If cruise line only "recommends" vaccination and doesn't "require" it, will you cruise?

[bigrednole]

22 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Not going to happen. Well cruise lines requiring proof of vaccination may happen, but not the rest.

 

As Adam Schiff once said to Jack McCoy on an episode of Law & Order, "there's that pesky thing, the Constitution". 
 

The Constitution has no bearing on what the CDC will require. If the CDC says it will only allow ports open to vaccinated people, guess what? You don't get in without being vaccinated. 

 

What you fail and so many Liberals do, you have the right to your opinion and choices but not the right to avoid the consequences.

[bigrednole]

22 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That might happen in North Korea but probably in very few other places, I hope!

It is like I said, Covid-19 is AS BAD as the government and media portrayed it to be or you have been lied to in the largest worldwide control that has ever happened. There is no middle ground. I know Covid is real, I am not denying that. What I do deny is how bad it really is. Yes, some people have died from it. Others have gotten very sick from it. But the majority, over 99%, have almost no effects. You can throw out any statistic you want from any site you find, even our own governments, but anyone that understands data, garbage in = garbage out. What that means is almost all of the early data and data up through probably September or October is garbage. Look at the facts and follow the money. Hospitals were given blank check billing for Covid cases. Amounts they could never come close to charging. But label it covid and you are looking at 10x the bill rates. There is email proof from the president of one of the largest hospital chains telling doctors to label any case Covid even without testing. The government said they can and no test was even required. 

 

This is not a conspiracy. Covid is real. Following the money is real. The control the government put on business and the population is real. They now have a blueprint on how to do this worldwide. History repeats itself and expect a similar "something" in 4-5 years.

[ontheweb]

21 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The Constitution has no bearing on what the CDC will require. If the CDC says it will only allow ports open to vaccinated people, guess what? You don't get in without being vaccinated. 

 

What you fail and so many Liberals do, you have the right to your opinion and choices but not the right to avoid the consequences.

You totally misunderstood my post that you quoted by in fact quoting only part of it. I had no problem with the cruise lines or the CDC requiring vaccinations. I SAID THE REST WAS NOT HAPPENNING. I was quoting a poster who advocated among other things no vaccination meant no drivers license, no FDIC on your bank accounts, and no social security payment.

 

And name calling serves no purpose to informed debate.

[sverigecruiser]

34 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

It is like I said, Covid-19 is AS BAD as the government and media portrayed it to be or you have been lied to in the largest worldwide control that has ever happened. There is no middle ground. I know Covid is real, I am not denying that. What I do deny is how bad it really is. Yes, some people have died from it. Others have gotten very sick from it. But the majority, over 99%, have almost no effects. You can throw out any statistic you want from any site you find, even our own governments, but anyone that understands data, garbage in = garbage out. What that means is almost all of the early data and data up through probably September or October is garbage. Look at the facts and follow the money. Hospitals were given blank check billing for Covid cases. Amounts they could never come close to charging. But label it covid and you are looking at 10x the bill rates. There is email proof from the president of one of the largest hospital chains telling doctors to label any case Covid even without testing. The government said they can and no test was even required. 

 

This is not a conspiracy. Covid is real. Following the money is real. The control the government put on business and the population is real. They now have a blueprint on how to do this worldwide. History repeats itself and expect a similar "something" in 4-5 years.

 

Can you explain how this is at all related to the quote you used? I really don't understand it.

 

Do you really have any indications that your government will control thoose who don't take the vaccine the way you said? For me it sounds ridiculous but of course you might know something I don't know.

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, bigrednole said:

It is like I said, Covid-19 is AS BAD as the government and media portrayed it to be or you have been lied to in the largest worldwide control that has ever happened. There is no middle ground. I know Covid is real, I am not denying that. What I do deny is how bad it really is. Yes, some people have died from it. Others have gotten very sick from it. But the majority, over 99%, have almost no effects. You can throw out any statistic you want from any site you find, even our own governments, but anyone that understands data, garbage in = garbage out. What that means is almost all of the early data and data up through probably September or October is garbage. Look at the facts and follow the money. Hospitals were given blank check billing for Covid cases. Amounts they could never come close to charging. But label it covid and you are looking at 10x the bill rates. There is email proof from the president of one of the largest hospital chains telling doctors to label any case Covid even without testing. The government said they can and no test was even required. 

 

This is not a conspiracy. Covid is real. Following the money is real. The control the government put on business and the population is real. They now have a blueprint on how to do this worldwide. History repeats itself and expect a similar "something" in 4-5 years.

 

 

Okay, this is why people in outside of the States wonder why so many Americans buy into conspiracy theories? Yes Covid is real but health professionals are not labelling people Covid to boost their bank account. This myth has been debunked in multiple places and is insulting to hard working health care workers.

 

As a nurse who knows what it is like to deal with severe infections like H1N1 and SARS this COVID infection is mind-blowing.

 

As an Australian I look at what hospital professionals in places like the USA are dealing with and I am very concerned for how they are coping mentally as well as physically. I remember working long term in a highly intense area and eventually nightmares were a regular occurrence for awhile.

