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Apparently Norwegian will require ALL to be vaccinated.   No exceptions.  Presently there are no guidelines for vaccinations for children or for people who have had Covid.   Do you think Carnival will follow?  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruiseradio.net/first-cruise-line-officially-require-vaccines-will-others-follow/amp/

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Norwegian has NOT mandated vaccines, but is looking into it.  Saga Cruises in the UK has mandated them.

 

I very much think this decision will be based on the 'realities of the day' at the time significant cruising resumes.  For example, if countries essentially require them for port visits cruise lines will have no option.

 

Without unnecessarily opening a can of worms, if mandatory vaccines are how we get past the pandemic then I'm all for it.  I'll consider it unacceptable if a year or two from now the world hasn't returned to 'normal' simply because folks refuse to get vaccinated.  At some point, the purposefully unprotected must proceed at their own risk and not anticipate that others will make concessions for them.  Of course we're a long ways from that today so we all must continue to do our part.   

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41 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Norwegian has NOT mandated vaccines, but is looking into it.  Saga Cruises in the UK has mandated them.

 

I very much think this decision will be based on the 'realities of the day' at the time significant cruising resumes.  For example, if countries essentially require them for port visits cruise lines will have no option.

 

Without unnecessarily opening a can of worms, if mandatory vaccines are how we get past the pandemic then I'm all for it.  I'll consider it unacceptable if a year or two from now the world hasn't returned to 'normal' simply because folks refuse to get vaccinated.  At some point, the purposefully unprotected must proceed at their own risk and not anticipate that others will make concessions for them.  Of course we're a long ways from that today so we all must continue to do our part.   

Isn't this what the purposefully unprotected people want to happen now.  Open up everything, wear a mask if you want, get a vaccine if you want.  

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My husband and I are waiting our turns for vaccinations.  We just want to travel again.  I haven't been on a plane since last March.  We have chosen not to visit older relatives who live across the country until everyone is vaccinated.  Since vaccinations are something we will do anyway, we are fine if cruise ships and ports require them.  
I have family members with young children and they understand that cruises this year might come with requirements that will not allow them to cruise. I also have family members who are choosing not to get the vaccine and I respect their decisions.  They understand it might temporarily limit their travel.

Anyway, I would prefer vaccine requirements this year to just testing people since testing by itself hasn't worked out so well.

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3 hours ago, joeyancho said:

Apparently Norwegian will require ALL to be vaccinated.   No exceptions.  Presently there are no guidelines for vaccinations for children or for people who have had Covid.   Do you think Carnival will follow?  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruiseradio.net/first-cruise-line-officially-require-vaccines-will-others-follow/amp/

From the article you linked: "But it is British-based Saga Cruises which has become the first line to officially make vaccination a pre-sailing requirement."

 

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Papers, please.

 

50 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Since vaccinations are something we will do anyway, we are fine if cruise ships and ports require them. 

Anyway, I would prefer vaccine requirements this year to just testing people since testing by itself hasn't worked out so well.

 

With all due respect, it's easy for someone to agree with mandated vaccines for cruises when they already want to get the vaccine. Even if I wanted to get it, I'd never dream of insisting that it be forced on others. I'm not saying you've insisted that, but others have. Too many people are reacting with raw emotion based on the words of people who have corrupted medicine with politics.

 

Most tests, especially the PCR & rapid tests, are riddled with false positives. The PCR tests are designed in such a way that they are a simple negative or positive. However, there are some with such a low viral load that they are not medically considered infected, and therefore aren't contagious. But the PCR test still says positive because of how many times they amplify the sample. That's my primary concern if they use testing as a method to deny boarding or to quarantine someone while underway. If anyone in either of those situations gets a false positive, their cruise is ruined for no good reason. They need to test more than once to be sure.

 

From a pure business standpoint, I don't see Carnival mandating vaccines.

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7 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

From a pure business standpoint, I don't see Carnival mandating vaccines.

 

Agreed.  Carnival's bread and butter demographic is families.  Individuals under 16 are currently ineligible to be vaccinated, so a vaccine mandate by Carnival will have them intentionally alienating their main clientele.  Not offering up any opinion as to whether mandating is good or bad (I'm on the vaccine list waiting for one), just stating that it is unlikely to be a Carnival mandate.

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We have rescheduled our cruise again, this time from this September to next.  We still can't even cross the border into the U.S. and live just five minutes away.  I expect DH and I will be in line to be vaccinated probably around April or May.  I really don't have a problem having a vaccine mandate.  It certainly could make the whole cruising experience more enjoyable knowing everyone around you has also been vaccinated.  To me cruising is a privilege, not a right and as such I don't feel that I have the right to cruise if I am not prepared to do everything possible to keep everyone on board safe.  Just my thoughts on the matter, I know many will disagree.  Here is hoping we can all cruise again soon.   Stay safe everyone.

