New CDC Guidelines for Vaccinated People

[Sky616]

2 minutes ago, Keksie said:

I am just waiting for the CDC to tell me I can do something I am not already doing.  

Absolutely.  Don't listen to any of their BS and haven't the whole time.

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, Keksie said:

I am just waiting for the CDC to tell me I can do something I am not already doing.  

 

Everything but traveling - especially cruising LOL 

[Pandamonia]

22 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You really can’t say the gamble has paid off. You have no idea what a patient’s immunity level will be after their 12 week Pfizer follow up shot. 
I can tell you these vaccines were trialed at different intervals, and 21 days was selected

for a reason. This is why the FDA prohibited the intervals to be changed in the USA. 

The UK gamble may turn out to achieve a larger number of people with some resistance, that will never achieve the maximum resistance possible due to the interval. 

 

This isnt correct. 

 

21 days was selected because thats what the trial data was based on. It has nothing to do with what is better or worse. 

 

The UK has been running studies on antibody levels and they have found that antibody levels have continued to rise consistently well in to the 3rd month. Also this is based on the oldest and weakest people who were first in line for the pfizer vaccine. Younger people have stronger immune systems and the expectation is that immune response will be even better. 

 

In fact it has worked out better than even the best estimates but the idea was to give everyone a level of immunity in the early days knowing summer would buy time for follow up shots. It makes no sense to waste 2nd doses on people when there are millions still vulnerable.

[sandebeach]

17 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Florida is starting to get more vaccine supplies in and has opened additional sites.  The eligibility requirements have been relaxed and thankfully availability to all will soon be here. 

Yes, and i just read that Orange County Convention Center will now allow any school or University staff to get vaccinated. University faculty and staff have not been previously allowed unless they met the age or at-risk requirement. 

[firefly333]

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Pandamonia said:

This isnt correct. 

 

21 days was selected because thats what the trial data was based on. It has nothing to do with what is better or worse. 

 

The UK has been running studies on antibody levels and they have found that antibody levels have continued to rise consistently well in to the 3rd month. Also this is based on the oldest and weakest people who were first in line for the pfizer vaccine. Younger people have stronger immune systems and the expectation is that immune response will be even better. 

 

In fact it has worked out better than even the best estimates but the idea was to give everyone a level of immunity in the early days knowing summer would buy time for follow up shots. It makes no sense to waste 2nd doses on people when there are millions still vulnerable.

I’m sorry but I will defer to the manufacturer testing upon which the protocols were set. You have no idea if it’s working out better than expected, because you don’t have nearly enough 12 week Pfizer vaccinated individuals to present adequate date VS millions of 21 day second vaccines and counting (not to mention that there is next to no post 2nd vaccine data on the 12 week cycle) 

Judging by your numerous questionable posts regarding masking, I will stick by the data that the entire international scientific community is basing their vaccine protocols on. 

[Sea Dog]

3 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

Then enter the users name that you wish to disappear.  Hope this helps.

Thanks I don't like wasting my time with difficult people. Life is too short.

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You really can’t say the gamble has paid off. You have no idea what a patient’s immunity level will be after their 12 week Pfizer follow up shot. 
I can tell you these vaccines were trialed at different intervals, and 21 days was selected

for a reason. This is why the FDA prohibited the intervals to be changed in the USA. 

The UK gamble may turn out to achieve a larger number of people with some resistance, that will never achieve the maximum resistance possible due to the interval. 

 

I will defer to that but ask a counter question? With later second dose of Pfizer, won't that group of people have longer lasting protection? Or will it not work like that?

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, ace2542 said:

I will defer to that but ask a counter question? With later second dose of Pfizer, won't that group of people have longer lasting protection? Or will it not work like that?

No one knows because it was not studied that way. There is a chance of that. There is also a chance (more likely) that 12 weeks later, the T cell response to the second dose will be FAR less robust, because the affects of the first dose have long been degraded.  “Stacking” the T cell response in a well defined, short timeframe creates a greater response and subsequently stronger antibody response. This  I must assume is the reason the American CDC declined to allow this type of scheduling here. 

