Further nail into the cruising coffin.

[jelayne]

11 hours ago, Shadow9612 said:

 

 

This is what bothers me.  X shouldn't be waiting until after final payment to cancel cruises that basically have no chance of operating.  

 

I'll soon have too many FCCs....  

 

 

if you booked with a refundable deposit and you don’t think the cruise will happen why not cancel and get your deposit refunded.  We have done that with 3 cruises and all were eventually cancelled.  

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, TMaine said:

They are allowing up to 48 hours before sailing to cancel and get a refund or FCC.  Or cancel before final payment and get your deposit back. 

The FlexibleCancellation offers a FCC not a refund.

 

[ORV]

2 hours ago, TMaine said:

It seems strange that if people are convinced that their cruise will be canceled, why are you still booked? Just cancel your booking and be done with it.

We have a Europe 21 cruise booked and if it sails then we will likely be on it, if not then we will book something next year.   I feel privileged to be able to take vacations like a cruise and I feel like the cruise lines are doing their best, under the quickly changing circumstances, to adapt. 

Unless I'm missing something here is why. Many people are booked with a non refundable deposit. If they cancel before Celebrity cancels then you will lose $200, and get the other $700 as a FCC. If Celebrity cancels either before or after FP then you get all the deposit back, or possibly a FCC of 125%. Also if they get you to make final payment then they get to hold on to your money longer for an interest free loan. 

[paulh84]

2 minutes ago, ORV said:

Unless I'm missing something here is why. Many people are booked with a non refundable deposit. If they cancel before Celebrity cancels then you will lose $200, and get the other $700 as a FCC. If Celebrity cancels either before or after FP then you get all the deposit back, or possibly a FCC of 125%. Also if they get you to make final payment then they get to hold on to your money longer for an interest free loan. 

 

I think among all of the FCC/L&S/refund, etc. confusion over the past year, some people may have forgotten that if you do have a refundable deposit, you can simply cancel prior to final payment and be done with it. 

[ORV]

2 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

I think among all of the FCC/L&S/refund, etc. confusion over the past year, some people may have forgotten that if you do have a refundable deposit, you can simply cancel prior to final payment and be done with it. 

Absolutely, but in my situation as an example. We booked a cruise in early 19 for Sept of 20. Due to the price difference we went with the NRD. In the past 20 years we have never booked a cruise that we didn't go on. I know other people for various reasons do cancel cruises, it's just that we haven't. Other than doomsday preppers who could really predict what happened. SO, for us it made sense at the time to book the NRD. Long story short, we got nervous, cancelled before Celebrity did and lost $200. I'm not blaming anyone though like some do, choice I made. 

[Oceangoer2]

Just now, ORV said:

Absolutely, but in my situation as an example. We booked a cruise in early 19 for Sept of 20. Due to the price difference we went with the NRD. In the past 20 years we have never booked a cruise that we didn't go on. I know other people for various reasons do cancel cruises, it's just that we haven't. Other than doomsday preppers who could really predict what happened. SO, for us it made sense at the time to book the NRD. Long story short, we got nervous, cancelled before Celebrity did and lost $200. I'm not blaming anyone though like some do, choice I made. 

We just kept moving our cancelled cruise (booked onboard at $200 NRD) to one cruise after the other.  Keeping $200 in limbo not a concern, but shifting from one ship to the other was disappointing.  We're now booked Silhouette Nov. '21....most likely this will be cancelled so another shift to Nov. '23 if they do a L&S again....deflating the original $200 further...LOL.

[downsmead]

All deposits here in the U.K. are NRD.

Edited February 18, 2021 by downsmead

[Shadow9612]

56 minutes ago, jelayne said:

if you booked with a refundable deposit and you don’t think the cruise will happen why not cancel and get your deposit refunded.  We have done that with 3 cruises and all were eventually cancelled.  

My problem is that my 2020 and 2021 bookings were all NON-refundable deposits. 

 

For years and years, I always booked with Refundable Deposits...then, after never cancelling a cruise, I thought I would switch to NRD because of the huge price savings.

 

So in 2019, I booked a bunch of NRD cruises!  I thought, even if I miss one, it'll be ok with the loss of only $100 and transfer of the balance by FCC...never envisioned being unable to cruise due to a pandemic.   

 

I now will potentially have thousands of dollars in FCC and not sure when I can even use them.  I'm very distraught by this. 

[Shadow9612]

2 hours ago, TMaine said:

It seems strange that if people are convinced that their cruise will be canceled, why are you still booked? Just cancel your booking and be done with it.

We have a Europe 21 cruise booked and if it sails then we will likely be on it, if not then we will book something next year.   I feel privileged to be able to take vacations like a cruise and I feel like the cruise lines are doing their best, under the quickly changing circumstances, to adapt. 

I also feel privileged to cruise, and I was impressed with Celebrity's Lift and Shift.  

