Vaccination Certification?

[sverigecruiser]

27 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/visiting-sweden-during-the-covid-19-pandemic

 

if this is a legitimate website it appears that your borders are closed to tourists outside the EU. I do agree that based on Sweden’s handling of Covid they are the least likely to require a vaccine. But, I wouldn’t hold that expectation of other countries.

 

Thank you for that link. It looks like a legitimate website. It is possible that the requirements are from the European Union and not Sweden. I have not heared about any restrictions recently but know that the border was closed in the spring when probably noone wanted to visit Sweden anyway!

 

Normally there is a very limited border control after the bridge from Danmark to Sweden but maybe the control is stricter now.  

[evandbob]

20 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

Just to be clear. I have no issue with anyone getting the covid-19 vaccination for themself.  However, I have family members that cannot get such vaccinations due to health reasons.  I do have issue with counterfeit test reports and documents.  I don't think my family members should be excluded from cruising.  If the medically able people get the covid-19 vaccine, then my medically unable family members should not pose a danger to others.

Just to be clear, geobugs, you have already lost any credibility due to the absurd posts you've described as "facts".

 

Just like the many folks who said the virus will disappear after the election.  There are so many made up "facts" that some accept without even examining their veracity before shouting them through their bullhorn.  This type of Herd Mentality contributes to the echo chamber they live in, making independent and critical thought a victim of their viral spread.

[Heidi13]

52 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

Just to be clear. I have no issue with anyone getting the covid-19 vaccination for themself.  However, I have family members that cannot get such vaccinations due to health reasons.  I do have issue with counterfeit test reports and documents.  I don't think my family members should be excluded from cruising.  If the medically able people get the covid-19 vaccine, then my medically unable family members should not pose a danger to others.

 

Cruise line requirements for a vaccine may have nothing to do with potential risk to others.

 

If and when countries require everyone to be vaccinated for the ship to receive "Free Pratique", and the ship is visiting at least one of those countries, then the cruise line will have no option. Everyone will require proof of vaccination and must carry a record. If all pax & crew don't meet the requirements, the ship doesn't get entry to the port for trade. No option for non-compliant pax of not going ashore.

 

While your family members may not be prohibited from cruising, not having vaccinations, may restrict the destinations available.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

Just to be clear. I have no issue with anyone getting the covid-19 vaccination for themself.  However, I have family members that cannot get such vaccinations due to health reasons.  I do have issue with counterfeit test reports and documents.  I don't think my family members should be excluded from cruising.  If the medically able people get the covid-19 vaccine, then my medically unable family members should not pose a danger to others.

It would be interesting to hear about the “health reasons” which prevent several people in a family from receiving vaccinations which have not yet been fully tested.

 

In any event, even if your potentially contagious kin could not be a threat to anyone else on a ship who had received immunization, they would be a threat to any others - suffering from the same mysterious condition as your kin- who were also permitted to board without vaccination.

 

Additionally, it is not just the people on the ship - there are lots of people in cruise ports who might not have seen any reason to get vaccinated - and those countries would be within their rights to deny entry to any ship carrying non-immunized people —— which would give the cruise line justification to make vaccination an absolute requirement.

 

The bottom line is that your family members simply might not be able to cruise - not really an unfair hardship to be denied a non-essential recreational activity to protect the health, lives, and recreational rights of many, many other people.

[slidergirl]

I'd be curious what issues the family member has to prohibit vaccination.  In any case, the trials do not just consist of healthy young people.  At least Pfizer went for a wide swatch of people of ages, race, level of health to test.  And, since the Fed says the first people to be able to get the vaccine, beside front line people, will be those most vulnerable.  Surely they are taking in to account as many scenarios as they can. 

 

If you family members, and others, truly cannot get a vaccination, they will have to live with less ability to do non-essential activities where the operators fully have the right to require proof of vaccination to participate.  That's life.  

[capriccio]

56 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Cruise line requirements for a vaccine may have nothing to do with potential risk to others.

 

If and when countries require everyone to be vaccinated for the ship to receive "Free Pratique", and the ship is visiting at least one of those countries, then the cruise line will have no option. Everyone will require proof of vaccination and must carry a record. If all pax & crew don't meet the requirements, the ship doesn't get entry to the port for trade. No option for non-compliant pax of not going ashore.

 

While your family members may not be prohibited from cruising, not having vaccinations, may restrict the destinations available.

 

Excellent post. 

 

Vaccination requirements on certain cruise itineraries have existed for decades (if not longer).  We were required by the Brazilian government (and therefore by the cruise line) to have proof of the yellow fever vaccine (proof being the yellow international shot record with the stamp and notation from our travel clinic) on an Amazon cruise in 2010 because before entering Brazil we had a port stop in Guiana (Devil's Island), a location known to have yellow fever.  Passengers were not allowed to embark on the ship without the vaccination record (and a passport of course).  Brazilian officials boarded the ship at the mouth of the Amazon River to inspect both passports and vaccination records. 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I have posted this elsewhere but it needs to be said here too.  There is a new racket in Europe which is selling counterfeit COVID test reports.  In some places folks have bought counterfeit negative test reports!  That kind of thing does not bode well for the future of vaccinations.

