech, I call it inflammatory,  I call it mean, I call it evil

And I call you naively judgmental.  If someone has to die, why is it not better than it be the bloody minded idiots who refuse to follow decent precautions than the innocent people they infect?

[Mary229]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And I call you naively judgmental.  If someone has to die, why is it not better than it be the bloody minded idiots who refuse to follow decent precautions than the innocent people they infect?

No, I am not naive. Hyperbole is not going to win any argument.  I am sorry you are so frustrated that you wish others would die.  I can't say I will ever wish other people to die.  

[navybankerteacher]

19 hours ago, Mary229 said:

well, I call that hate speech, I call it inflammatory,  I call it mean, I call it evil

 

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

No, I am not naive. Hyperbole is not going to win any argument.  I am sorry you are so frustrated that you wish others would die.  I can't say I will ever wish other people to die.  

See above examples of hyperbole.  (“hate speech”, “inflammatory”, “mean”, “evil”)

 

To stay on topic:  IF someone is to be taken out of circulation,  wouldn’t it be more appropriate for that person to be someone whose continued existence would infect others rather than a person who behaved responsibly?

[slidergirl]

5 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

Links proving natural immunity from Covid is strong and long lasting before anyone suggests otherwise:

 

Even mild Covid-19 cases confer ‘durable immunity,’ new studies find.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html

 

"Scientists who have been monitoring immune responses to the coronavirus for months are now starting to see encouraging signs of strong, lasting immunity, even in people who developed only mild symptoms of Covid-19, a flurry of new studies has found."

Long-Lasting Immunity Follows Serious COVID Cases

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201013/long-lasting-immunity-seems-to-follow-serious-covid-cases

 

"researchers found that measuring an antibody called immunoglobulin G (IgG) was highly accurate in identifying infected patients who had symptoms for at least 14 days. The levels of antibodies remained high for four months and were linked with high levels of other protective antibodies, which didn't decrease over time."

COVID-19: Vaccines continue to progress as more proof of long-lasting immunity emerges

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-vaccines-continue-to-progress-as-more-proof-of-long-lasting-immunity-emerges

 

"Scientists have shown that those who have had the virus may have at least some level of lasting immunity. This is helpful not just for those who have had the infection, but also for using their plasma and possibly T cells to treat others.

For instance, researchers at the University of Arizona College of Medicine in Tucson have found that people who have had COVID-19 develop long-lasting immunity. Their study appears in the journal Immunity.

Even more hopeful is the parallel that Prof. Bhattacharya draws with SARS-CoV-2’s cousin, SARS-CoV, where evidence suggests immunity could last 12–17 years.

“If SARS-CoV-2 is anything like the first one, we expect antibodies to last at least 2 years, and it would be unlikely for anything much shorter,” he says."

Robust neutralizing antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 infection persist for months

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/27/science.abd7728

 

"Here we report that the vast majority of infected individuals with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 experience robust IgG antibody responses against the viral spike protein, based on a dataset of 30,082 individuals screened at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. We also show that titers are relatively stable for at least a period approximating 5 months and that anti-spike binding titers significantly correlate with neutralization of authentic SARS-CoV-2. Our data suggests that more than 90% of seroconverters make detectible neutralizing antibody responses. These titers remain relatively stable for several months after infection."

Wow: Data suggests immunity from COVID may least years — or decades

 

https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2020/11/17/wow-data-suggests-immunity-covid-may-least-years-decades/

 

Want to see the results of my antibody test???  Please be very careful about spreading this.   Within my group of over 115,000 COVID survivors, the length of time our antibodies test positive has been anywhere from 2 months to 8+ months.  It is hard and frustrating work to try to get a health care provider to give a test that provides titer levels - usually they only have access to the "positive/negative" test.  We have to give lots of convalescent plasma to get tested.  

[broberts]

6 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

There are already many MILLIONS of people who have now had Covid itself and who now have strong immunity, lasting immunity in the form of both anti-bodies and T-Cells.

 

There are also cases of re-infection and lapsing immunity. I don't think one can make definitive statements in this area. Probably won't have a good handle on natural or acquired immunity for a few years.

 

 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Want to see the results of my antibody test???  Please be very careful about spreading this.   Within my group of over 115,000 COVID survivors, the length of time our antibodies test positive has been anywhere from 2 months to 8+ months.  It is hard and frustrating work to try to get a health care provider to give a test that provides titer levels - usually they only have access to the "positive/negative" test.  We have to give lots of convalescent plasma to get tested.  