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10 minutes ago, sarmat1 said:

 

Agreed.  Carnival's bread and butter demographic is families.  Individuals under 16 are currently ineligible to be vaccinated, so a vaccine mandate by Carnival will have them intentionally alienating their main clientele.  Not offering up any opinion as to whether mandating is good or bad (I'm on the vaccine list waiting for one), just stating that it is unlikely to be a Carnival mandate.

By the time cruising restarts, I think all the excuses will be mitigated.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

Papers, please.

 

 

With all due respect, it's easy for someone to agree with mandated vaccines for cruises when they already want to get the vaccine. Even if I wanted to get it, I'd never dream of insisting that it be forced on others.

Nobody is forcing them to cruise though. The issues you mentioned with accuracy of tests is the exact reason why a mandatory vaccine policy makes sense. I'm assuming they would just leave kids exempt given their extremely low risk of serious problems.

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I cruised the PANORAMA a couple of weeks before shutdown, had another cruise in October cancelled on her, took the refund forfeiting the $600 OBC and then recently booked the PANORAMA for Nov2021. I frequently take my ex wife with me on cruises, but my ex has said she's not going to get vaccinated (thinks there is some plot to alter our DNA, which the vaccine does, incidentally). I point out the Saulk, measles, Rubella vaccines, but seemingly no avail. It's idiotic, IMHO, I'm 81 and she's 70, but won't budge. My question is, will Carnival allow me to cancel her because she doesn't want to take the vaccine without penalizing me ?  

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39 minutes ago, glrounds said:

I cruised the PANORAMA a couple of weeks before shutdown, had another cruise in October cancelled on her, took the refund forfeiting the $600 OBC and then recently booked the PANORAMA for Nov2021. I frequently take my ex wife with me on cruises, but my ex has said she's not going to get vaccinated (thinks there is some plot to alter our DNA, which the vaccine does, incidentally). I point out the Saulk, measles, Rubella vaccines, but seemingly no avail. It's idiotic, IMHO, I'm 81 and she's 70, but won't budge. My question is, will Carnival allow me to cancel her because she doesn't want to take the vaccine without penalizing me ?  


This is just my opinion, but I think Carnival will allow cancellations without penalty if they require people to have the vaccine before traveling and the cruise was booked before that requirement.

The vaccination issue might not be completely up to Carnival.  The ports may require people arriving on cruise ships to be vaccinated.

Edited by TNcruising02
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1 hour ago, Jamesatgsu said:

Nobody is forcing them to cruise though.

 

This is exactly correct.  I'm not in any way suggesting that getting the vaccine should be mandated for all citizens. 

 

What I am saying is twofold: 1) a private business has every right to insist on it as a threshold requirement in a 'No shoes, no shirt, no vaccine, no service' kind of way and, 2) at some point those who CHOOSE not to be vaccinated must be prepared to proceed through life at their own risk.  That means folks go back to the office, capacity restrictions are lifted, and life returns to normal.  At that point I should have no obligation to take extraordinary steps to protect others besides the typical common courtesy of staying home when ill, covering my mouth if I sneeze or cough, etc. 

 

Of course we are still many months from that so we all should do what we can to minimize the spread today.  That means continuing sacrifice for the benefit of all.  Note that I am not advocating for any particular mediation technique as 'best'.  I'll leave the 'California solution' v. the 'Florida solution' to be empirically studied and debated by others.    

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"Lawyers are looking at it as we speak,” the CEO of Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings told Travel Weekly recently of a possible COVID-19 vaccine requirement for passengers. “It will certainly be a requirement for the crew."

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I can see vaccine mandates happening at first. After the optics of some of the last cruises having COVID breakouts and deaths, the last thing Carnival wants (or any line for that matter) is another instance of deaths and long, highly publicized quarantines at the port. 

 

That said, once the pandemic quiets down, I don't see the vaccine mandates remaining. 

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3 hours ago, sarmat1 said:

 

Agreed.  Carnival's bread and butter demographic is families.  Individuals under 16 are currently ineligible to be vaccinated, so a vaccine mandate by Carnival will have them intentionally alienating their main clientele.  Not offering up any opinion as to whether mandating is good or bad (I'm on the vaccine list waiting for one), just stating that it is unlikely to be a Carnival mandate.

 

This definitely would impact me. I'm really hoping a vaccine for kids is approved in the next month or two. I don't see a return to normal cruising (or school for that matter) until everyone who wants to protect themselves can do so with a vaccine. Then the masks can come off and things can return more towards normalcy. Carnival may just wait until vaccines are widely available to everyone and dodge the issue entirely. Those that want the vaccine will get it, those that don't, won't. I expect we'll see a liability protection umbrella once vaccines are plentiful. There will be no need to mandate at that point (individuals will be free to decide and also accept risks) and things will naturally work themselves out.        

