All inclusive. Not really. Expensive, YES!

[LGW59]

20 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Like the interesting discussion.  One underlying issue not considered is this is Celebrity's way of maximizing profits.  Celebrity, as an entity within RCG, is not motivated by emotions.  Motivation is greed (profit) and the company doesn't care a horse's pitute about what you like or don't like.  They only consider how and on what you spend you money.  Period!  Through their proprietary set of algorithms the company has determined that the best and easiest way to separate a customer from his/her money is through "AI."  The rest is fluff, marketing to get the customer to believe he/she is getting a good deal or at least a better deal than someone else or from some other company.  As customer is our job, at least for most if us, to make the determination its something on what we want to spend discretionary monies.  Simple.

 

The pandemic adds into the calculation of how much more can Celebrity charge for a cruise, how money can be "hidden" in a cruise fare without drawing too much attention, to help future cruisers pay the costs incurred during the restricted cruising period.  

 

This is really the "fun" period for experienced cruisers.  We have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, and then compare and select the one that we deem best for our personal situation.  We have always liked Celebrity.  Nice ships (Millennium through Reflection).  Princess offers a comparable product to Solstice with their Royal Class.  Have also enjoyed Azamara (formerly part of Celebrity).  For 2022 we have opted to cruise with Princess (trans-Atlantic), Celebrity (Greece and Adriatic) and Oceania (trans-Med and Trans-Atlantic) based on the quality of the itinerary and the ship/crew.  No consideration for "loyalty" programs anymore.

This is really the "fun" period for experienced cruisers.  We have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, and then compare and select the one that we deem best for our personal situation.  Note, even we unexperienced cruisers have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, then select the one we deem best for our personal situation.  For me Celebrity always wins, then again I do not look elsewhere, the floating amusements parks do nothing for me.

[tfred]

36 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Like the interesting discussion.  One underlying issue not considered is this is Celebrity's way of maximizing profits.  Celebrity, as an entity within RCG, is not motivated by emotions.  Motivation is greed (profit) and the company doesn't care a horse's pitute about what you like or don't like.  They only consider how and on what you spend you money.  Period!  Through their proprietary set of algorithms the company has determined that the best and easiest way to separate a customer from his/her money is through "AI."  The rest is fluff, marketing to get the customer to believe he/she is getting a good deal or at least a better deal than someone else or from some other company.  As customer is our job, at least for most if us, to make the determination its something on what we want to spend discretionary monies.  Simple.

 

The pandemic adds into the calculation of how much more can Celebrity charge for a cruise, how money can be "hidden" in a cruise fare without drawing too much attention, to help future cruisers pay the costs incurred during the restricted cruising period.  

 

This is really the "fun" period for experienced cruisers.  We have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, and then compare and select the one that we deem best for our personal situation.  We have always liked Celebrity.  Nice ships (Millennium through Reflection).  Princess offers a comparable product to Solstice with their Royal Class.  Have also enjoyed Azamara (formerly part of Celebrity).  For 2022 we have opted to cruise with Princess (trans-Atlantic), Celebrity (Greece and Adriatic) and Oceania (trans-Med and Trans-Atlantic) based on the quality of the itinerary and the ship/crew.  No consideration for "loyalty" programs anymore.

X wants to offer a differntiated, high quality product that offers vale at the price points that they have assigned them.  They want someone to like them and pay for them and be happy about it.  My guess is that they can, but everyone won't be happy (mostly existing cruisers who are looking for the old days).  I wouldn't call that greed as every company needs to make a sold profit.  

 

RCL (and almost every company on the earth) wants you to buy as  an emotional response to their advertising, marketing and enjoyment of the product.  Most people don't do spreadsheets of ABC vs 123 - they haven't go the time or inclination.  wants you to say "Expensive but worth it"

 

Loyalty to me is that there are no surprises when I buy the product.  I know when I stay at a Marriott (of whatever level) that there no no hidden dangers if I reserve a room in middle of no-where.  People are creatures of habit and will return if they think they have good value for what they paid

[Spif Barwunkel]

Always Included is always going to be more expensive because this particular marketing strategy is going to include more amenities for the money. Naturally, a price increase. Whether you take advantage of one or none of those amenities is up to you. They are there if you want them. If you want nothing to do with them, is the cruise still worth the cruise cost? Pretty simple decision here. And oh, by the way, non-subscribers are not paying for my alcohol and my wifi even if I drink a gallon of booze a day and use unlimited talk, text and data and they use nothing. I'm paying my own way, thank you. 

