Vaccination Certification?

[Shmoo here]

15 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

 

Depending on the reason for not "accepting" a vaccination, certainly people do things, but they have to jump through other hoops.  That's the reasoning behind "herd immunity" if, indeed, people cannot get a vaccination, others being vaccinated/immune will offer some protection for them.  But that will take time.  

[neverbeenhere]

Since we don’t know what will be in a Covid vaccine it would be impossible to say someone could not be vaccinated.   Of course, some folks can’t have various vaccines, but the inability to get any vaccine just can’t exist. (Okay, maybe with exception of the Boy in the Bubble) 

 

 

cruise when you can. 

[sverigecruiser]

 

Is it as easy as some people think to make vaccinations mandatory? If yes, why aren't more vaccinations mandatory for travelling around the world?

 

I know about yellow fever but can't remember hearing anything about other vaccinations mandatory to go anywhere. Why not if it's easy?

 

I don't say that it can't be done but maybe the process is very complicated and can take a long time.

[klfrodo]

11 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

Nope. Would never "Ban" someone for not taking a vaccination. However, it would be their choice whether to follow the guidelines required to board the ship or not.

 

No Shirt,

No Shoes,

No Vaccination,

No Service

[navybankerteacher]

11 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

It’s not up to me, but if it is determined that being vaccinated is essential for a cruise to take place, it might be necessary for a cruise line to ban them.  Since lack of measles vaccinations are seen as grounds for denying school attendance (which is far more essential than a vacation cruise), such requirement is not unthinkable.

[Charles4515]

12 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

Yes. If they can’t medically accept a vaccination then it is medically unsafe for them to cruise. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Charles4515

[sverigecruiser]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It’s not up to me, but if it is determined that being vaccinated is essential for a cruise to take place, it might be necessary for a cruise line to ban them.  Since lack of measles vaccinations are seen as grounds for denying school attendance (which is far more essential than a vacation cruise), such requirement is not unthinkable.

 

Measels is one of the things I was thinking about. Why isn't that mandatory for travelling?

 

Here a lack of measels vaccination is not grounds for denying school attendance. Different rules/laws around the world may be a problem for cruiselines and airlines which want to have mandatory vaccinations.   

[njhorseman]

9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It’s not up to me, but if it is determined that being vaccinated is essential for a cruise to take place, it might be necessary for a cruise line to ban them.  Since lack of measles vaccinations are seen as grounds for denying school attendance (which is far more essential than a vacation cruise), such requirement is not unthinkable.

All states have exemptions for medical reasons to their vaccination requirements for school attendance, so the analogy to school vaccination requirements is invalid as the poster specifically was addressing medical reasons. Some states even have exemptions for religious and philosophical reasons.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exemption-state-laws.aspx

 

"All 50 states have legislation requiring specified vaccines for students. Although exemptions vary from state to state, all school immunization laws grant exemptions to children for medical reasons. There are 45 states and Washington D.C. that grant religious exemptions for people who have religious objections to immunizations. Currently, 15 states allow philosophical exemptions for those who object to immunizations because of personal, moral or other beliefs."

 

 

[Heidi13]

21 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

When I first went to sea in 19 er err errrr ... having this book was mandatory. Having said that in those days doctors didn’t charge to endorse it, and if they did you could claim expenses 😁

We needed everything as you never knew where you would end up!

 

Since I went to sea about the same time, I can confirm that the vaccination book was mandatory, if you travelled internationally. Didn't leave home without the Discharge Book, Vaccination Record Book, Seaman's Card and Passport.

 

Can't remember which one, but one of the shots we had to get was every 6 months. When I did 9 months on Wild Auk, they had to send us ashore for a booster.

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Is it as easy as some people think to make vaccinations mandatory? If yes, why aren't more vaccinations mandatory for travelling around the world?

 

I know about yellow fever but can't remember hearing anything about other vaccinations mandatory to go anywhere. Why not if it's easy?

