All inclusive. Not really. Expensive, YES!

[Denny01]

If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary, does that mean we won’t be showing even our cards for standard drinks? Will the waitstaff/bartenders just be asking what we want and pour it? And once they serve us, will they top that glass of wine off as you sip away?

 

we did a cruise on Crystal to see what an inclusive cruse would be like and it was very nice to be sitting there, sipping my wine and the waiter walking up with the wine and asking if I wanted a refill/top off. It really was neat in a bar/lounge and in the dining area. Just think, ‘No dear, I only had one glass of wine!’…..the ‘one glass’ would be a pitcher! 

 

Of course if you upgrade, you’ll be breaking out your card and so on, but I hope the above is how its done. Not sure if Celebrity will want to ‘track’ what each of us I imbibing, or if a card for non-charge will still be used, but we’ll all see I guess. With drink packages, we showed our cards and that took only once in a venue and they remembered. 

 

Good question for those cruising early on!

 

Den 

[FlyerTalker]

3 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

You may not like it but the good reason for AI and increased prices is increased revenue for the company.  They will continue along these lines until there actual revenue decreases if they lose market share.  Then you will see changes.

 

There are a number of other "good reasons".  Among the highest is that the shutdown of cruiselines has given companies the opportunity to take a pause and "redefine" where each of their brands stand in terms of the market continuum.

 

Ditching Azamara and picking up Silversea has left RCL with three distinct grades of cruising.

 

Royal Caribbean -- Mass market commodity line

Celebrity -- Upscale large ship cruising

Silversea -- Luxury smaller ship cruising

 

One significant principle of marketing is that you don't cannibalize your own brands.  GM was guilty of this when it had Chevrolet, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac and Saturn.  Too much overlap and similarity.  Now they have Chevrolet for basic, Buick for upscale and Cadillac for luxury.

 

IMO, RCL needed to move Celebrity away from the traditional mass market lines and move it closer to Silversea.  In doing so, it may have offended those Celebrity cruisers who liked "Royal Caribbean Plus".  OTOH, it now is well positioned for those who want that upscale inclusive cruise without either the small ship or price of Silversea.

[mayleeman]

19 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

shall I be upset because my meals would 'potentially' cost less on a per serving basis than those who do?

 

Again, not a fair comparison unless they took away a previously available lower cost vegan menu, or (more on point) charged you and everyone else a new higher price to provide meat eaters extra meat they alone previously had to pay for. 

 

I will back away from the "subsidy" term since it now seems overwhelmingly to get caught up in government subsizing a business (tax exemptions, etc) or market sector (like milk price supports) or economic class (low-income welfare benefits, etc). We learned it in a more general way back in the early 1970s, when IIRC there was a lot more attention to private pricing practices. Cost shifting? Price shifting? The point is some people are now having to pay for something the cruiseline didn't charge them for and which they do not receive, in order to provide a level of profit. That service, or those goods, get consumed by some but are paid for by all, and that is a lamentable change. 

[davekathy]

10 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary, does that mean we won’t be showing even our cards for standard drinks? Will the waitstaff/bartenders just be asking what we want and pour it? And once they serve us, will they top that glass of wine off as you sip away?

 

we did a cruise on Crystal to see what an inclusive cruse would be like and it was very nice to be sitting there, sipping my wine and the waiter walking up with the wine and asking if I wanted a refill/top off. It really was neat in a bar/lounge and in the dining area. Just think, ‘No dear, I only had one glass of wine!’…..the ‘one glass’ would be a pitcher! 

 

Of course if you upgrade, you’ll be breaking out your card and so on, but I hope the above is how its done. Not sure if Celebrity will want to ‘track’ what each of us I imbibing, or if a card for non-charge will still be used, but we’ll all see I guess. With drink packages, we showed our cards and that took only once in a venue and they remembered. 

 

Good question for those cruising early on!

 

Den 

 

Our past experiences has been, when we use to get the CBP as a bundled option we both had to show our Seapass cards for every order at the bars/lounges. No continuous pours for wine.  In the MDR we only had to show our Seapass cards once (each evening) and the sommeliers always kept our glasses full. 🍷

Edited May 5, 2021 by davekathy

[tfred]

8 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary, does that mean we won’t be showing even our cards for standard drinks? Will the waitstaff/bartenders just be asking what we want and pour it? And once they serve us, will they top that glass of wine off as you sip away?

 

we did a cruise on Crystal to see what an inclusive cruse would be like and it was very nice to be sitting there, sipping my wine and the waiter walking up with the wine and asking if I wanted a refill/top off. It really was neat in a bar/lounge and in the dining area. Just think, ‘No dear, I only had one glass of wine!’…..the ‘one glass’ would be a pitcher! 