 

However, I feel that it is inappropriate if they wait until after final payment before cancelling a cruise that they know will not sail.  

 

[TMaine]

It would seem that if you are willing to make a non-refundable deposit on anything then you have already decided that you are willing to forfeit that money. 

 

We are fortunate to even be talking about taking a vacation where so many can not. 

[Roy&Adrian]

Am I being too cynical - or are cruise lines deliberately still scheduling departures in just under 3 months' time - when a final payment is required 3 months before departure? Meaning, if they cancel, they have your money. I see that Celebrity are taking bookings for May 1st cruises, which seems optimistic.

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, TMaine said:

It would seem that if you are willing to make a non-refundable deposit on anything then you have already decided that you are willing to forfeit that money. 

 

We are fortunate to even be talking about taking a vacation where so many can not. 

Maybe in the past.  But many people that put up non-refundable deposits did so before the pandemic and before all cruising came to a grinding halt.  Nobody would have anticipated this scenario so a lot of people are caught up in it.    Now, booking future cruises it is a different story and I agree that it is not wise to go with non-refundable deposits.  

[Shadow9612]

2 minutes ago, TMaine said:

It would seem that if you are willing to make a non-refundable deposit on anything then you have already decided that you are willing to forfeit that money. 

I disagree. 

 

Pre-pandemic, I made a NRD as I was committed to sail with Celebrity and they gave me a lower price in recognition of that commitment.

 

At that time, yes, I was willing to forfeit my deposit if I chose not to sail with them for my own reasons. 

 

The pandemic changed the playing field. 

 

Given the almost certainty that some sailings won't sail, it is inappropriate (and imo unethical) for Celebrity to wait until after final payment to cancel the cruise.     Alternatively, if there really is a chance the ship will sail, but they want to be fair, why not move the final payment date closer to the sail date?

 

[paulh84]

7 minutes ago, Roy&Adrian said:

Am I being too cynical - or are cruise lines deliberately still scheduling departures in just under 3 months' time - when a final payment is required 3 months before departure? Meaning, if they cancel, they have your money. I see that Celebrity are taking bookings for May 1st cruises, which seems optimistic.

 

Many lines are, yes. They are trying to secure bookings. Cruises will resume eventually. They are at a point where it does not make a lot of sense to cancel several months at a time. I've said before, anyone booking new cruises today for spring, summer, perhaps into fall of 2021 are either gleefully hopeful or trying to game the system and collect the extra 25% in FCC's. 

[ipeeinthepool]

6 minutes ago, Roy&Adrian said:

Am I being too cynical - or are cruise lines deliberately still scheduling departures in just under 3 months' time - when a final payment is required 3 months before departure? Meaning, if they cancel, they have your money. I see that Celebrity are taking bookings for May 1st cruises, which seems optimistic.

 

I think part of the reason to wait until final payment is to help support the travel agents.  Travel agents get their commission after the cruise is fully paid.  This helps support the TA's in a time where their income has been significantly reduced.  Celebrity recognizes the need to keep TA's healthy so they can book new reservations when sailing resumes.  Celebrity also needs the TA's to service many of the bookings that must be cancelled or modified.  

[paulh84]

5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I think part of the reason to wait until final payment is to help support the travel agents.  Travel agents get their commission after the cruise is fully paid.  This helps support the TA's in a time where their income has been significantly reduced.  Celebrity recognizes the need to keep TA's healthy so they can book new reservations when sailing resumes.  Celebrity also needs the TA's to service many of the bookings that must be cancelled or modified.  

 

If I understand correctly, they are getting paid on reservations cancelled by Celebrity, paid reservations, FCC's and Lift and Shift reservations. i.e., you have a cancelled cruise and rebook using an FCC, they get paid for both cruises. 

[ipeeinthepool]

Just now, paulh84 said:

 

If I understand correctly, they are getting paid on reservations cancelled by Celebrity, paid reservations, FCC's and Lift and Shift reservations. i.e., you have a cancelled cruise and rebook using an FCC, they get paid for both cruises. 

 

I won't claim to be an expert on the commission structure but I believe that their commissions are often reduced when FCC's are used for the cruise.  Perhaps some FCC's are treated differently and this isn't the case.  I'm not sure if you are suggesting that TA's only deserved to be paid for one of your cruises if you cancel.   I'll suggest that's not an appropriate way to look at the situation.  The TA's really don't work for the cruiser, they work for the cruise line.  It' really shouldn't matter to you if they get paid for the cancelled cruise and a new cruise.  About half the time the cruiser elects a refund.  The cruise lines recognize the TA's are vital to their business model and need to find a way to keep them in business. and this is a way to channel some commission to the TA's while no ships are sailing.

 

[Shadow9612]

18 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Maybe in the past.  But many people that put up non-refundable deposits did so before the pandemic and before all cruising came to a grinding halt.  Nobody would have anticipated this scenario so a lot of people are caught up in it.    Now, booking future cruises it is a different story and I agree that it is not wise to go with non-refundable deposits.  