 

Also, lots of folks still want to call it all-inclusive....why? Seems to me that if they are that confused and/or uncertain, then X is not the place for them at this time. Can't have a fun cruise if you are concerned about being ripped off.  

 

Finally, whether or not I drink alcohol, use wifi or give gratuities, the price to cruise on an X boat with AI is not too expensive. Thank you.

 

I am not a bot!

Edited May 1, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[davekathy]

28 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

This is really the "fun" period for experienced cruisers.  We have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, and then compare and select the one that we deem best for our personal situation.  Note, even we unexperienced cruisers have the ability to review offers, prices and costs, then select the one we deem best for our personal situation.  For me Celebrity always wins, then again I do not look elsewhere, the floating amusements parks do nothing for me.

We enjoy the differences and the similarities between RC and Celebrity. Not all RC ships are floating amusement parks. The RC ships we cruise on (nothing larger than the Freedom class and the Radiance class are our favorite class of ships at 90,000 GT) aren't floating amusement parks. We would like to see RC go with bundled perks options for the CBP, Gratuities, OBC and WiFi like Celebrity use to do before the AI (Always Included) concept. We'll continue to book with Celebrity, AI or not. IMO, the CBP and the gratuities is OK by us as an AI. We would prefer the OBC over the WiFi as we always stay disconnected and don't use anywhere close to the 180 internet minutes we currently receive. Oh well like Meatloaf sang, "two outta three ain't bad". 😉

Edited May 1, 2021 by davekathy

[iancal]

We have been on enough cruises and and stayed at enough AI resorts to know that we do not eat more because of a buffet or drink more because of an open bar.   

 

There is a point of greatly  diminishing returns for us.

[Denny01]

For those that are bemoaning paying for AI because you don’t drink anything but tap water, don’t ever get on the internet (well, except right this minute), sneak down and get your gratuites removed, only eat hamburgers at the grill, and call business profit ‘greed’, I just read a great article for you:

 

Cruise News Today reports Two non-profits are starting cruise lines!!

 

Goodwill will start cruising sometime in late 2021. You’ll bring your suitcases full of clothes on board and donate them, and then each day go to the ship thrift shop and buy discounted clothes from previous cruisers! 

 

Salvation Army will start cruising in early 2022. The entertainment will be excellent bands playing ‘Nearer, My God to Thee’ over and over during North Atlantic crossings, serving good soup in lines on the Son Deck, and you’ll just love the theater presentations….all must attend.

 

So just give it a few months and the cruise prices will be much better!!

 

Den

[LGW59]

51 minutes ago, davekathy said:

We enjoy the differences and the similarities between RC and Celebrity. Not all RC ships are floating amusement parks. The RC ships we cruise on (nothing larger than the Freedom class and the Radiance class are our favorite class of ships at 90,000 GT) aren't floating amusement parks. We would like to see RC go with bundled perks options for the CBP, Gratuities, OBC and WiFi like Celebrity use to do before the AI (Always Included) concept. We'll continue to book with Celebrity, AI or not. IMO, the CBP and the gratuities is OK by us as an AI. We would prefer the OBC over the WiFi as we always stay disconnected and don't use anywhere close to the 180 internet minutes we currently receive. Oh well like Meatloaf sang, "two outta three ain't bad". 😉

My only point was that one need not be an "experienced" cruiser, to have experienced cruising, we all have the ability to review prices etc, regardless of how many or few times we have cruised.

Edited May 1, 2021 by LGW59

[davekathy]

18 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

My only point was that one need not be an "experienced" cruiser, to have experienced cruising, we all have the ability to review prices etc, regardless of how many or few times we have cruised.

I didn't say or imply I disagreed with that idea. I do it all the time. No matter the product we're interested in. My only point was commenting on your assumption and lack of experiences with RC, their ships and product. My post is based on our RC experiences not what I have read on CC or what I have been told. Positive or negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by davekathy

[Spif Barwunkel]

Take AI away, leave the current cruise prices as is with ala carte pricing for extras. The naysayers would have no problem whatsoever. Psychologically, they would not be getting ripped off. Simple, they will flock to the cruising cash registers.

[Spif Barwunkel]

45 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

For those that are bemoaning paying for AI because you don’t drink anything but tap water, don’t ever get on the internet (well, except right this minute), sneak down and get your gratuites removed, only eat hamburgers at the grill, and call business profit ‘greed’, I just read a great article for you:

 

Cruise News Today reports Two non-profits are starting cruise lines!!