 

Of course if you upgrade, you’ll be breaking out your card and so on, but I hope the above is how its done. Not sure if Celebrity will want to ‘track’ what each of us I imbibing, or if a card for non-charge will still be used, but we’ll all see I guess. With drink packages, we showed our cards and that took only once in a venue and they remembered. 

 

Good question for those cruising early on!

 

Den 

we did a few Crystal River cruises and loved the walk up to the bar and order whatever concept.  

 

X will have the problem with suite guests and PBP purchases vs the Classic package.  That would cause you to ID your room

[davekathy]

1 minute ago, tfred said:

we did a few Crystal River cruises and loved the walk up to the bar and order whatever concept.  

 

X will have the problem with suite guests and PBP purchases vs the Classic package.  That would cause you to ID your room

You don't have to be in a suite to have the PBP. 

[tfred]

Just now, davekathy said:

You don't have to be in a suite to have the PBP. 

true - but I should have stated that suite gets premium or if in any other category they can upgrade their AI Classic to Premium

[HMR74]

5 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary, does that mean we won’t be showing even our cards for standard drinks? Will the waitstaff/bartenders just be asking what we want and pour it? And once they serve us, will they top that glass of wine off as you sip away?

 

we did a cruise on Crystal to see what an inclusive cruse would be like and it was very nice to be sitting there, sipping my wine and the waiter walking up with the wine and asking if I wanted a refill/top off. It really was neat in a bar/lounge and in the dining area. Just think, ‘No dear, I only had one glass of wine!’…..the ‘one glass’ would be a pitcher! 

 

Of course if you upgrade, you’ll be breaking out your card and so on, but I hope the above is how its done. Not sure if Celebrity will want to ‘track’ what each of us I imbibing, or if a card for non-charge will still be used, but we’ll all see I guess. With drink packages, we showed our cards and that took only once in a venue and they remembered. 

 

Good question for those cruising early on!

 

Den 

I believe They still need the data for who drinks what.

and still need the cards to prove you have the premium plan.

That data will tell them a lot in trends going all ways, and the future is dependent on how they interpret the data.

 

I agree sometimes the bar tender may forget to enter info, but in many instances, the server in dining rooms (easier in Luminae and Blu) will remember the diner  and know what to do at the computer because that's also control over how loosey goosey the crew is with serving drinks (ie, if 200 people just want one drink at dinner, why fill it to the top and "waste" that 5%--which across a fleet is a lot of dollars of profit fleet wise. Not to mention if exceptions are made, they have to find a way to indicate there is enforcement. It may be like an empty cop car at the side of the road to keep everybody in check.

 

complicated but fascinating business.

 

 

[davekathy]

6 minutes ago, tfred said:

true - but I should have stated that suite gets premium or if in any other category they can upgrade their AI Classic to Premium

Agree. 

[PTC DAWG]

27 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary, does that mean we won’t be showing even our cards for standard drinks? Will the waitstaff/bartenders just be asking what we want and pour it? And once they serve us, will they top that glass of wine off as you sip away?

 

we did a cruise on Crystal to see what an inclusive cruse would be like and it was very nice to be sitting there, sipping my wine and the waiter walking up with the wine and asking if I wanted a refill/top off. It really was neat in a bar/lounge and in the dining area. Just think, ‘No dear, I only had one glass of wine!’…..the ‘one glass’ would be a pitcher! 

 

Of course if you upgrade, you’ll be breaking out your card and so on, but I hope the above is how its done. Not sure if Celebrity will want to ‘track’ what each of us I imbibing, or if a card for non-charge will still be used, but we’ll all see I guess. With drink packages, we showed our cards and that took only once in a venue and they remembered. 

 

Good question for those cruising early on!

 

Den 

They may need to see cards for a while, I have a lift and shift cruise that was booked under the older program....it did include classic beverage, but the line has no way of knowing that without my cruise card. This cruise doesn't sail until March of 22.  Come to think of it, I also have a Southern Caribbean booked on Equinox for Fall of 22, also booked under the older program...

Edited May 5, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[HskrCrsr]

I notice that much of the discussion (not all) regarding AI and paying for drinks one does not want centers on alcohol. Celebrity's response to this is basically that everyone drinks something so let's just charge up front:

Can guests request a non-alcoholic drinks package if an individual guest does not drink alcohol or is under the legal drinking age?

