Key West Votes to Limit Cruise Ship Visits

[KirkNC]

22 minutes ago, 0bnxshs said:

That's what I said.

Ok, I missed that in your quote.

[KirkNC]

28 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

No wonder we got along so well when we met on a cruise a few years back.

 

I hope you guys are doing well and are enjoying the reunion with your luggage.😊

 

DW, world's finest elementary art teacher, just physically got back to school this morning. For the last week plus all teaching has been virtual as one of the students got the virus and the school was on quarantine.

 

 

Great minds think alike!

 

Sorry to hear about the school.  I am afraid that is a no win situation until the virus cools off.

 

Take care!

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I agree but it is usually about the dollar.  I have always felt in many ports the economic impact of a cruise ship is over stated.  Key West maybe an exception as most just wander the town and probably do spend money in shops or restaurants.  

 

Maybe....but I feel like a lot of the shops in Key West now are not locally owned/operated. And I'm not sure how many really eat in the local restaurants -- some will, sure, but others will have a quick look around and then head back to the ship. 

 

Plus, Key West has enough tourists who come and stay that I'm not sure they'd miss the cruisers all that much.

 

[cruisemom42]

14 hours ago, nocl said:

 

Though I would not be surprised if the small ship subsidiary lines of the majors boycott Key west just to send a message what happens if you try to limit the lines.

 

On the other hand, given that they like to differentiate their brands, the large cruise corporations might be happy with the decision if they have a small-ship premium or luxury line -- it could drive passengers to "upgrade"...  For example, a RCCL or Celebrity cruiser may upgrade to Azamara, or an NCL cruiser to Oceania.

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Great minds think alike!

 

Sorry to hear about the school.  I am afraid that is a no win situation until the virus cools off.

 

Take care!

Yes, it is a dilemma. As a society we cannot afford children not attending schools forever. Teachers are doing their best with google classroom, but it is still not the same and there is also the factor of young people learning to socialize. But, as we all unfortunately know, we are in a pandemic.

[Mary229]

55 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, it is a dilemma. As a society we cannot afford children not attending schools forever. Teachers are doing their best with google classroom, but it is still not the same and there is also the factor of young people learning to socialize. But, as we all unfortunately know, we are in a pandemic.

And Academy of American Pediatrics agrees children should be in school.  Just follow the science as so many on this board want to preach when the science agrees with their position

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school

 

AAP School Guidance

Edited November 4, 2020 by Mary229

[nocl]

7 hours ago, KirkNC said:

My thoughts exactly.

Of course the people loosing money will be those that moved into support the cruise industry.  The t-shirt shops and other type businesses that you now see in just about every port stop in the Caribbean and Alaska.  Many owned by non-residents, that employ labor that is also only there for a short time. The resorts and restaurants (except for the key lime pie shops) make more from the over night hotel guests.

 

Overall revenue and tax revenue for the city might drop, but for voters (residents) I suspect the quality of life improvement will outweigh any revenue loss.  

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

And Academy of American Pediatrics agrees children should be in school.  Just follow the science as so many on this board want to preach when the science agrees with their position

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school

 

AAP School Guidance

 

You omitted the following sentence, which is also quite vital to the overall message:

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. Unfortunately, in many parts of the United States, there is currently uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2. Although the AAP strongly advocates for in-person learning for the coming school year, the current widespread circulation of the virus will not permit in-person learning to be safely accomplished in many jurisdictions.

[Mary229]

14 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You omitted the following sentence, which is also quite vital to the overall message:

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. Unfortunately, in many parts of the United States, there is currently uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2. Although the AAP strongly advocates for in-person learning for the coming school year, the current widespread circulation of the virus will not permit in-person learning to be safely accomplished in many jurisdictions.

I gave the link so you could read it.  I, unlike others, always provide a link to my resources.  They highlight in bold the statement I quoted.  As a matter of fact it is the only statement that is in bold typeface.  

the document is lengthy and though I did read it in full I certainly was not going to quote the entire text.  I included the only boldfaced quote

. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Mary229

[FlaMariner]

Looks like they only want to cater to the elite rich folks in those small luxury ships that we don't have the $$$ for.........I thought they were welcoming to diverse folks?  Sounds elitist to me.....Oh well, no real loss and I hope they enjoy walling of their piece of paradise.  Not welcoming to me.  

[nocl]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Maybe....but I feel like a lot of the shops in Key West now are not locally owned/operated. And I'm not sure how many really eat in the local restaurants -- some will, sure, but others will have a quick look around and then head back to the ship. 

