No Cruising until July?

[exm]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:05 PM, SNJCruisers said:

Vaccines will be mandatory in order for cruising to return.  The industry does not want a repeat of what transpired a year ago.  Over the next few months as the percentage of those vaccinated grows and the return of cruising becomes more imminent, then official policies will be enacted. 

 

Again, there's ZERO proof for this, just speculation. We already know the issues with a vaccine requirement:

- How do you proof someone is vaccinated? There's no worldwide standard

- How do you deal with children under 16?

 

The only proof we have are the guidelines Carnival recently released, and the European/Asian cruises that are currently actually sailing. There's no vaccine requirement there.

[livingonthebeach]

11 minutes ago, exm said:

 

Again, there's ZERO proof for this, just speculation. We already know the issues with a vaccine requirement:

- How do you proof someone is vaccinated? There's no worldwide standard

- How do you deal with children under 16?

 

The only proof we have are the guidelines Carnival recently released, and the European/Asian cruises that are currently actually sailing. There's no vaccine requirement there.

 

Carnival has just taken down their health and safety protocols from their website.  Saga Cruises another UK cruise line to require proof of vaccination.  My guess is when Carnival re-publishes their requirements - proof of vaccination will be one of the protocols. 

 

Two small American cruise lines just announced that proof of vaccination will be required:

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/537676-two-american-cruise-lines-requiring-covid-19-vaccinations-before

Edited February 8, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[lenquixote66]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:29 PM, John&LaLa said:

 

Cosby's Noah routines are probably the funniest things I've ever heard. 

 

You can't just sweep that under the rug

Not sweeping anything 

[molly361]

5 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

When I see people like you who have been supporting them this entire time getting P.O. I know things are getting bad.  I agree that there comes a point where the cruise line needs to throw in the towel on some of these itineraries and do the right thing by the passenger.

Yet some of those same people are chomping at the bit to get back on board, even if mask wearing and vaccinations are mandatory  Obviously they are not that peeved

Edited February 8, 2021 by molly361

[SNJCruisers]

3 hours ago, exm said:

Again, there's ZERO proof for this, just speculation. We already know the issues with a vaccine requirement:

- How do you proof someone is vaccinated? There's no worldwide standard

- How do you deal with children under 16?

The cruise lines will come up with some sort of official way to prove you have been vaccinated and children will just not be able to cruise in the short term.  They will be a casualty and families will just have to adjust their vacation plans for about 18 months or so until a vaccine is available for kids

[molly361]

58 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

The cruise lines will come up with some sort of official way to prove you have been vaccinated and children will just not be able to cruise in the short term.  They will be a casualty and families will just have to adjust their vacation plans for about 18 months or so until a vaccine is available for kids

Some folks on here are having a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that kids might not be able to cruise for the short term.  It won't be forever if it ever happens at all

[lizzius]

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

Some folks on here are having a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that kids might not be able to cruise for the short term.  It won't be forever if it ever happens at all.

I think everyone understands it as a possibility, just a highly ill-advised one, given what we know about how the vaccines are performing and the broader problems with immunity passports.

 

I think everyone here understands we're all at the mercy of bean pushers and underwriters who are taking cues from government officials and with any luck statisticians.

[mek]

4 minutes ago, lizzius said:

I think everyone understands it as a possibility, just a highly ill-advised one, given what we know about how the vaccines are performing and the broader problems with immunity passports.

 

I think everyone here understands we're all at the mercy of bean pushers and underwriters who are taking cues from government officials and with any luck statisticians.

I disagree, I think there are many who believe anyone under 16 should be exempt from a mandatory vaccination requirement or don't think it's fair if they're not.

[lizzius]

12 minutes ago, mek said:

I disagree, I think there are many who believe anyone under 16 should be exempt from a mandatory vaccination requirement or don't think it's fair if they're not.