Our beverage packages include a wide variety of alcoholic and non-alcoholic options including specialty coffee, fresh squeezed juices, bottled water, sports drinks and soda.  All guests can choose beverages of their choice, with or without alcohol.  Guests under the legal drinking age will only be eligible for non-alcoholic beverages.

People who cannot drink alcohol due to age or condition, or just don't want to, can still utilize the drink package to the extent that Celebrity feels justified in charging for it. I am not defending this, just pointing out that Celebrity did this with full knowledge of how passengers would react.

 

I will opine that since AI includes only the Classic Bev Package, and only covers drinks up to $9, someone who drinks alcohol is not paying for someone else's frou-frou coffee any more than the opposite. Someone who drinks only water is paying through the nose regardless and does not really contribute (or pay for) someone's alcohol - they are just overpaying for water as always. People wanting more expensive drinks are paying for that with the upgrade charge, so their drinks are not paid for by others.

 

Expensive internet is a whole other kettle of fish, IMHO, since not everyone uses it or a substitute (vs everyone drinking something). Again, not defending AI, just putting my opinion out there.

 

And while I am doing that, let me point out that this is Cruise Critic. Being helpful to others to the exclusion of yelling at the cruise lines seems antithetical. 

[mayleeman]

I wonder how many people will end up finding they do want to use the internet far more than they did before being connected so much in lockdown?

[Oceangoer2]

56 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

IMO, RCL needed to move Celebrity away from the traditional mass market lines and move it closer to Silversea.  In doing so, it may have offended those Celebrity cruisers who liked "Royal Caribbean Plus".  OTOH, it now is well positioned for those who want that upscale inclusive cruise without either the small ship or price of Silversea.

I hope this 'break' from cruising has given X the time to adjust aspects of our cruising experience if, as you say, they're trying to move closer to Silversea and away from RCL.  This includes enhancing the 'luxury' marketing promotions we've bought into over the past few years.  Improved menus, meal preparation and presentation, service with less diners.  Less crowding in all areas.  May be short lived as profit is the goal which is understandable.  I've always enjoyed my X cruise,  but in the short term I expect to enjoy my cruise somewhat more than in the past.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Oceangoer2

[HskrCrsr]

14 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

I wonder how many people will end up finding they do want to use the internet far more than they did before being connected so much in lockdown?

 

I think that is an excellent point, and having it provided whether you want it or not will probably result in some finding it to be a positive change. Not all, but some. COVID has changed how we do things at home and we will carry some of those changes aboard.

[Fouremco]

46 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

They may need to see cards for a while, I have a lift and shift cruise that was booked under the older program....it did include classic beverage, but the line has no way of knowing that without my cruise card. This cruise doesn't sail until March of 22.  Come to think of it, I also have a Southern Caribbean booked on Equinox for Fall of 22, also booked under the older program...

I agree with you, for the reasons stated. In this case, however,  @Denny01 specified "If Celebrity has the AI for all passengers on a set itinerary". Like you, we have an old pre-AI booking with CBP perk that was L&S'd to next year, and it might be some time before all passengers onboard a cruise will have AI.

[Ride-The-Waves]

4 hours ago, Denny01 said:

Under the old Navy articles, “Rocks and Shoals”, you would be flogged, And justly So!!! A crime against Humanity…..well, against me! 

 

Den

That was just for rum...

[Ride-The-Waves]

4 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Do you only drink the free ice water offered?  Maybe the tea/coffee and lemonade offered in the buffet/MDR?  

 

IF you do, you have more control than me on vacation.  🙂

We each may have 3 drinks during a cruise...  A pina colada maybe.  No wine with dinner.  Not against it - just don't do it.  See no need.  That said, after flopping around on CC may need to start drinking more...

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

There are a number of other "good reasons".  Among the highest is that the shutdown of cruiselines has given companies the opportunity to take a pause and "redefine" where each of their brands stand in terms of the market continuum.

 

Ditching Azamara and picking up Silversea has left RCL with three distinct grades of cruising.

 

Royal Caribbean -- Mass market commodity line

Celebrity -- Upscale large ship cruising

Silversea -- Luxury smaller ship cruising

 

One significant principle of marketing is that you don't cannibalize your own brands.  GM was guilty of this when it had Chevrolet, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac and Saturn.  Too much overlap and similarity.  Now they have Chevrolet for basic, Buick for upscale and Cadillac for luxury.

 

IMO, RCL needed to move Celebrity away from the traditional mass market lines and move it closer to Silversea.  In doing so, it may have offended those Celebrity cruisers who liked "Royal Caribbean Plus".  OTOH, it now is well positioned for those who want that upscale inclusive cruise without either the small ship or price of Silversea.