 

This last surge has been going on for so long and with the current holiday season coming up I worry that these hospital professionals will be even more exhausted.

[sanger727]

18 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Most people don't get COVID, and only a small percent of THEM get symptoms.  So the 'most people don't get side effects' argument isn't as strong as you think.  

 

This is false

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/20-percent-of-people-with-covid-19-are-asymptomatic-but-can-spread-the-disease

 

More like 80% of people with covid get symptoms. And this reflects what I have seen. In my workplace we have had units/offices that were so overwhelmed with covid that they had everyone get a test. A handful of people did not have symptoms, but a vast majority did. And of those, close to half were still sick 2 weeks later. Even if you have a mild case, it can still cause you to be quite sick for quite a long time. 

[ilikeanswers]

49 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

As an Australian I look at what hospital professionals in places like the USA are dealing with and I am very concerned for how they are coping mentally as well as physically. I remember working long term in a highly intense area and eventually nightmares were a regular occurrence for awhile.

 

This last surge has been going on for so long and with the current holiday season coming up I worry that these hospital professionals will be even more exhausted.

 

This article about the experiences of doctors and nurses in Marseilles France makes you feel for all the medical professionals around the world. For people to claim Covid-19 is some money making scam shame on them😔:

A lifetime of pain in 24 hours: A French ICU in the pandemic

[sparks1093]

19 hours ago, clo said:

Well then, why don't you start one? I was asking people's opinions.

You were, and it seems that there is a lot of debate when there doesn't need to be. If you are not comfortable cruising if a cruise line only recommends a vaccine then you don't cruise and good for you. If you are comfortable cruising under the same circumstances then you do cruise and good for you. What one person does or doesn't do doesn't affect anyone else (remembering of course that the question was would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended a vaccine, not would you get a vaccine before cruising again).

[ontheweb]

14 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

You were, and it seems that there is a lot of debate when there doesn't need to be. If you are not comfortable cruising if a cruise line only recommends a vaccine then you don't cruise and good for you. If you are comfortable cruising under the same circumstances then you do cruise and good for you. What one person does or doesn't do doesn't affect anyone else (remembering of course that the question was would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended a vaccine, not would you get a vaccine before cruising again).

And the whole question could become moot if cruise lines require vaccinations either by choice or are forced to do so by the ports they travel to.

[sparks1093]

29 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And the whole question could become moot if cruise lines require vaccinations either by choice or are forced to do so by the ports they travel to.

Yes, it could.

[fideauxdon]

No; and since I'm 84 and my Spouse is 80, there's an excellent chance that 2021 will be "Now or Never" for our cruise continuation.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

...What one person does or doesn't do doesn't affect anyone else (remembering of course that the question was would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended a vaccine, not would you get a vaccine before cruising again).

When it come to getting a vaccine - or sailing without precautions -"...What one person does or doesn't do ..." sure as hell does affect EVERYONE else.    The surge in infections following all the unthinking Thanksgiving travel  affects us all.   In southern California, the hospitals are now overwhelmed - jeopardizing everyone who might need intensive care - Covid- related or not.

 

Recalling the grounding of all aircraft after the 9/11 attacks, we might just be in a situation calling for very strict limitation on all traffic - possibly restricting all but essential traffic. 

 

I hope that no one really thinks that the presently contemplated Christmas travel is not going to result in  another surge. 

[2wheelin]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

When it come to getting a vaccine - or sailing without precautions -"...What one person does or doesn't do ..." sure as hell does affect EVERYONE else.    The surge in infections following all the unthinking Thanksgiving travel  affects us all.   In southern California, the hospitals are now overwhelmed - jeopardizing everyone who might need intensive care - Covid- related or not.

 

Recalling the grounding of all aircraft after the 9/11 attacks, we might just be in a situation calling for very strict limitation on all traffic - possibly restricting all but essential traffic. 

 

I hope that no one really thinks that the presently contemplated Christmas travel is not going to result in  another surge. 

The topic here is whether you would cruise or not based on requirements. If following those requirements, then your choice sure as ...... does not affect anyone else. Stick to the topic.

The surge started well before Thanksgiving gatherings and is slightly waning now.

[clo]

4 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

and is slightly waning now.

Some of the hospitals ICUs in the SF Bay Area have 1% availability. The area from Sacramento to the NV state line is basically closed now til the first of the year. No hotels or any other kind of accommodation rentals. No indoor or outside dining. Bars, etc. closed. Retail stores at 20% capacity. 

[getting older slowly]

I thought' ''this""  would have been a yes or no answer......

 

looks like not.....

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

When it come to getting a vaccine - or sailing without precautions -"...What one person does or doesn't do ..." sure as hell does affect EVERYONE else.    The surge in infections following all the unthinking Thanksgiving travel  affects us all.   In southern California, the hospitals are now overwhelmed - jeopardizing everyone who might need intensive care - Covid- related or not.

 

Recalling the grounding of all aircraft after the 9/11 attacks, we might just be in a situation calling for very strict limitation on all traffic - possibly restricting all but essential traffic. 

 

I hope that no one really thinks that the presently contemplated Christmas travel is not going to result in  another surge. 