Yes, and I'm one of them... Kids are a several orders of magnitude less susceptible to disease, and there's no evidence they spread the virus more than vaccinated adults, or that we should even be worried about it once adults are vaccinated. As time goes on, I think we'll see more outbreaks among vaccinated adults (especially the elderly) that validates this thinking and will further render the idea of eradication as well, impossible. 

 

That doesn't mean I can't "wrap my head around" the idea that cruise lines may require vaccination of children for reasons that aren't necessarily logical from a disease prevention standpoint. Most people here are capable of nuanced discussion.

Edited February 8, 2021 by lizzius

[Garyjames220]

I can’t see that happening. 
 

cruise lines like Disney is mainly family’s 

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, Garyjames220 said:

I can’t see that happening.

cruise lines like Disney is mainly family’s 

So Disney sits on the sidelines till 2023 if vaccinations become mandatory.  It's only a short term thing, not permanent.

[livingonthebeach]

Disney Cruise Lines has only 4 ships and the revenue is a very small percentage for the Walt Disney Company as a whole, so shutting down until 2022 or 2023 will not hurt the company significantly. 

[smokeybandit]

4 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

The cruise lines will come up with some sort of official way to prove you have been vaccinated and children will just not be able to cruise in the short term.  They will be a casualty and families will just have to adjust their vacation plans for about 18 months or so until a vaccine is available for kids

Or just ban those at high risk of covid complications, which is a much smaller portion of the population than kids and families.

[SNJCruisers]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Or just ban those at high risk of covid complications, which is a much smaller portion of the population than kids and families.

Percentages of the population does not come into play here.  You obviously either cruise with kids or you're against vaccines.   It's obvious you're on one side of the line drawn into the sand and I am on the other.  We'll see what happens when the smoke clears and the bean counters figure out what the new protocols are going to be.  If it's what is currently being implemented on the Quantum and the only addition is that you have to be vaccinated, which has already been implemented by Saga Cruises as well as two different river lines, then I will claim victory.

[NancyIL]

10 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Disney Cruise Lines has only 4 ships and the revenue is a very small percentage for the Walt Disney Company as a whole, so shutting down until 2022 or 2023 will not hurt the company significantly. 

If vaccine requirements are at the discretion of the cruise lines, then I don’t see Disney Cruise Line requiring them - at least not for minors.

[molly361]

I would think whatever way the cruise lines go they will all follow the same basic protocols regarding requiring or not requiring vaccines.  Or if the CDC is allowed to mandate that perhaps it will come from them.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, NancyIL said:

If vaccine requirements are at the discretion of the cruise lines, then I don’t see Disney Cruise Line requiring them - at least not for minors.

 

I agree.  If they don't require them at parks and if it's at their discretion, they probably will not require them on cruises. 

[mek]

54 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Or just ban those at high risk of covid complications, which is a much smaller portion of the population than kids and families.

And who exactly decides exactly what those thresholds are?  Healthy seniors who have been vaccinated should be banned to allow unvaccinated children to cruise? ROTFLMAO

If it's so safe, why are teachers in several major cities refusing to go back to work w/o a vaccine?  Some of them are even insisting that their students be vaccinated before they will return.

Edited February 9, 2021 by mek

[lizzius]

1 hour ago, SNJCruisers said:

Percentages of the population does not come into play here.  You obviously either cruise with kids or you're against vaccines.   It's obvious you're on one side of the line drawn into the sand and I am on the other.  We'll see what happens when the smoke clears and the bean counters figure out what the new protocols are going to be.  If it's what is currently being implemented on the Quantum and the only addition is that you have to be vaccinated, which has already been implemented by Saga Cruises as well as two different river lines, then I will claim victory.

And here I was thinking we'd all just be happy to sail. 🙄 No need for this to be adversarial.

[lizzius]

37 minutes ago, mek said:

And who exactly decides exactly what those thresholds are?  Healthy seniors who have been vaccinated should be banned to allow unvaccinated children to cruise? ROTFLMAO

If it's so safe, why are teachers in several major cities refusing to go back to work w/o a vaccine?  Some of them are even insisting that their students be vaccinated before they will return.