 

I don't say that it can't be done but maybe the process is very complicated and can take a long time.

The fact that it was done (and not just in the case of yellow fever - smallpox vaccination as well, I believe, as others were required for certain travel) means that it can be done —- and perhaps in the matter of COVID (depending upon the efficacy of vaccines) this might be the time to spend the time.

[VMax1700]

12 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

I would not be cruising with any cruise company that does not make vaccinations mandatory for boarding.  

I believe that cruise companies, at least for the next few years, will insist that proof of vaccination is produced at embarkation.  Therefore, they will ban themselves.

[Roger88]

10 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

I would not be cruising with any cruise company that does not make vaccinations mandatory for boarding.  

I believe that cruise companies, at least for the next few years, will insist that proof of vaccination is produced at embarkation.  Therefore, they will ban themselves.

I am afraid in this case you will never cruise in your life. There are plenty of people who dont vaccinate (me included). Especially vaccinating yourself with something that has not yet undergone any proper testing. 

[iancal]

We have traveled to a number of countries that have a vaccination requirement for entry.  Like many others we carry the booklet of vaccinations with our passports.

 

I cannot recall being asked for it on entry.  This caused me to inquire about the requirement.  I was told that some of those countries that do require vaccinations such as yellow fever enforce it on an irregular basis depending on outbreaks in their country.

 

We have no trouble carrying or maintaining the book.  It lists everything...hep, tet, etc. Had them for years ever since DW first entered the health care environment.

[Geobugs]

44 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Since lack of measles vaccinations are seen as grounds for denying school attendance (which is far more essential than a vacation cruise), such requirement is not unthinkable.

 

36 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Yes. If they can’t medically accept a vaccination then it is medically unsafe for them to cruise. 

 

Not having a vaccination does not make a person medically unsafe to cruise.  Lack of measles vaccinations does not deny school attendance.  Both of these statements are false and is prejudicial.

 

My son has traveled to 35 countries on five continents including China, Thailand, Columbia, Peru, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.  None of the countries he has visited has required any type of vaccine.  Medically, he cannot have vaccinations, anesthetic, etc.   No MMR, no Polo, no Tetanus, etc.  How is he unsafe to you? 

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

 

Wouldn't be us or even technically the cruise lines. However, I can envisage a return to the days where our vaccination books were reviewed when the ship requested Practique. If everyone didn't have the required vaccinations, Practique wasn't granted and the ship couldn't enter the port for trade.

 

So, yes, I can envisage countries that will require proof of vaccination and cruise lines will need to check records upon boarding.

 

Even pre-COVID, cruise line T&C had the ability to deny boarding if vaccination requirements were not met.

 

When I went to sea, if we couldn't get vaccinated then we needed to change careers.

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

59 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

All states have exemptions for medical reasons to their vaccination requirements for school attendance, so the analogy to school vaccination requirements is invalid as the poster specifically was addressing medical reasons. Some states even have exemptions for religious and philosophical reasons.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exemption-state-laws.aspx

 

"All 50 states have legislation requiring specified vaccines for students. Although exemptions vary from state to state, all school immunization laws grant exemptions to children for medical reasons. There are 45 states and Washington D.C. that grant religious exemptions for people who have religious objections to immunizations. Currently, 15 states allow philosophical exemptions for those who object to immunizations because of personal, moral or other beliefs."

 

 

All well and good - but there is a difference between granting exceptions in actiovities like education where vital participation is in question and in lowering the bar for recreational cruising.  

 

While it might be argued that vaccinated people on a cruise ship would not be put at risk, ports of call might very well see things differently in deciding whether to allow ships in.

[Charles4515]

30 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

 

 

My son has traveled to 35 countries on five continents including China, Thailand, Columbia, Peru, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.  None of the countries he has visited has required any type of vaccine.  Medically, he cannot have vaccinations, anesthetic, etc.   No MMR, no Polo, no Tetanus, etc.  How is he unsafe to you? 