 

Plus, Key West has enough tourists who come and stay that I'm not sure they'd miss the cruisers all that much.

 

The high volume low margin shops (t-shirt, cosmetic  shops, etc) that depend upon the masses from cruise ships will certainly lose income, as well the key lime pie shops on each corner.

 

The high pressure cosmetic shops have had a controversy all of their own.

[FredT]

1 hour ago, FlaMariner said:

Looks like they only want to cater to the elite rich folks in those small luxury ships that we don't have the $$$ for.........I thought they were welcoming to diverse folks?  Sounds elitist to me.....Oh well, no real loss and I hope they enjoy walling of their piece of paradise.  Not welcoming to me.  

No....   With a finite land area, and a finite infrastructure, they want to MAXIMISE the income of the tourists that do visit.  If you could accommodate lets say 3000 tourists in a day, and you have a choice of 3000 cruise ship visitors (who spend about $30.00 on Key lime ice cream and trinkets) or 3000 tourists that will stay in your bed and breakfasts, eat in your restaurants, use your dive shops, rent your scooters (for 2-3 DAYS and not 2-3 hours) which would YOU do?   

 

PS:   We have been to Key West 3 times.  Once on a "land" vacation, twice on a cruise ship....   On the land trip we stayed 3 nights in a B&B on Duval street, ate 9 meals in local restaurants, (Blue Heaven and Kelleys were favorites) took a dive trip out to the reefs, and rented the aforementioned scooters for 2 days...  On our cruise stops we wandered Duval st, and had a QUICK lunch at a couple of (cheap) local dives.  And you wonder who the locals want?   

[Hlitner]

I have posted in the Key West forum on this topic but will put some comments here.  DW and really love vacationing in KW (will be there again,...in a few weeks) and it is one of our favorite places in the USA.  We also know some locals including one friend who has lived in KW for about 30 years.  Bottom line is that a majority of the residents in that small city do not want large cruise ships or the hoards of cruise ship passengers.  While passengers do spend some money (during the daytime) in a few bars and touristy shops, the mass market line passengers are not major contributors to the local economy.  The downside is that large ships fill one part of the town (Mallory Square and the the first few blocks of Duval Street) and cause congestion.  Key West is basically a very liberal laid back town and a majority of the locals see large ships (and their hoards) as a negative factor.  To the folks who live and love KW, preserving the small town fun atmosphere is everything!  So, these folks voted, overwhelmingly, to vastly limit ships.  While they are fine with the smaller luxury vessels they do not want large ships....especially the really large mega ships.

 

The lack of large ships will certainly be missed by a handful of bars and tacky shops.  But many others will be grateful for the lack of hoards.  The entire city of KW has about 25,000 residents and 2 or 3 large ships can add another 6-10,000 which is nutz!  While I also enjoy visiting KW on some cruises, I will not miss ships when I am there as a longer term visitor (spending money on hotels, restaurants, etc).  

 

I have posted about the growing trend (around the world) against cruise ships...especially the larger mega ships.  The reality is that the passengers do not contribute that much to the local economy with many spending their money on a few tour companies.  The downside is a lot of cruisers and ships can drive away the real tourists (the ones who stay in the town for multiple days) and create congestion not appreciated by many locals.  Key West is not the first (or likely the last) to try to limit or ban ships.  Venice, Italy has finally banned large ships (IMHO...thank goodness) and there are other ports also talking about bans or limitations on larger vessels.   Even places that do like and welcome ships, such as Santorini, have worked at implementing strict limitations.  Other ports in both Europe and the Caribbean do openly talk about new limitations or bans on ships.

 

Why is this happening?  At one time cruise ships carried 200 - 1200 passengers.  Now, 3000 to 6000 are on some ships with even larger vessels on the drawing boards.  200 or 600 passengers from a luxury vessel, willing to spend real money ashore, are welcome at most places.   But 6000 souls who think a $5 beer is too expensive is not what is sought by these communities.  The hoards of cruisers drive away the tourists that fill the hotels, restaurants, etc.   Places like St Thomas that used to be a great land destination have now become a place to be avoided by many vacationers.  When we stay on St Maarten (in a condo) we make sure to avoid Phillipsburg M-F when it is usually overrun by cruisers.  Islands like St Barts have made it clear they do not ever want large ships and even want to limit the very small luxury vessels.