The question wasn't sailing without a vaccine or sailing without precautions, that reads too much into it. The simple question was if the cruise line only recommends a vaccine and not require one would you still cruise with them and the answer for each individual was a simple yes or no. If you decide to cruise under those circumstances and I do not how does your decision affect me? How does mine affect you? Now if you decide to cruise without a vaccine that could have an impact on others, but that was outside the question.

[2wheelin]

13 hours ago, clo said:

Some of the hospitals ICUs in the SF Bay Area have 1% availability. The area from Sacramento to the NV state line is basically closed now til the first of the year. No hotels or any other kind of accommodation rentals. No indoor or outside dining. Bars, etc. closed. Retail stores at 20% capacity. 

Our Midwest state had closed all dining, bars, gyms and many other things well before Thanksgiving. Gyms may open this week if you maintain 12 ft distance and wear a mask during workout but mine at the medical center has not been open since last March and has no plans to open at all in the near future. They have been applying the research they are doing in surgery regarding spread. Breweries have asked for and been granted outdoor gatherings in the snow with severe limits. Stores limit customers and hours. Holiday gatherings are limited to two households or 10 people, whichever comes first. Schools may reopen mid Jan for the lowest grades if they have proper plans. Some schools have been open on trial basis.

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Our Midwest state had closed all dining, bars, gyms and many other things well before Thanksgiving. Gyms may open this week if you maintain 12 ft distance and wear a mask during workout but mine at the medical center has not been open since last March and has no plans to open at all in the near future. They have been applying the research they are doing in surgery regarding spread. Breweries have asked for and been granted outdoor gatherings in the snow with severe limits. Stores limit customers and hours. Holiday gatherings are limited to two households or 10 people, whichever comes first. Schools may reopen mid Jan for the lowest grades if they have proper plans. Some schools have been open on trial basis.

 

Yeah, that's what we were doing pre-Thanksgiving.

[cruisemom42]

15 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

The surge started well before Thanksgiving gatherings and is slightly waning now.

 

I don't know -- it looks pretty grim to me.

 

Using data from as recent as 2-3 days ago, there are 43 states where the death toll has risen in the last two weeks.

 

A weekly tracking graph by Reuters updated on December 14 reports that there were 1.6 million new COVID-19 cases this past week as well as more than 17,000 deaths. The case numbers were 15 percent higher than the previous week. Deaths were 12 percent higher.

 

We are very disappointed that we don't feel safe traveling to the next state to get together with family members for the holidays. I haven't seen my elderly parents in a year....

 

[navybankerteacher]

16 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

..

The surge started well before Thanksgiving gatherings and is slightly waning now.

No - it is not waning now. 

 

Infections, hospitalizations, and deaths are on the rise in the majority of states.  Hard to prove definitively, but logically the result of Thanksgiving travel - which is highly likely to be repeated over Christmas.

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

No - it is not waning now. 

 

Infections, hospitalizations, and deaths are on the rise in the majority of states.  Hard to prove definitively, but logically the result of Thanksgiving travel - which is highly likely to be repeated over Christmas.

Our state dept of health reports: Weekly rate of positive tests approx 12% early Nov, this week 7-8% (over 300Ktests); New cases peaked week of 11/8-11/14, decreasing since; New hospitalization peak 11/15-11/21, decreasing since; New ICU admissions peaked 11/22-11/28, decreasing since; Deaths peaked 11/29-12/5, decrease since.

I did not say the pandemic is over and our state is not relaxing the rules just yet but these numbers do not support your theory—in our state. Blanket statements are dangerous. I am not taking the time to review each states statistics at this time but I highly doubt my state is that unique, even though we are doing slightly better than the immediately surrounding states. Enough negativity.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

our state is not relaxing the rules just yet but these numbers do not support your theory—in our state. Blanket statements are dangerous. I am not taking the time to review each states statistics at this time but I highly doubt my state is that unique, even though we are doing slightly better than the immediately surrounding states.

 

But as I posted just a few above, that is not the picture for the US overall. At least 3 days out of the last week we had record numbers of deaths in the US overall -- each outdoing the preceding one.

 

It's fine if your area is doing better, but for 4/5 of the country at least, that is not the case....

 

[clo]

3 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Blanket statements are dangerous.

Too lazy to go back and search but I thought I recollected that you said that cases were waning. I don't remember your qualifying it to your state. Now you have. Thanks. For those of us who live where it continues to surge we wish you luck.

[broberts]

7 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Our state dept of health reports: Weekly rate of positive tests approx 12% early Nov, this week 7-8% (over 300Ktests); New cases peaked week of 11/8-11/14, decreasing since; New hospitalization peak 11/15-11/21, decreasing since; New ICU admissions peaked 11/22-11/28, decreasing since; Deaths peaked 11/29-12/5, decrease since.

I did not say the pandemic is over and our state is not relaxing the rules just yet but these numbers do not support your theory—in our state. Blanket statements are dangerous. I am not taking the time to review each states statistics at this time but I highly doubt my state is that unique, even though we are doing slightly better than the immediately surrounding states. Enough negativity.

 

What state? 

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

What state? 

I am also curious to know that.