 

Hank

I would go further and say this kind of thing does not bode well for the future of the human race!😢

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

 

Excellent post. 

 

Vaccination requirements on certain cruise itineraries have existed for decades (if not longer).  We were required by the Brazilian government (and therefore by the cruise line) to have proof of the yellow fever vaccine (proof being the yellow international shot record with the stamp and notation from our travel clinic) on an Amazon cruise in 2010 because before entering Brazil we had a port stop in Guiana (Devil's Island), a location known to have yellow fever.  Passengers were not allowed to embark on the ship without the vaccination record (and a passport of course).  Brazilian officials boarded the ship at the mouth of the Amazon River to inspect both passports and vaccination records. 

 

We had similar requirements for our first World Cruise in 2015.

 

When I went to sea back in the 70's we required almost every vaccination available, as we traded world wide. Our vaccinations had to be current upon signing-on the ship, as per our record book.

[MBP&O2/O]

..... and some of them hurt like hell 😂

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

..... and some of them hurt like hell 😂

 

So true, I think some of them were members of the local pub's darts team😁

[navybankerteacher]

56 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

So true, I think some of them were members of the local pub's darts team😁

We had an HM 3 on board who had developed such a reputation that sickbay was overwhelmed by crew catching up with shots when word spread that he was on leave.

[Hlitner]

On 11/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, Geobugs said:

Just to be clear. I have no issue with anyone getting the covid-19 vaccination for themself.  However, I have family members that cannot get such vaccinations due to health reasons.  I do have issue with counterfeit test reports and documents.  I don't think my family members should be excluded from cruising.  If the medically able people get the covid-19 vaccine, then my medically unable family members should not pose a danger to others.

Me thinks that is a ridiculous Statement (that family members cannot get a COVID vaccine).  How on earth would they know before there is even an approved vaccine?  Not all vaccines are created the same way and folks that cannot take some vaccines can take others.  In the case of COVID there are currently 4 vaccine candidates (more if you want to count Russia and China vaccines) nearing the point where they can seek approval.  Two of those (Pfizer and Moderna) use a design manufacturing technique that is somewhat different from most traditional vaccines.  I am not sure about the other two.   Sure, there are some folks who are allergic to certain vaccines and others that must avoid live attenuated vaccines because of their immune systems.  But the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do not rely on this type of manufacturing.   They rely on specific coding of RNA (way beyond my pay grade) and do not actually use any of the COVID virus.  In fact these new type of vaccines can be developed from the DNA/RNA data without the company even having a sample of the virus.  Go figure.   I would suggest waiting to see what vaccine options are available and then seeking professional guidance on whether this would be OK for the person in question.

 

Hank

 

 

[Geobugs]

When my son was born in Michigan, his pediatric doctor referred him to the physician of Muhammad Ali for some testing.  He was diagnosed with vaccination anaphylaxis.  He goes into shock with the administration of a vaccination.  He is allergic to typical numbing agents like Novocaine, Carbocain, Lidocaine, etc.  So he gets his teeth pulled without any pain medications.

[mom says]

Muhamned  Alis doctor? Are you referring to his "fight doctor"? Has your son ever seen an actual specialist in allergies? You mentioned family members (plural). Have other family members been properly tested as well?

Edited November 15, 2020 by mom says

[Geobugs]

My wife has the same, she was tested over 50 years ago.  It is inherited, so that is why my son was tested shortly after birth.   Not his fight doctor, Mr. Ali was diagnosed with his Parkinson’s disease.  He had a neurologist and a personal physician. 

[mom says]

So family members with potentially life threatening allergies have never been tested by an allergy specialist?

[navybankerteacher]

21 minutes ago, mom says said:

So family members with potentially life threatening allergies have never been tested by an allergy specialist?

I think it would be charitable to not pursue this ridiculousness any further.

[mom says]

Yes, NBT, I think you're right.

[evandbob]

15 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I think it would be charitable to not pursue this ridiculousness any further.

I used the IGNORE button long ago.

[SelectSys]

On 11/14/2020 at 9:41 AM, Hlitner said:

...There is a new racket in Europe which is selling counterfeit COVID test reports.  In some places folks have bought counterfeit negative test reports!  That kind of thing does not bode well for the future of vaccinations.

 

Hank

 

Soon it will be the vaccine itself for those wanting a vaccination. 

 

I talked with my significant other about getting an early vaccination in Tijuana and even though we decided against it, the we thought that the only two places we might trust would be Costco and the a nationally known (in Mexico) high end, private hospital chain.