No, they could be banned because even with the best vaccines the preliminary data suggests they're susceptible to disease (though mild) and there will be pathogen onboard. I read an early prediction that said once the virus becomes endemic, the toll among a healthy group of those 65+ who have been vaccinated is likely to be twice as bad as a normal flu season. Who knows if that will end up being true, but I think cruise lines are probably planning for the eventuality that more patients on board will require medical care... And I'm glad they are. It would be terrible to effectively ban such a large group of people from sailing if common sense measures can preclude the need to.

 

Also, I can tell by your tone you have a real problem with the idea that a circle drawn might not include you. Consider the way others feel, even though we all acknowledge the cruise lines are ultimately deciding what is best for their business and we have no control over it.

Edited February 9, 2021 by lizzius

[mek]

25 minutes ago, lizzius said:

No, they could be banned because even with the best vaccines the preliminary data suggests they're susceptible to disease (though mild) and there will be pathogen onboard. I read an early prediction that said once the virus becomes endemic, the toll among a healthy group of those 65+ who have been vaccinated is likely to be twice as bad as a normal flu season. Who knows if that will end up being true, but I think cruise lines are probably planning for the eventuality that more patients on board will require medical care... And I'm glad they are. It would be terrible to effectively ban such a large group of people from sailing if common sense measures can preclude the need to.

 

Also, I can tell by your tone you have a real problem with the idea that a circle drawn might not include you. Consider the way others feel, even though we all acknowledge the cruise lines are ultimately deciding what is best for their business and we have no control over it.

No, you really don't understand my tone at all.  I personally feel the best way to get cruising back up and running as quickly and safely as possible is ,at least short term , to require a vaccine for everyone and if that excludes those under 16, or folks who medically can't get a vaccine, or haven't had the chance to get one, then I think that is the best way to proceed and if I or anyone I usually travel with falls into those categories, then so be it.

 

I have already acknowledged that I might be bumped in November if capacity control measures are enforced and I realize I won't be able to take my 6 year old grandson with me either. But I'm not crying the blues saying that's not fair.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with feelings and you are correct  - none of us will have any control over what the ultimate set of protocols will be when cruising resumes.

 

 

[DCGuy64]

Let's all be clear about one thing: the cruise lines must operate within the law or they're toast. There haven't been any large cruiseliners sailing from any port in the United States or Canada since last spring, not due to lack of desire on the cruise industry's part, but because of government rules. Now, if a citizen's group were to petition the US or Canadian government that a vaccine requirement were to unfairly prejudice certain members of society or be somehow discriminatory, and the CDC or a similar body enacted a rule that "no common carrier such as an airline or a cruise ship may deny passage to a person simply due to lack of vaccination," then we could all get mad and stomp our feet that Carnival, RCI, et al can't put a vaccine requirement into effect, well that's how it goes. There has already been concern in Europe (notably in Germany) that a vaccine passport would create an unfair two-tiered society (the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated) and that would impinge on people's human rights. If governments say you can't force people to get vaccinated in order to cruise, then the cruise lines won't do it. They're not going to risk losing their licenses by disobeying the law.

[molly361]

16 hours ago, Garyjames220 said:

I can’t see that happening. 
 

cruise lines like Disney is mainly family’s 

I would be very surprised if all cruise lines did not do the same thing regarding whether they mandate vaccines or not.  Or maybe Disney will be the line for all the unvaccinated😇 whether it be children  or adults.  Just don't see that happening

[ipeeinthepool]

21 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

The cruise lines will come up with some sort of official way to prove you have been vaccinated and children will just not be able to cruise in the short term.  They will be a casualty and families will just have to adjust their vacation plans for about 18 months or so until a vaccine is available for kids

 

Agreed 100%.  It's time for the old folks to go to Disney for the next year or so.   Disney without kids would be great.

[lizzius]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Agreed 100%.  It's time for the old folks to go to Disney for the next year or so.   Disney without kids would be great.

Yeah, kids ruin everything. 🙄