 

If he can't have vaccines he likely has some underlying condition causing that. Getting Covid can't be safe for him if he does or does not get vaccinated.

 

He could be infected and spread Covid to me and other passengers. He could also spread Covid to other countries. 

 

This thread is all speculative. Other countries could require vaccinations. They may or may not allow exceptions. The CDC could require vaccinations for international travel. If they did they might allow exceptions or not. Royal Caribbean could require vaccinations but I suspect it would only be pass thru because of government mandates either our own or other governments. Likely they would require their crew to get vaccinated. 

 

Personally if I have taken a very effective vaccination my decision would likely be to cruise regardless of the other passengers vaccination status. In that regard I probably won't cruise until there is a vaccine and effective therapeutics. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Charles4515

[njhorseman]

9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

All well and good - but there is a difference between granting exceptions in actiovities like education where vital participation is in question and in lowering the bar for recreational cruising.  

 

While it might be argued that vaccinated people on a cruise ship would not be put at risk, ports of call might very well see things differently in deciding whether to allow ships in.

I agree that a recreational activity like cruising is in a different ballpark than compulsory education.

[donaldsc]

13 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?

 

Quite bluntly, if their medical issues have a major impact on the health of the population as a whole, the answer is yes.  Look up the history of Typhoid Mary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon.  She refused to stop working as a maid when she knew that she was a typhoid carrier so they locker her up for the rest of her life to protect innocent families from her.

 

DON

[lobsternight]

Heated debate, so for the first time ever here is my troll:

 

I'm sure if you go on Ebay you will be able to get fake vaccination certificates, probably from the same guy that sells mock service dog vests.

 

Disclaimer: I do belive service dogs are valuable and needed for those with legitimate conditions, just as i belive in medical exemptions for vaccination if diagnosed by a real medical doctor.  

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, Roger88 said:

I am afraid in this case you will never cruise in your life. There are plenty of people who dont vaccinate (me included). Especially vaccinating yourself with something that has not yet undergone any proper testing. 

It is more likely that the people who “will never cruise” will be the ones “who don’t vaccinate” , rather than the ones who will only cruise if vaccination is required.   Not only may cruise lines require it, the countries from which they sail and the ports which they visit might require it.

 

The right to refuse vaccination, while accepted in many contexts, is not necessarily going to be seen as inviolate when it comes to a purely voluntary recreational activity like cruising - where one refuser can screw things up for a lot of people.

[sanger727]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Either not that many years or not very wide travel.  

 

I’m sure someone who’s international travel involved going back and forth from Buffalo, NY to Toronto, Ont. never needed it either.

 

18 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Well, Ms. Smartypants, if you had travelled much before 1984, or to many countries outside of Europe, you WOULD have been aware of the yellow vaccinations record.

Huh? When’s the last time you had to present one of these? A. I don’t have one so wouldn’t have one to present, B. I’ve been to Europe, Australia, Asia, and Africa. Never been asked for anything like this. I did get vaccinations for some of those trips but they were for my protection so no one cared to ask for proof that I got them.

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Huh? When’s the last time you had to present one of these?

 

Not since the 1970’s certainly - but the fact that you never heard of it only shows the limits of your experience, not its non-existence.  In any event, there is a new environment now which can reasonably seen as possibly bringing such precautionary practices back.

[sanger727]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

 

Not since the 1970’s certainly - but the fact that you never heard of it only shows the limits of your experience, not its non-existence.  In any event, there is a new environment now which can reasonably seen as possibly bringing such precautionary practices back.

well, it shows that I wasn’t alive in the 70s. And why exactly would anyone try to revive such an old fashioned thing when many travelers don’t even have one when there are much better and more secure digital records these days?

[Geobugs]

Naturally acquired immunity, immunity from having the disease itself, is better than the immunity provided by vaccines, according to many medical journals.