Cruise lines are home porting ships outside the US. New Normal?

[HBCcruiser]

Interesting article from USAToday.Cruise lines are finding greener pastures in ports outside the US. Will this become a permanent “new normal” costing the US billions of revenues and hundreds of thousands of jobs? I guess time will tell.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/travel/cruises/2021/04/22/cruises-leaving-us-cdc-continues-covid-cruise-ship-ban/7188058002/?build=native-web_i_p&fbclid=IwAR2ovHMfEQ3LM4WznxZUfqdtYxALolfJqJ8ks8Xn3gaHX72ULHurx3YIdx8

[BirdTravels]

Not the new normal. It is a way to restart. But the prospect of provisioning ships in small Caribbean ports that don’t have the infrastructure to support multiple ships embarking and disembarking is problematic and cost prohibitive. 
 

We are sailing on Royal out of Nassau. The logistics of getting a PCR test that is valid for flight and entry into the Bahamas (in addition to buy their COVID visa and insurance) and that is still valid for ship embarkation doesn’t allow you to spend time pre-cruise. And the logistics of getting tested on the ship for travel back to the US doesn’t allow you to spend time post-cruise in Nassau. Sure, you could spend your time trying to get tested in Nassau from a road side test stand. 

 

It was kind of like when we went to Hawaii earlier this year and changed hotel mid-stay and rented a car mid-stay,,,, we didn’t have a valid COVID test for the hotel or car rental. 

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, HBCcruiser said:

Interesting article from USAToday.Cruise lines are finding greener pastures in ports outside the US. Will this become a permanent “new normal” costing the US billions of revenues and hundreds of thousands of jobs? I guess time will tell.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/travel/cruises/2021/04/22/cruises-leaving-us-cdc-continues-covid-cruise-ship-ban/7188058002/?build=native-web_i_p&fbclid=IwAR2ovHMfEQ3LM4WznxZUfqdtYxALolfJqJ8ks8Xn3gaHX72ULHurx3YIdx8

 

Clicked on the link but it said the article was available only to USA Today subscribers. I'm not a USA Today subscriber 😥.

[mianmike]

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Not the new normal. It is a way to restart. But the prospect of provisioning ships in small Caribbean ports that don’t have the infrastructure to support multiple ships embarking and disembarking is problematic and cost prohibitive. 
 

We are sailing on Royal out of Nassau. The logistics of getting a PCR test that is valid for flight and entry into the Bahamas (in addition to buy their COVID visa and insurance) and that is still valid for ship embarkation doesn’t allow you to spend time pre-cruise. And the logistics of getting tested on the ship for travel back to the US doesn’t allow you to spend time post-cruise in Nassau. Sure, you could spend your time trying to get tested in Nassau from a road side test stand. 

 

It was kind of like when we went to Hawaii earlier this year and changed hotel mid-stay and rented a car mid-stay,,,, we didn’t have a valid COVID test for the hotel or car rental. 

 

Effective May 1 the Bahamas will permit vaccinated tourists to enter the country with no PCR test.  

[pe4all]

Until the U.S. loosens the restrictions on cruising I think the cruise lines will look for any way to start up.   While I would love to start cruising again, flying to the Bahamas, or another island to pick up a cruise seems too much of a hassle/expense for my family.  

[tallnthensome]

45 minutes ago, mianmike said:

 

Effective May 1 the Bahamas will permit vaccinated tourists to enter the country with no PCR test.  

This goes to solidify that if you’re wanting to cruise you’re going to need a vaccination. Not just to get on the ship but also to get into ports as well. The anti-vaxxers have lost that fight. 

[dexddd]

55 minutes ago, pe4all said:

Until the U.S. loosens the restrictions on cruising I think the cruise lines will look for any way to start up.   While I would love to start cruising again, flying to the Bahamas, or another island to pick up a cruise seems too much of a hassle/expense for my family.  

When we sail out of the US, it costs us at least as much to get to port, hotel, meals, dog watch as a mid-priced room on the ship.

 

Feel same way about extra expense and hassle.

[HBCcruiser]

1 hour ago, dexddd said:

When we sail out of the US, it costs us at least as much to get to port, hotel, meals, dog watch as a mid-priced room on the ship.