This must be very frustrating to you, both the problem getting tests and the misinformation you see spread here.

 

Wishing you the best going forward with your health.

[slidergirl]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

This must be very frustrating to you, both the problem getting tests and the misinformation you see spread here.

 

Wishing you the best going forward with your health.

Thank you, ontheweb.  It is indeed frustrating all the way around.  

If anyone is interesting in seeing how COVID affects people in real life, look at Survivor Corps on FB.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

Thank you, ontheweb.  It is indeed frustrating all the way around.  

If anyone is interesting in seeing how COVID affects people in real life, look at Survivor Corps on FB.  

Your welcome.

 

Isn't it amazing how people just make things up and put them forward as if they were facts.

[slidergirl]

When it comes to getting the vaccine, I sure wish this question could be asked and verified: "Did you wear a mask, social distance and practice good hand sanitation?"  If yes, you get on the list, if no, you are put on the bottom of the "wait list."  Never happen, but I sure wish it were possible.  No vaccine, no cruise.  

 

I wouldn't wish COVID on anyone.  

[navybankerteacher]

28 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

When it comes to getting the vaccine, I sure wish this question could be asked and verified: "Did you wear a mask, social distance and practice good hand sanitation?"  If yes, you get on the list, if no, you are put on the bottom of the "wait list."  Never happen, but I sure wish it were possible.  No vaccine, no cruise.  

 

I wouldn't wish COVID on anyone.  

I guess  there is no way to deny vaccine to COVID deniers - or COVID treatment to vaccine refusers - but there surely should be a way to deny cruise berths to vaccine refusers.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:43 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

For me it should be okay if people refusing vaccines should pay more of the cost for treatment. But then smokers, drinkers, people eating too much, people exercising too little etc. shall also pay more of the cost for treatments related to their bad decisions.    

 

And then let's turn the whole healthcare system over to the government so that can use all of these things to control our lives.

[Toofarfromthesea]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

See above examples of hyperbole.  (“hate speech”, “inflammatory”, “mean”, “evil”)

 

To stay on topic:  IF someone is to be taken out of circulation,  wouldn’t it be more appropriate for that person to be someone whose continued existence would infect others rather than a person who behaved responsibly?

 

No, not if the former is a highly skilled, highly educated person who provides significant value added to society and the latter is someone with none of those things.

I never realized how authoritarion some posters are.

[Toofarfromthesea]

9 hours ago, broberts said:

 

There are also cases of re-infection and lapsing immunity. I don't think one can make definitive statements in this area. Probably won't have a good handle on natural or acquired immunity for a few years.

 

 

You are talking about anecdotal stories vs. actual studies.  I.E., gossip vs. science.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

This must be very frustrating to you, both the problem getting tests and the misinformation you see spread here.

 

Wishing you the best going forward with your health.

So that poster gave several actual cites and it is disinformation?

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

When it comes to getting the vaccine, I sure wish this question could be asked and verified: "Did you wear a mask, social distance and practice good hand sanitation?"  If yes, you get on the list, if no, you are put on the bottom of the "wait list."  Never happen, but I sure wish it were possible.  No vaccine, no cruise.  

 

I wouldn't wish COVID on anyone.  

You just did!

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

So that poster gave several actual cites and it is disinformation?

Come to my house and you can watch me get nauseous with Vertigo... Come with me to my opthalmologist and look at the damage to my eye.  Come shopping with me and see how I have run out to the car and sit because I've run out of energy and I feel like passing out.  

 

Go to Survivor Corps and see just how many people are re-experiencing COVID.  Personally, I get depressed everyday when a member of the group tells us a family member just died from COVID.  

 

I didn't wish COVID on anyone - I just want them to wait until people who put public health above themseves get their vaccine first.  The non-masker hasn't gotten COVID yet, she can wait a little longer. 

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

And then let's turn the whole healthcare system over to the government so that can use all of these things to control our lives.

 

And I don't want that so it's probably better to keep the healthcare the way it is, at least the way it is here.

 

What I meant was that if people who refuse to vaccinate shall be refused treatments, or pay more for it, it shall also be the same for people making other bad decisions.

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

So that poster gave several actual cites and it is disinformation?

Slidergirl already answered much better than I would be able to answer.