 

On 11/14/2020 at 1:57 PM, ontheweb said:

I would go further and say this kind of thing does not bode well for the future of the human race!😢

 

How so?  Both crime and disease have been with us forever as far as I can tell. 

 

For disease, it could be the stakes are higher as we have seen increased mobility really allows disease to spread fast.  However, it also seems that better technology is helping combat diseases better as all the recent news on vaccines may indicate.

Edited November 17, 2020 by SelectSys

[Hlitner]

46 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

Soon it will be the vaccine itself for those wanting a vaccination. 

 

I talked with my significant other about getting an early vaccination in Tijuana and even though we decided against it, the we thought that the only two places we might trust would be Costco and the a nationally known (in Mexico) high end, private hospital chain.

 

 

How so?  Both crime and disease have been with us forever as far as I can tell. 

 

For disease, it could be the stakes are higher as we have seen increased mobility really allows disease to spread fast.  However, it also seems that better technology is helping combat diseases better as all the recent news on vaccines may indicate.

LOL  You won't get an argument from me since we live in Mexico (Puerto Vallarta) 10 weeks a year and love our time in that country.  Like most expats and knowledgeable gringos we would also avail ourselves of the decent private hospitals (we have several in PV) if in need.  That being said, Mexico has a strange way of handling most vaccines (not sure if this is what will happen with COVID).  Private hospitals and physicians cannot normally access vaccines.  They are often controlled by the government health system and must be accessed at the local public health center.  A few years ago, when DD gave us our first Grandson, we were told that we must have a recent DTap shot (there was a whooping cough epidemic in NYC) before we could visit our DD and new Grandson in the hospital. Since we were still in Mexico we called our medical contacts and asked about getting the cheap and common shot.  But not in Mexico!  They told us that the only place we could get the shot was at our local Public Health Center.  So we went to that facility, waited our turn with the Mexican masses and finally got to see a physician who was very nice and respectful.  She told us that Mexico does not stock adult doses of DTap (they only give it to children).  We waited until we got back to the States and just stopped by the nearest CVS where we got the shot in a few minutes.

 

To be honest, having spent a lifetime working in the government healthcare system, I am not even sure of your point.  Assuming you can get a COVID vaccine in Mexico it will be the same vaccines you would get in the USA (unless you want to try the Russian vaccine).  Since it is now likely that the first two approved vaccines will be Pfizers and Moderna's these might be a big problem in Mexico because both of those need to be stored at cold temperatures (minus 80 and minus 20 respectfully) throughout their shipping and in the pharmacy (until they are thawed for use). Try buying a liter or two of frozen ice cream in Mexico and you will likely find it is soft (and often melted).  In your situation stick to Costco :).

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

...

The only downer was that awful Mexico City airport that we went through a few times.   My understanding is that a replacement is under construction.

 

 

The "replacement" airport is a total waste of money and effort.  None of the airlines want it and most plan on keeping operations at the current airport - unless forced out by government edict.  This is one of AMLO's three main pet projects with the oil refinery in Tabasco and the Tren Maya. 

 

This "replacement" airport is a recycling of the Santa Lucia military base way outside the city and is only accessible from the city via an incredibly busy highway.  My guess is that the trip can be a couple of hours or more if you go at rush hour.  There is talk of a future rail link, but who knows when if ever that will be built.

 

Personally, I don't mind the airport as it is very close to the center of the city.  The old terminal is definitely crowded and behind the times, but I find it serviceable.  If the Toluca rail project ever gets finished, that also would provide a fast alternative into the city from the Toluca airport as well.  The Toluca airport is basically empty with the failure of Interjet due to COVID - and poor management and could easily be put to use.

[iancal]

We will get the vaccination.

 

It would not surprise me if some cruise lines make proof of vaccination mandatory.  Probably the same for entry into some countries.

 

I suspect that if one wants to travel, proof of vaccination, at least for a little while, may be as important as a passport.   Not an issue for us.   

[navybankerteacher]

18 hours ago, iancal said:

We will get the vaccination.

 

It would not surprise me if some cruise lines make proof of vaccination mandatory.  Probably the same for entry into some countries.

 

I suspect that if one wants to travel, proof of vaccination, at least for a little while, may be as important as a passport.   Not an issue for us.   

A reasonable hope.  Even if vaccination is 95% effective, on a 3,000 passenger ship 150 of those vaccinated could be presumed not protected. So, letting one person board who was not vaccinated would put the 150 who at least tried to be responsible at risk.

[iancal]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

A reasonable hope.  Even if vaccination is 95% effective, on a 3,000 passenger ship 150 of those vaccinated could be presumed not protected. So, letting one person board who was not vaccinated would put the 150 who at least tried to be responsible at risk.

Given the financial state of the industry post covid, I cannot imagine any cruise line taking the business risk to allow anyone not vaccinated on board their ships.  It would be a public relations disaster.

Edited November 18, 2020 by iancal