 

Goodwill will start cruising sometime in late 2021. You’ll bring your suitcases full of clothes on board and donate them, and then each day go to the ship thrift shop and buy discounted clothes from previous cruisers! 

 

Salvation Army will start cruising in early 2022. The entertainment will be excellent bands playing ‘Nearer, My God to Thee’ over and over during North Atlantic crossings, serving good soup in lines on the Son Deck, and you’ll just love the theater presentations….all must attend.

 

So just give it a few months and the cruise prices will be much better!!

 

Den

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[cruiselvr04]

We are Diamond plus on Royal and have kept coming back because we enjoyed the product.  Great shows, decent food and it felt like coming home after over 40 cruises. We knew what to pack, where to put it and the DH could quit asking where something was because he knew.  The ships were mostly similar in lay out, we loved the lounge in the early evening but we never got the drink package as it’s outrageous for what we consume.

 

We were so looking forward to Celebrity but they have cancelled 2 of our cruises and now the prices are much higher.  After trying a river cruise with Viking we realized it may be time to try more lines.  I’m sure Celebrity will be next but we’re not ruling out Viking since the cost is not that much higher and some basic excursions are included.  I wouldn’t spend a lot more to go to the Caribbean but other destinations may certainly be worth it.  While we do look at the bottom line we also do comparisons in value.  There are other mainstream lines we are not interested in repeating.  
 

I’m hoping Celebrity doesn’t get any higher but I do like the all inclusiveness. That’s part of what we like about cruising.  

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, cruiselvr04 said:

We are Diamond plus on Royal and have kept coming back because we enjoyed the product.  Great shows, decent food and it felt like coming home after over 40 cruises. We knew what to pack, where to put it and the DH could quit asking where something was because he knew.  The ships were mostly similar in lay out, we loved the lounge in the early evening but we never got the drink package as it’s outrageous for what we consume.

 

We were so looking forward to Celebrity but they have cancelled 2 of our cruises and now the prices are much higher.  After trying a river cruise with Viking we realized it may be time to try more lines.  I’m sure Celebrity will be next but we’re not ruling out Viking since the cost is not that much higher and some basic excursions are included.  I wouldn’t spend a lot more to go to the Caribbean but other destinations may certainly be worth it.  While we do look at the bottom line we also do comparisons in value.  There are other mainstream lines we are not interested in repeating.  
 

I’m hoping Celebrity doesn’t get any higher but I do like the all inclusiveness. That’s part of what we like about cruising.  

Absolutely, the easy feeling knowing that once on board, drinks - covered, tips - covered, WiFi - covered.  And unless specialty dining (of course OBC can take care of that) is your thing - all food covered whether in MDR, Blu or Luminae, as well as what will soon be known as formerly the buffet

[HMR74]

Anybody remember "Jimmy the Greek" on CBS years ago handicapping the NFL games?

He would take the mostly objective issues and see who was ahead or behind, then toss in the subjecting intangibles, to get to a pick.

 

Most all of our shopping is done that way including Cruising -you compare pricing and that's objective--and then the final pick is subjective based on what that intangible is along with the price differential.

 

Calling Celebrity is not going to change anything. What will change their marketing strategy is if  the important numbers go down they may revert a bit but if their important  numbers go up , they will do more of whatever it was. As I stated earlier they will soon know how much new statistical  drinking the AI has created or not. They also knew from before who did not buy a package and how much they drank (and what they drank) and also for those who bought the classic and or premium package.

 

I'd be surprised if they did not  know what we tend to eat and what time we tend to dine. That data probably goes into a scatter diagram of sorts so they know the overall tendencies of passengers.

They are running a business and they need information to run it right which I hope they do as that means our cruising experience is good. Speaking of that, I hardly see "X" ships with a lot of gambling occurring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LGW59]

7 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Waiting for 19.9cents/gallon for premium to return...  Last paid that in Texas during college during a "gas war."

Remember when if your license plate number ended in either and odd or even number determined which day of the week you could fill the gas tank

[NantahalaCruiser]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

While this is true to an extent, most do have some kind of "line" regarding what is fair vs. unfair. 

 

It is very hard for me to justify the extra charge levied on solo passengers under the new AI plan. I can see the rationale of double-charging for a cabin. But to penalize solo travelers to the extent that we are paying for TWO sets of drinks and TWO sets of gratuities is two steps beyond that line for me.

Don't know anything about their pricing, but have you looked into the E-class single cabins? Perhaps they do not charge double and the net cabin space is about the same as that of a regular double cabin when you take into account the difference in the space taken up by a twin bed rather than a double bed.