Exactly.  If I were making a new booking now, I'd book Refundable.

 

Another add-on to my other comments - I would even be "ok" with losing $100pp of the NRD and them refunding the balance of a $900pp deposit.  I understand they are a business (that I want to survive since I want to cruise again).  

 

It is the 'ethical' decision related to WHEN they cancel (before or after final payment) that I am having a problem with since it seems intentionally to keep our money.

[Tony UK]

I was sad to see this post. The current situation in the UK is improving and vaccine rollout going at pace. The restrictions currently in place are to limit the spread of varients from Brazil and South Africa primarily. It DOES NOT affect all areas, and as such I found it a little alarmist.

Of course there will be restrictions from time to time where new dangers emerge, and it is impossible to forecast where or when this will occur,  but all governments will act to protect their people.  Countries such as Australia and New Zealand have had this type of quarantine for some time.

Yes there will be some disruption, but the world will need to get moving againat some point. 

I hope for a more positive outcome for European travel, maybe later in the Summer.

[TMaine]

I suspect X wants to get back to cruising as much as the rest of us.  I doubt their process is as sinister as suggested and they are waiting until the last minute to cancel with the hope that they can sail.  Things are changing daily.  

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, TMaine said:

It would seem that if you are willing to make a non-refundable deposit on anything then you have already decided that you are willing to forfeit that money. 

 

We are fortunate to even be talking about taking a vacation where so many can not. 

I booked my July 26, 2021 cruise on Dec 2, 2019....I'm not willing to "forfeit" my $900 NRD.

I would have never cancelled this cruise and if X doesn't cancel before final payment is due or extend the payment date when they have more info I won't book X again.

[Shadow9612]

28 minutes ago, TMaine said:

I suspect X wants to get back to cruising as much as the rest of us.  I doubt their process is as sinister as suggested and they are waiting until the last minute to cancel with the hope that they can sail.  Things are changing daily.  

Then why not move final payment date closer to sail date?  

[jagoffee]

1 hour ago, Shadow9612 said:

My problem is that my 2020 and 2021 bookings were all NON-refundable deposits. 

 

For years and years, I always booked with Refundable Deposits...then, after never cancelling a cruise, I thought I would switch to NRD because of the huge price savings.

 

So in 2019, I booked a bunch of NRD cruises!  I thought, even if I miss one, it'll be ok with the loss of only $100 and transfer of the balance by FCC...never envisioned being unable to cruise due to a pandemic.   

 

I now will potentially have thousands of dollars in FCC and not sure when I can even use them.  I'm very distraught by this. 

I was wondering why you would just cancel.  Thank you for the explanation.  
I would hope that Celebrity would at least waive the $100 fee and give you FCC for the total amount if you decide to cancel a 2021 cruise.  I am a little surprised that they are still charging the $100 fee.  

My next booked cruise is the Apex TA at the end of October.  Obviously it is very iffy at this point.  I have applied a very large generous non refundable FCC ($7K total) to that cruise.  It was for a cruise cancelled prior to the shutdown and it was set to expire if I did not apply it.   If I cancel the cruise, I lose the large FCC as was clear in the terms.  It will be interesting to see what Celebrity does if the cruise is cancelled.  I will make the final payment if necessary to protect the FCC.

 

Like many people, I am disappointed that our situation prevents us from cruising.  But I am hopeful and very pleased with the aggressive roll out of the promising vaccines is such a short period of time.  It is a miracle in my opinion.    

[OUBaylor1]

2 hours ago, ORV said:

Unless I'm missing something here is why. Many people are booked with a non refundable deposit. If they cancel before Celebrity cancels then you will lose $200, and get the other $700 as a FCC. If Celebrity cancels either before or after FP then you get all the deposit back, or possibly a FCC of 125%. Also if they get you to make final payment then they get to hold on to your money longer for an interest free loan. 

I am in agreement with ORV as to why Celebrity waits until after final payment to cancel a cruise.  Though frustrating and annoying for us, it makes good business sense for Celebrity to acquire as much interest as possible for as long as possible.  I am one of those people who had a refundable deposit but decided to gamble on receiving a FCC of 125%.  My husband and I are booked on the 29 May 2021 Iceland/Ireland cruise and have already booked this same cruise for June 2022.  The 11 June 2022 is about $1,000 USD more per person.  So the FCC of 125% would be nice.

[Fouremco]

24 minutes ago, TMaine said:

I suspect X wants to get back to cruising as much as the rest of us.  I doubt their process is as sinister as suggested and they are waiting until the last minute to cancel with the hope that they can sail.  Things are changing daily.  

In some cases, I might agree, but there have been far too many last minute cancellations since last March where there was no hope whatsoever of the cruise taking place, but Celebrity held of cancellation until after final payment. It's no wonder that there is now great skepticism over Celebrity's motivation for any delayed cancellation.