I agree. It actually was cheaper for me to fly to Nassau using Air2Sea and stay in a nice hotel on the beach than it was for my cancelled July cruise out of Miami. 

[oteixeira]

I think it totally depends on where you are sailing out of and where you are flying from.  I did look at some prices and it was a wash for Dominican Republic (compared to Miami) but the Jamaica flight was more expensive, as well as the Bahamas flight (but both by less then 200 total pp, which would not stop me).

[HBCcruiser]

16 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I think it totally depends on where you are sailing out of and where you are flying from.

Exactly. When you are flying east from CA to Miami, NY or Nassau, it seems to cost the same. 

[PTC DAWG]

Feds don't care, they'll just print more stimulus money. Buy more votes...winning for them.  

[onetimearoundtheworld]

They have done it all the time. Barcelona, Civitavecchia, Copenhagen, Dubai, Singapore, Sydney, Fort-De-France, Buenos Aires and dozens others. 

[graphicguy]

The state of Florida hasn't helped matters much, either.  They won't allow the cruise companies to sail from their ports if total COVID vaccinations is a requirement for all crew and passengers.  

 

The gating factor is being totally vaccinated, and NCL has put a stake in the ground as that's the required piece that allows their ships to cruise, again.  Plus, they've made some great strides in doing things like replacing their fleet with ventilation systems which kill virus', mold, etc.

 

So, until the state of Florida and the CDC changes their stance, I think sailing from the Caribbean as the origination port(s) is going to be the only option in North America.

 

And, I've seen many, many ships docked in most Caribbean ports simulltaneously.  Don't believe for a minute those Caribbean ports won't do their level best to make that a permanent "thing" by catering to the cruise lines and the passengers.

 

BTW, costs to fly and stay in the Caribbean aren't significantly different than it is to fly and stay in Miami, Orlando, etc.

[PTC DAWG]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

The state of Florida hasn't helped matters much, either.  They won't allow the cruise companies to sail from their ports if total COVID vaccinations is a requirement for all crew and passengers.  

 

The gating factor is being totally vaccinated, and NCL has put a stake in the ground as that's the required piece that allows their ships to cruise, again.  Plus, they've made some great strides in doing things like replacing their fleet with ventilation systems which kill virus', mold, etc.

 

So, until the state of Florida and the CDC changes their stance, I think sailing from the Caribbean as the origination port(s) is going to be the only option in North America.

 

And, I've seen many, many ships docked in most Caribbean ports simulltaneously.  Don't believe for a minute those Caribbean ports won't do their level best to make that a permanent "thing" by catering to the cruise lines and the passengers.

 

BTW, costs to fly and stay in the Caribbean aren't significantly different than it is to fly and stay in Miami, Orlando, etc.

Dawn Meyers, a partner with the government and regulatory team at Miami-based Berger Singerman, last week said DeSantis likely has no authority under interstate law, international law or maritime law to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations unless cruise ships were merely traveling from one Florida port to another.

Jim Walker, a South Florida attorney who specializes in maritime law, accused DeSantis of wanting to “have his cake and eat it too” by calling for the CDC to allow cruise lines to resume operations while prohibiting cruise lines from requiring vaccinations. “Both of these issues are well outside the jurisdiction of a state governor,” he said recently.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-silversea-cruises-to-require-vaccinations-20210412-7ok6fwabpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html

[Named-Tawny]

It's going to depend.  If the US is back up and cruising this summer, then a lot of the Caribbean ports will probably be  temporary.  But the longer it goes, the more likely they are to make it a more permanent thing.

Personally, I can see many/most of the Caribbean cruises moving back to the US, but I suspect that some of them will stay abroad.  The cruiselines already operate plenty of ships that don't homeport in the US, so this is more a matter of degrees, rather than a huge change of type.

And the ports that they're choosing tend to be high tourist traffic ports anyhow, with tourism infrastructure.  They might even be better for many non-US based cruisers, as it allows them to avoid the US customs and visa restrictions.

[graphicguy]

On 4/23/2021 at 12:59 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Dawn Meyers, a partner with the government and regulatory team at Miami-based Berger Singerman, last week said DeSantis likely has no authority under interstate law, international law or maritime law to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations unless cruise ships were merely traveling from one Florida port to another.