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Remember when if your license plate number ended in either and odd or even number determined which day of the week you could fill the gas tank

That was the 70s.  You are a youngster!

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

That was the 70s.  You are a youngster!

OK I now love you the most and you have been added to my personal complimentary purchase of an AI beverage, Ipeeinthepool, Trulyblonde (she gets two complementary), Denny will be joining us you are more than welcome.  Though I am still trying to decide whether to do it on an odd or even day...

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

OK I now love you the most and you have been added to my personal complimentary purchase of an AI beverage, Ipeeinthepool, Trulyblonde (she gets two complementary), Denny will be joining us you are more than welcome.  Though I am still trying to decide whether to do it on an odd or even day...

The challenge was vanity plates not having numbers...  Odd or even?  Or both?

[davekathy]

11 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Waiting for 19.9cents/gallon for premium to return...  Last paid that in Texas during college during a "gas war."

A real eye opener for me was when I returned back to the world from Vietnam and saw gas at almost $1.00 a gallon for regular. 😲

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Don't know anything about their pricing, but have you looked into the E-class single cabins? Perhaps they do not charge double and the net cabin space is about the same as that of a regular double cabin when you take into account the difference in the space taken up by a twin bed rather than a double bed.

 

Thanks -- I only recently discovered that the E-class ships had single cabins. I will check it out in future -- but I have to confess that I prefer smaller ships to larger ones.

 

[naturelovergirl]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:21 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Gotcha, never been on a Royal Ship...I am looking at the cruise out of Nassau this summer, it overnights in CocoCay.  

We visited the newly enhanced CocoCay in 2019 on Mariner Of The Seas.

We had a great day! 
We did not pay for the new slides and water park section.

We instead reserved a cabana on the beach as a family, which was relaxing and a good central spot for all of us... also loved the new pool area with the swim up bar.

[lovetocruise1953]

14 hours ago, Denny01 said:

For those that are bemoaning paying for AI because you don’t drink anything but tap water, don’t ever get on the internet (well, except right this minute), sneak down and get your gratuites removed, only eat hamburgers at the grill, and call business profit ‘greed’, I just read a great article for you:

 

Cruise News Today reports Two non-profits are starting cruise lines!!

 

Goodwill will start cruising sometime in late 2021. You’ll bring your suitcases full of clothes on board and donate them, and then each day go to the ship thrift shop and buy discounted clothes from previous cruisers! 

 

Salvation Army will start cruising in early 2022. The entertainment will be excellent bands playing ‘Nearer, My God to Thee’ over and over during North Atlantic crossings, serving good soup in lines on the Son Deck, and you’ll just love the theater presentations….all must attend.

 

So just give it a few months and the cruise prices will be much better!!

 

Den

Wow, I would love a thrift shop on a cruise....................

[HMR74]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

And could not those reasonable people collectively thinking "unfair" choose to spend their money elsewhere?  That is the only way to get Celebrity to listen.  Letters and posts will have no effect if their ships are filling up even with the "mis-step".  Sorry I am not trying to be difficult but only money talks.  And you have choices.

 

this goes back to my lowest common denominator comment--you can please some of the people some or most of the time, but not all the people all the time.

 

if 2800 people on a ship want specific custom treatment, it ain't gonna happen.

 

It's one of those iron clad rules of life.

 

And if this AI  program is successful for Celebrity, measured by overall  occupancy levels and income, it will search for ways to expand the premium perception (just by packaging it differently, not actually providing more service-increased demand =higher prices). And if it is not successful, they back off and come in a different way to raise profits.

 

Just to be certain everybody knows, the #1 goal of a business is to make money. Regardless if it goes hi end, mid or low end in terms of amenities. Searching for that "sweet spot". somewhere in the mix is a high % of customer satisfaction.

 

Quality (or lack thereof) is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by HMR74

[Denny01]

And those who will not cruise on X because they don’t want to pay for what they don’t use, quite legit. But if you think that will adversely impact X and make a change, realize there will be more than a few RCL / NCL / Carnival / etc cruisers who realize they save money by cruising on X with AI instead of paying for all the packages or paying by-drink. 

 

And yes, there is a cruise out there that will be cheaper than some X cruise with the additions added. Go for it, and I bet/hope you’ll enjoy the new line you select. I’ve not been on any cruise that I disliked. A few I’d not do again, but….

 

Den

[Denny01]

1 minute ago, HMR74 said:

 

……Quality (or lack thereof) is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

 

 

This is a very perceptive statement. Well said. 

 

Den