 

We think cruisers have become their own worst enemies when it comes to being popular with locals.  Many cruisers will only book tours/excursions which give their money to the cruise line, cruise line's contractors, and usually a single local tour company.  We see this in our own winter home town of Puerto Vallarta.  I love to see cruisers out and about PV (and will help them if asked) but when we see those same folks on a guided tour it does not give us a warm fuzzy feeling.  It sounds silly but tour groups are something to be tolerated, but a small group of tourists are to be welcomed.  The hoards of cruisers who spend their day on an excursion to Las Caletas does little to help the locals.  Cruisers and their related large tour groups have alienated locals all over the world and it is now starting to show at the polls, and in local politics.  Ironically, the cruise lines think the best way to deal with COVID is to force cruisers to go on "excursions" that will effectively keep their money out of the pockets of the locals...who desperately need the business.   "Over tourism" has become a well known term and cruise ships are the easiest target to help cure that problem.

 

Hank

[kazu]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We think cruisers have become their own worst enemies when it comes to being popular with locals.  Many cruisers will only book tours/excursions which give their money to the cruise line, cruise line's contractors, and usually a single local tour company.  We see this in our own winter home town of Puerto Vallarta.  I love to see cruisers out and about PV (and will help them if asked) but when we see those same folks on a guided tour it does not give us a warm fuzzy feeling.  It sounds silly but tour groups are something to be tolerated, but a small group of tourists are to be welcomed.  The hoards of cruisers who spend their day on an excursion to Las Caletas does little to help the locals.  Cruisers and their related large tour groups have alienated locals all over the world and it is now starting to show at the polls, and in local politics.  Ironically, the cruise lines think the best way to deal with COVID is to force cruisers to go on "excursions" that will effectively keep their money out of the pockets of the locals...who desperately need the business.   "Over tourism" has become a well known term and cruise ships are the easiest target to help cure that problem.

 

 

I so agree with this statement (oops, paragraph 😉 ) 

 

We mostly DIY or private tours for the intimacy, flexibility and the ‘savour the flavour’.

 

So, we do spread our money around.  On the ships’ excursions, it’s pretty tough to do except in their chosen “shopping stop”.

 

[PSR]

We were there on a cruise once.  It was so hot that my husband decided to stay aboard while I wandered the town. I enjoyed it; fortunately that day there was only one cruiseship docked and there were no hordes of passengers.

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You omitted the following sentence, which is also quite vital to the overall message:

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. Unfortunately, in many parts of the United States, there is currently uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2. Although the AAP strongly advocates for in-person learning for the coming school year, the current widespread circulation of the virus will not permit in-person learning to be safely accomplished in many jurisdictions.

Good catch, shows quotes are like statistics, you can make them say what you want.

[Mary229]

50 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Good catch, shows quotes are like statistics, you can make them say what you want.

I bent nothing.  If you had read the article you would find that the portion i quoted was the only statement boldfaced in the article and is the primary conclusion.  
 

what is sad is the AAP bent to political pressure to alter their original statement which unconditionally stated schools should begin.  

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

To the folks who live and love KW, preserving the small town fun atmosphere is everything!  So, these folks voted, overwhelmingly, to vastly limit ships. 

 

I must add that there is another factor involved in this vote.  I believe from what I have learned over the years while I was a biological science, environmentally concerned educator, the good people of the Keys are truly concerned about the health of the environment that helps to support their economy.  

 

More cruise guests carelessly snorkeling and diving damaging their reefs imperils their existence.  Silt/mud stirred by the screws of the cruise ships adds to the potential damage to the reefs.  

 

Because of environmental damage, the Keys loose their natural attraction, their economy will suffer.  Maybe, more than the loss of tourist dollars at whatever emporium?  

[Hlitner]

20 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I must add that there is another factor involved in this vote.  I believe from what I have learned over the years while I was a biological science, environmentally concerned educator, the good people of the Keys are truly concerned about the health of the environment that helps to support their economy.  

 

More cruise guests carelessly snorkeling and diving damaging their reefs imperils their existence.  Silt/mud stirred by the screws of the cruise ships adds to the potential damage to the reefs.  

 

Because of environmental damage, the Keys loose their natural attraction, their economy will suffer.  Maybe, more than the loss of tourist dollars at whatever emporium?  

I agree there is that!  But I also think so much of the activism in the Keys is to simply keep up with one's neighbors.  The Keys is truly about a laid back attitude (seldom found in the USA) where a good party or celebration trumps all :).  One of the 3 cruise line referendums was about the environment.  Put anything on a ballot in the Keys that has the word "environment" in the description and it will get lots of votes :).  But many of the voters will be too high or smashed to be able to read the word 🙂

 

But I do really think it is the hoards that turn off many locals.  There really is no snorkeling/diving close to town so not sure that is a big issue.  Several of the local tour companies (my favorite is Danger Cruises) do get some business from the cruise passengers and they will not be happy to see fewer cruises.   It is the silly things like the Conch Train that will take a big hit without cruises.  But you will seldom to never find a local on that Conch Train.  