Jim Walker, a South Florida attorney who specializes in maritime law, accused DeSantis of wanting to “have his cake and eat it too” by calling for the CDC to allow cruise lines to resume operations while prohibiting cruise lines from requiring vaccinations. “Both of these issues are well outside the jurisdiction of a state governor,” he said recently.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-silversea-cruises-to-require-vaccinations-20210412-7ok6fwabpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html

Thanks for that.  I missed all of that.  Nothing like trying to flex your alleged power when you don't have it.

[HBCcruiser]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:36 AM, Named-Tawny said:

If the US is back up and cruising this summer, then a lot of the Caribbean ports will probably be  temporary.  But the longer it goes, the more likely they are to make it a more permanent thing.

I agree with you. Sad, though, for the US ports and people’s  jobs it negatively impacts. 
 

Question for you those in the know: Do the cruise companies sign contracts with the ports? If so, for how long?

[HowardK]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:13 AM, pe4all said:

Until the U.S. loosens the restrictions on cruising I think the cruise lines will look for any way to start up.   While I would love to start cruising again, flying to the Bahamas, or another island to pick up a cruise seems too much of a hassle/expense for my family.  

I totally agree- for me it defeats the purpose in a way with the extra time, risks involved. I liked sailing from Miami but the last several for me were from NYC as it is easier

[DCGuy64]

I am always envious of my fellow CC'ers who live near a cruise terminal, especially Floridians because of the weather. 😁 But given where we live, pretty much any cruise is going to involve a flight on an airplane, so whether we're flying to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Rome, London, Athens, Cancun, St Maarten or Nassau, it makes no difference to us. At the end of the day, we're going to fly.

[deliver42]

I don't blame the cruise lines at all. They are dealing with a hard headed CDC leader and they have to bring in some revenue. While they won't be full, at least money will be coming in softening the blow.

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I am always envious of my fellow CC'ers who live near a cruise terminal, especially Floridians because of the weather. 😁 But given where we live, pretty much any cruise is going to involve a flight on an airplane, so whether we're flying to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Rome, London, Athens, Cancun, St Maarten or Nassau, it makes no difference to us. At the end of the day, we're going to fly.

 

My sentiments, as well. From up here in Michigan, I would have to fly to one of the Florida ports you mentioned above, so no big deal to fly to Nassau, Bahamas or Punta Cana, Dominican Republic instead.

[kollegekreed]

They’ve mostly all been flagged outside of the US to avoid our tax laws for decades...why should this be any different...

[dexddd]

On 4/26/2021 at 6:32 PM, farmersfight said:

 

My sentiments, as well. From up here in Michigan, I would have to fly to one of the Florida ports you mentioned above, so no big deal to fly to Nassau, Bahamas or Punta Cana, Dominican Republic instead.

I'd agree except the number of flights to some of those places are a lot less options than MIA or FLL.  I'd probably be booked for Jamaica except for the lack of flights and price involved.

[HBCcruiser]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:32 PM, farmersfight said:

 

My sentiments, as well. From up here in Michigan, I would have to fly to one of the Florida ports you mentioned above, so no big deal to fly to Nassau, Bahamas or Punta Cana, Dominican Republic instead.

Royal Caribbean is subsidizing flights making them very affordable. I was able to book a much cheaper flight to Nassau through RCI’s Air2Sea program making the trip worth while. It is cheaper for me to fly from LAX to Nassau then from LAX to Miami. 

 

https://news.boat-cruises-trips.com/royal-caribbean-subsidizing-flights-from-new-york-to-bermuda-for-summer-2021-cruises-as-low-as-99/

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, dexddd said:

I'd agree except the number of flights to some of those places are a lot less options than MIA or FLL.  I'd probably be booked for Jamaica except for the lack of flights and price involved.

 

I didn't really have an issue with availabilities of flights. But price-wise, I found it interesting that it was less expensive to fly to Punta Cana, Dom Rep than to Nassau, Bahamas. I was even able to upgrade to Business class on my Dom Rep flights. I was also fortunate enough to be able to fly to Punta Cana instead of having to fly to Santo Domingo.

Edited April 28, 2021 by farmersfight