I quite agree.  GM originally had distinct brand identities and a clear path upward for customers [well, not with Saturn, but with the original five brands].  IMHO there are three cruise lines that need to have their identities tweaked:  Celebrity, Princess and Holland America.  Both groups have a clear entry-level offering, and a clear luxury offering.  But it seems too crowded to fit two brands in between.  Now that RCG has spun off Azamara, Celebrity can move away from Royal and closer to Silversea.  CCL still has to figure out how to market both Princess and HAL so I would expect big changes to both of them (or a merger).

[basenji56]

1 hour ago, HskrCrsr said:

I notice that much of the discussion (not all) regarding AI and paying for drinks one does not want centers on alcohol. Celebrity's response to this is basically that everyone drinks something so let's just charge up front:

Can guests request a non-alcoholic drinks package if an individual guest does not drink alcohol or is under the legal drinking age?

Our beverage packages include a wide variety of alcoholic and non-alcoholic options including specialty coffee, fresh squeezed juices, bottled water, sports drinks and soda.  All guests can choose beverages of their choice, with or without alcohol.  Guests under the legal drinking age will only be eligible for non-alcoholic beverages.

People who cannot drink alcohol due to age or condition, or just don't want to, can still utilize the drink package to the extent that Celebrity feels justified in charging for it. I am not defending this, just pointing out that Celebrity did this with full knowledge of how passengers would react.

 

I will opine that since AI includes only the Classic Bev Package, and only covers drinks up to $9, someone who drinks alcohol is not paying for someone else's frou-frou coffee any more than the opposite. Someone who drinks only water is paying through the nose regardless and does not really contribute (or pay for) someone's alcohol - they are just overpaying for water as always. People wanting more expensive drinks are paying for that with the upgrade charge, so their drinks are not paid for by others.

 

I recently booked a cruise with the AI pricing. (My Travel Agent also has prices without AI but in this case, the AI was a better deal).  I don't drink alcohol but do drink specialty coffees and sodas. 

 

I sure wish that sparkling water (Perrier etc) was included in the basic drinks package but it apparently is not.  I can get around that by ordering club soda but still.  

 

I wonder how busy Il Bacio is going to be now that almost everyone can order specialty coffees.

 

[HskrCrsr]

3 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I recently booked a cruise with the AI pricing. (My Travel Agent also has prices without AI but in this case, the AI was a better deal).  I don't drink alcohol but do drink specialty coffees and sodas. 

 

I sure wish that sparkling water (Perrier etc) was included in the basic drinks package but it apparently is not.  I can get around that by ordering club soda but still.  

 

I wonder how busy Il Bacio is going to be now that almost everyone can order specialty coffees.

 

 

Good question on Il Bacio. My guess would be that anyone that wanted that coffee already NEEDED that coffee, so I wonder if there will be any change at all. I know in my house there was never any settling for lesser coffee.

[JeanieC,Aston]

“The point is some people are now having to pay for something the cruiseline didn't charge them for and which they do not receive, in order to provide a level of profit. That service, or those goods, get consumed by some but are paid for by all, and that is a lamentable change”

Thanks Myleemen

Exactly,,,why are some posters finding it so hard to understand this.

Edited May 5, 2021 by JeanieC,Aston

[LGW59]

11 minutes ago, JeanieC,Aston said:

“The point is some people are now having to pay for something the cruiseline didn't charge them for and which they do not receive, in order to provide a level of profit. That service, or those goods, get consumed by some but are paid for by all, and that is a lamentable change”

Thanks Myleemen

Exactly,,,why are some posters finding it so hard to understand this.

I believe most understand it but at the same time accept it, we will wait and see what transpires once cruising truly resumes.

[Denny01]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I believe most understand it but at the same time accept it, we will wait and see what transpires once cruising truly resumes.

It will for sure……X will add an included one night dining at a specialty restaurant to the existing AI and up the SR prices! I just can’t wait for those posts!

 

Den

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

It will for sure……X will add an included one night dining at a specialty restaurant to the existing AI and up the SR prices! I just can’t wait for those posts!

 

Den

LOL, I look forward to them as well...the Celebrity suite life is already getting to you, right on!!

Edited May 5, 2021 by LGW59

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

It will for sure……X will add an included one night dining at a specialty restaurant to the existing AI and up the SR prices! I just can’t wait for those posts!

 

Den

Don't laugh.  Silversea has added included shore excursions and jacked up the prices.  By making Silversea even more expensive, that gives them more room to up the ante on Celebrity.