 

Hank

 

[cat shepard]

14 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I must add that there is another factor involved in this vote.  I believe from what I have learned over the years while I was a biological science, environmentally concerned educator, the good people of the Keys are truly concerned about the health of the environment that helps to support their economy.  

 

More cruise guests carelessly snorkeling and diving damaging their reefs imperils their existence.  Silt/mud stirred by the screws of the cruise ships adds to the potential damage to the reefs.  

 

Because of environmental damage, the Keys loose their natural attraction, their economy will suffer.  Maybe, more than the loss of tourist dollars at whatever emporium?  

Absolutely, spot on. The Keys passed a ban on sunscreen with certain chemicals last year, and after the damage from the most recent hurricanes - communities are taking a very active approach to protecting the reef & the environment as a whole. 
 

There is so much more to the Keys than Key West. And there is so much more to Key West than Duval St., Mallory Square & sunset cruises.  I have never taken a cruise that docked at Key West, but I have experienced the throngs of 5,000+ people disembarking from a mega ship. It will be interesting to see what the change will look like.

 

I head back for a week at the end of this month, and of course no cruises at all will be stopping while I am there this year. So I might get a sneak preview of the future.
 

 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You omitted the following sentence, which is also quite vital to the overall message:

 

With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. Unfortunately, in many parts of the United States, there is currently uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2. Although the AAP strongly advocates for in-person learning for the coming school year, the current widespread circulation of the virus will not permit in-person learning to be safely accomplished in many jurisdictions.

At some point we have to have a balance. We cannot keep children physically out of schools forever. We cannot sacrifice much of the economy forever. We cannot cause many, many to suffer from mental problems until the end of time.

 

Yes, we have to do everything in our power to mitigate the pandemic, but let us remember there is a price to be paid, and at some point a balance must be reached. We don't shut down everything for the entire winter because tens of thousands die annually from the flu.

 

It is important to start schools back up in a safe as possible manner. And in yellow you have a great CYA statement. School is not cruising, a non-essential activity. You want to follow science without training future scientists????? Yes, there have been setbacks, but there also have been on European cruises, yet no one has said instead of giving a framework for possibly starting cruises in the USA the CDC should have banned them forever. Yet you seem to want to stop all non-virtual schooling.

[Mary229]

Key West is so small that the presence of cruise ship passengers cannot pass unnoticed by the residents trying to live their daily lives.  I get that.   I have a few favorite beaches, which will be left unnamed, that were discovered this year by northern COVID-refugees.  The added population was noticeable everywhere including in the waterways. It is simply a nuisance for locales not interested in expansion and growth. 

[kazu]

17 minutes ago, cat shepard said:

Absolutely, spot on. The Keys passed a ban on sunscreen with certain chemicals last year, and after the damage from the most recent hurricanes - communities are taking a very active approach to protecting the reef & the environment as a whole. 

 

They are not the only ones.  When we did our Hawaii, Tahiti, Marquesas tour, our guide told us to use specific types of sunscreen to save the reefs and coral.  I applaud any area doing this 🙂 

 

 

 

[Aquahound]

26 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Because of environmental damage, the Keys loose their natural attraction, their economy will suffer.  Maybe, more than the loss of tourist dollars at whatever emporium?  

 

I am from the Keys.  I call Key West my home, but actually it's Cudjoe Key....21 miles up US1.  For years, local bar owners have been pushing for a widening of the main shipping channel to allow larger ships to visit.  Doing this would destroy miles of turtle feeding sea grass beds.  Luckily, this push never comes to fruition.  I am not the least bit surprised that current locals voted to secure the winter season...which is the busiest season...void of large ships.  Although, I don't see what time frame this has.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

Looks like they only want to cater to the elite rich folks in those small luxury ships that we don't have the $$$ for.........I thought they were welcoming to diverse folks?  Sounds elitist to me.....Oh well, no real loss and I hope they enjoy walling of their piece of paradise.  Not welcoming to me.  

I found them to be quite welcoming when I last visited for a few days last year.  Unfortunately for 1 of the days we were there 3 cruise ships were in port.  Even though they were not huge ships the town was extremely crowded. 

 

I would put it more that the locals want some control over the quality of life in their town.