Edited by cruisingguy007
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22 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

I can see vaccine mandates happening at first. After the optics of some of the last cruises having COVID breakouts and deaths, the last thing Carnival wants (or any line for that matter) is another instance of deaths and long, highly publicized quarantines at the port. 

 

That said, once the pandemic quiets down, I don't see the vaccine mandates remaining. 

 

The problem with mandating something lies in the responsibility aspect of enforcing and/or guaranteeing a standard. It's much more difficult to undue these burdens than to simply avoid them to begin with (from a legal/liability standpoint). Ambiguity helps with plausible deniability. As the saying goes, sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. Bureaucracy and oversight are often hard to walk back. It usually multiplies, rather than subtracts. As we all see in life/government, you generally don't get more rights/freedom, only less. It's much the same in business (with regard to regulations/oversight). 

Edited by cruisingguy007
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6 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 As we all see in life/government, you generally don't get more rights/freedom, only less. 

 

Not sure about required cruise line vaccinations, but speaking of government, there's a new Executive Order for mandatory masks that might include cruise ships if they are classified under "public maritime vessels":

 

Sec. 2.  Immediate Action to Require Mask-Wearing on Certain Domestic Modes of Transportation.

(a)  Mask Requirement.  The Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), the Secretary of Transportation (including through the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)), the Secretary of Homeland Security (including through the Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and the Commandant of the United States Coast Guard), and the heads of any other executive departments and agencies (agencies) that have relevant regulatory authority (heads of agencies) shall immediately take action, to the extent appropriate and consistent with applicable law, to require masks to be worn in compliance with CDC guidelines in or on: 

(i)    airports; 

(ii)   commercial aircraft; 

(iii)  trains; 

(iv)   public maritime vessels, including ferries; 

(v)    intercity bus services; and

(vi)   all forms of public transportation as defined in section 5302 of title 49, United States Code.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/21/executive-order-promoting-covid-19-safety-in-domestic-and-international-travel/

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1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

This definitely would impact me. I'm really hoping a vaccine for kids is approved in the next month or two. I don't see a return to normal cruising (or school for that matter) until everyone who wants to protect themselves can do so with a vaccine. Then the masks can come off and things can return more towards normalcy. Carnival may just wait until vaccines are widely available to everyone and dodge the issue entirely. Those that want the vaccine will get it, those that don't, won't. I expect we'll see a liability protection umbrella once vaccines are plentiful. There will be no need to mandate at that point (individuals will be free to decide and also accept risks) and things will naturally work themselves out.        

Ok I'll bite, what makes you think there will be a vaccine for kids when it's already been said it will take until summer before there are enough doses for adults?

 

We have a long road ahead.

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21 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

Not sure about required cruise line vaccinations, but speaking of government, there's a new Executive Order for mandatory masks that might include cruise ships if they are classified under "public maritime vessels":

 

Sec. 2.  Immediate Action to Require Mask-Wearing on Certain Domestic Modes of Transportation.

(a)  Mask Requirement.  The Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), the Secretary of Transportation (including through the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)), the Secretary of Homeland Security (including through the Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and the Commandant of the United States Coast Guard), and the heads of any other executive departments and agencies (agencies) that have relevant regulatory authority (heads of agencies) shall immediately take action, to the extent appropriate and consistent with applicable law, to require masks to be worn in compliance with CDC guidelines in or on: 

(i)    airports; 

(ii)   commercial aircraft; 

(iii)  trains; 

(iv)   public maritime vessels, including ferries; 

(v)    intercity bus services; and

(vi)   all forms of public transportation as defined in section 5302 of title 49, United States Code.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/21/executive-order-promoting-covid-19-safety-in-domestic-and-international-travel/

 

From what I heard about this, this is for 100 days and I doubt there will be any cruising before then. 

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19 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Ok I'll bite, what makes you think there will be a vaccine for kids when it's already been said it will take until summer before there are enough doses for adults?

 

We have a long road ahead.

 

Key word is "really hoping". Studies are already underway in other countries and the US is conducting a study of it's own for 14+. One or more of the current vaccines may very well be safe/effective. I'm hoping there is a better coordinated plan to expedite vaccines with the new administration as manufactures have stated that it's not a manufacturing problem but a distribution problem (they just need addresses). I also think there will be plenty of vaccines for kids with all the people who want to opt out and take their chances. There are plenty who won't take the vaccine, even in the medical field. Should be more than enough for those who want it by summer. 

Edited by cruisingguy007
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