[Pandamonia]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I’m sorry but I will defer to the manufacturer testing upon which the protocols were set. You have no idea if it’s working out better than expected, because you don’t have nearly enough 12 week Pfizer vaccinated individuals to present adequate date VS millions of 21 day second vaccines and counting (not to mention that there is next to no post 2nd vaccine data on the 12 week cycle) 

Judging by your numerous questionable posts regarding masking, I will stick by the data that the entire international scientific community is basing their vaccine protocols on. 

Oh really. Im pretty sure we have millions of vaccinated people with pfizer actually. We have vaccinated over 30% of the population already using 2 different vaccines. Both on 12 week intervals. 

 

The science has supported this method and vaccinating everyone faster far outweighs giving already vaccinated people a small amount of additional protection. 

 

 

[TMLAalum]

Pfizer Protocol- FWIW Walgreen's in northern O-H-I-O USA scheduled and administered my 2nd Pfizer vaccine exactly 4 weeks to the minute from the 1st dose. When I questioned my PCP at the Cleveland Clinic about this timing, she said that even a range of 6 weeks between jabs would be acceptable based on her knowledge.

[PelicanBill]

The CDC is a US branch of the Department of Health and Human Services.  There is interagency cooperation with the FDA which regulates medicines.

 

The CDC has jurisdiction over health matters involving travel, for incoming travelers in all cases, and for cruises because to grant permission to sail in US ports we require they subject themselves to our regulations. (same for crime jurisdiction.)

 

Although there is a World Health Organization, many countries look to the US CDC as the world's experts especially on infectious diseases.

 

[nomad098]

58 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

No one knows because it was not studied that way. There is a chance of that. There is also a chance (more likely) that 12 weeks later, the T cell response to the second dose will be FAR less robust, because the affects of the first dose have long been degraded.  “Stacking” the T cell response in a well defined, short timeframe creates a greater response and subsequently stronger antibody response. This  I must assume is the reason the American CDC declined to allow this type of scheduling here. 

 

Pfizer and Moderna dosing protocols are arbitrary they chose a dosing protocol and stuck with it according to both Pfizer and Moderna. 

 

Spacing the dosing in the UK is partly based on the effectiveness of the Astrazeneca/Oxford based upon dosing protocols set up in the trials

 

And is also based upon very robust historical scientific evidence carried out over many decades into immunisation carried out by the national health service. Holding and having access to records going back to the 1940's of everyone's immunisations provides a wealth of knowledge. 

 

Because Pfizer and Moderna chose 1 single dosing protocol and stated they would not advise changing this. If the CDC or US Government did alter the dosing and something went wrong who would be legally liable? Certainly not Pfizer or Moderna

 

Right or wrong the UK have chosen to listen and believe their scientific advisers and experts not the manufacturers of the mRNA vaccines and only time will tell which course was correct.

 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

Pfizer and Moderna dosing protocols are arbitrary they chose a dosing protocol and stuck with it according to both Pfizer and Moderna. 

 

Spacing the dosing in the UK is partly based on the effectiveness of the Astrazeneca/Oxford based upon dosing protocols set up in the trials

 

And is also based upon very robust historical scientific evidence carried out over many decades into immunisation carried out by the national health service. Holding and having access to records going back to the 1940's of everyone's immunisations provides a wealth of knowledge. 

 

Because Pfizer and Moderna chose 1 single dosing protocol and stated they would not advise changing this. If the CDC or US Government did alter the dosing and something went wrong who would be legally liable? Certainly not Pfizer or Moderna

 

Right or wrong the UK have chosen to listen and believe their scientific advisers and experts not the manufacturers of the mRNA vaccines and only time will tell which course was correct.

 

Basing the spacing of Moderna or Pfizer vaccines based on experience with Astra Zeneca is laughable. They aren’t the same type

of vaccine. 
Having everyone’s records back to 1940, means absolutely NOTHING 

Edited March 10, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Pandamonia said:

Oh really. Im pretty sure we have millions of vaccinated people with pfizer actually. We have vaccinated over 30% of the population already using 2 different vaccines. Both on 12 week intervals. 

 

The science has supported this method and vaccinating everyone faster far outweighs giving already vaccinated people a small amount of additional protection. 

 

 

No, wrong again. 
 

The first Covid vaccine given in the UK was December 8. Twelve weeks from that date was last Tuesday March 2. 
 

You have ZERO post vaccinated data on a 12 week vaccine interval with the Pfizer product. 
 

There is NO science backing this protocol. 

[ReneeFLL]

5 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Florida is starting to get more vaccine supplies in and has opened additional sites.  The eligibility requirements have been relaxed and thankfully availability to all will soon be here. 

Do you know if the Johnson & Johnson vaccine has made it to Florida yet? I would rather have the Pfizer or Moderna.

[Pandamonia]

5 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

No, wrong again. 
 

The first Covid vaccine given in the UK was December 8. Twelve weeks from that date was last Tuesday March 2. 
 

You have ZERO post vaccinated data on a 12 week vaccine interval with the Pfizer product. 
 

There is NO science backing this protocol. 

 

How do you know there is no science backing this protocol exactly? Do you know what studies have been and are currently being done? Imperial College has been running studies and collecting data all through the pandemic. 

 

You do realise that the WHO have come out and praised the move which has paid off and they are considering changing their own advice. 

 

Fact is there is NO NEGATIVE evidence for not doing it other than it goes against what pfizer did in their study. Pfizer never tested any other duration.

[jagsfan]

27 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

Do you know if the Johnson & Johnson vaccine has made it to Florida yet? I would rather have the Pfizer or Moderna.

My daughter got Johnson & Johnson at Walmart Monday. In Jacksonville. 
She was online at 6:45am to try to get a Publix appointment, and then was told none left, so she tried Walmart. 
Disappointed it wasn’t Moderna or Pfizer, but her doctor told her not to worry about it. He said she might have a higher chance of getting COVID, but still no chance of a serious illness. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by jagsfan

[not-enough-cruising]

22 minutes ago, Pandamonia said:

 

How do you know there is no science backing this protocol exactly? Do you know what studies have been and are currently being done? Imperial College has been running studies and collecting data all through the pandemic. 

 

You do realise that the WHO have come out and praised the move which has paid off and they are considering changing their own advice. 

 

Fact is there is NO NEGATIVE evidence for not doing it other than it goes against what pfizer did in their study. Pfizer never tested any other duration.

I have no doubt the Imperial College has been conducting multiple studies throughout the pandemic, however NONE of them have been on a 12 week Pfizer dosing interval. 
 

The official stance by the WHO is to follow the 21 and 28 day intervals as closely as possible, and when that is not possible every attempt must be made to administer the second dose no longer than 6 weeks after the first. 
 

You are correct there is no Negative evidence yet regarding this policy; there is also no POSITIVE evidence. There is however VOLUMES of positive evidence regarding the 21 and 28 day protocols. 

[Pandamonia]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I have no doubt the Imperial College has been conducting multiple studies throughout the pandemic, however NONE of them have been on a 12 week Pfizer dosing interval. 
 

The official stance by the WHO is to follow the 21 and 28 day intervals as closely as possible, and when that is not possible every attempt must be made to administer the second dose no longer than 6 weeks after the first. 
 

You are correct there is no Negative evidence yet regarding this policy; there is also no POSITIVE evidence. There is however VOLUMES of positive evidence regarding the 21 and 28 day protocols. 

Actually there is positive evidence. The actual efficacy is up from 50% to over 70% after 1 dose. 

 

The most important effect is that it has doubled the speed of the vaccination program protecting 30% of the population who are the most vulnerable and cut deaths massively even with a single dose. 

 

The only positive data on the 21 day 2nd dose is the high efficacy rate but that comes at the cost of immunising half as many people and leaving 1 in 2 without any protection at all. Given the 500k+ deaths in the US and the mortality rate that is quite an unethical choice. One which they can just hide behind the recommendation of the dosing regimen. 

 

It was a very low risk strategy for the UK because we will have 5+ vaccines to choose from and 340 million doses so if one protection fades then a different vaccine can be used based on a different technology. There are also combination trials happening right now for mix and match vaccines as well as reformulation for new variants.

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, Pandamonia said:

Actually there is positive evidence. The actual efficacy is up from 50% to over 70% after 1 dose. 

 

The most important effect is that it has doubled the speed of the vaccination program protecting 30% of the population who are the most vulnerable and cut deaths massively even with a single dose. 

 

The only positive data on the 21 day 2nd dose is the high efficacy rate but that comes at the cost of immunising half as many people and leaving 1 in 2 without any protection at all. Given the 500k+ deaths in the US and the mortality rate that is quite an unethical choice. One which they can just hide behind the recommendation of the dosing regimen. 

 

It was a very low risk strategy for the UK because we will have 5+ vaccines to choose from and 340 million doses so if one protection fades then a different vaccine can be used based on a different technology. There are also combination trials happening right now for mix and match vaccines as well as reformulation for new variants.

 

 

Well, sounds like you have it all figured out. 
 

Good Day

[ace2542]

Just now, Pandamonia said:

There are also combination trials happening right now for mix and match vaccines as well as reformulation for new variants

There is also apparently to development of the next generation of vaccine which targets the core of the virus which is much less likely to mutate then the spike protein if I understand the science.

[ReneeFLL]

21 hours ago, ace2542 said:

I am sure Royal and the other lines are open to suggestions as to how get vaccines on a corporate level for staff when for all intents and purposes that doesn't seem to be possible. And since that doesn't seem to be possible I am sure they are open to suggestion on how to protect their staff from an outbreak which once it takes off will cripple a ship - the noro on the pearl April 2019 did -. I have no suggestions as to how achieve it apart from masks et al. But if you have any send them along.

If you need Bailey’s email I’m sure someone can dig it up for you. You really should go and investigate the best possible way and give them your suggestions. Report back in August with the results. 
 

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Basing the spacing of Moderna or Pfizer vaccines based in experience with Astra Zeneca is laughable. They aren’t the same type

of vaccine. 
having everyone’s records back to 1940, means absolutely NOTHING 

 

"Basing the spacing of Moderna or Pfizer vaccines based in experience" really what experience do they have for an entirely new method of creating a vaccine. The only real practical use for this type of technology before covid-19 was an experimental rabies treatment and experimental end stage cancer treatments. And this was only allowed because the treatment was slightly less risky than not treating the diseases.

 

Having records for the last 70+ years provide a knowledge base to look at the effects and outcomes of immunisations and other medical procedures, this also includes experimental treatments like mRNA. Having this knowledge base enabled doctors to look at existing drug profiles to aid treatment.

 

According to this pre print in the Lancet AstraZeneca vaccine is certainly in the top league, with evidence showing that spacing of the dosage being 2 fold better

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

 

Latest non peer reviewed data from scientists in the UK shows that both Pfizer and AZ both providing substantial protection, an interesting read in regards to spacing of the doses.

https://www.gponline.com/know-effectiveness-covid-19-vaccines/article/1708986

[ace2542]

4 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

You really should go and investigate the best possible way and give them your suggestions. Report back in August with the results

They are doing that already. Been doing it for a weeks. It is all very good issuing a statement of intent to require vaccination of staff. But we are no further forward as to how they intend to do it. It will be a lot harder than it sounds and I don't think they have much of an idea or a timeframe.