Freedom Venues Vaccinated/Unvaccinated Rules Spelled Out

[coffeebean]

12 hours ago, J9sling said:

Total speculation without evidence. My friend just came off of a 14 day quarantine because her kids contracted COVID at church camp 3 weeks ago and infected both her and her husband (both are unvaccinated). 40 kids got the virus at this church camp and the spread was so bad that the church closed for 2 weeks. The kids were fine, as typical with COVID, but one parent was in the hospital for a week and several were very ill. Looks like kids DO transmit COVID and if you aren’t vaccinated and around them you are vulnerable. 

Agree with above, especially with the Delta variant in circulation.

[coffeebean]

11 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

I'm vaccinated, and will be sailing on one of these cruises. I do not mind.

There you go......one vote for the vaxxed to wear masks in many areas on the ship. Royal better hope there are more of you.

[coffeebean]

11 hours ago, Thenagers said:

These are safety protocols. 

Hmmm.........safety protocols vs discrimination during a global pandemic. Yup......seems like safety protocols to me.

[coffeebean]

11 hours ago, forgotmyCCname said:

I cannot find an actual Royal reference to this. Folks will be clamoring for early boarding positions; turning a family or 30 away the day of sailing is not realistic especially since they will have had their Covid tests. 
 

 

Did I say Royal was doing this????? If I did then "my bad".

 

Royal is NOT doing this. This is the strategy the cruise lines that are sailing 95/100% vaxxed. Royal is allowing UNLIMITED amount of unvaxxed on their ships. This is the reason Royal did those test cruises; so they do not have to sail with a high percentage of vaxxed.

[coffeebean]

10 hours ago, zekekelso said:

Don’t be ridiculous*. Why would anybody leave New York to go to Pittsburgh?

* read with your best Balki voice

I believe this whole line of discussion started out as "tongue in cheek". We all know that Las Vegas is not accessible by cruise ship. It was just a joke. LOL.

[coffeebean]

10 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

I think my point is being confused, so I clearly didn't express it very well. They are, by definition, discriminating against the unvaccinated, and I'm pointing out people saying otherwise are just factually incorrect. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with discriminating. It's a perfectly natural thing. Discriminating against someone based on certain, specific things is illegal. This isn't one of those things. I have absolutely no problem with the cruise lines treating unvaccinated passengers differently than vaccinated passengers. Yes, it is by definition discrimination. And that's perfectly ok.

OK, I get your point and I most certainly do agree.

[Roger88]

26 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Not to be off topic but the Surfside collapse is so tragic. My thoughts go out to all affected.  And yes, I have noticed that the press conferences include a lot of the Florida elected officials. Cruising is not a priority right now in Miami-Dade County. 

It wont matter at all who will be in power in who they will elect. What is important is that no matter who comes in power will try to follow the rules and regulations of the person before him. Unfortunatly, this is how it is right now 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

10 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

I think my point is being confused, so I clearly didn't express it very well. They are, by definition, discriminating against the unvaccinated, and I'm pointing out people saying otherwise are just factually incorrect. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with discriminating. It's a perfectly natural thing. Discriminating against someone based on certain, specific things is illegal. This isn't one of those things. I have absolutely no problem with the cruise lines treating unvaccinated passengers differently than vaccinated passengers. Yes, it is by definition discrimination. And that's perfectly ok.

What about adults who cant have the vaccine for medical reasons?

 

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability. 

 

I would argue stopping someone from doing something based on something out of their control (no vaccine for medical reasons or children under 12) and making parents of children mingle with those adults who refuse a vaccine is putting said adults and children at risk. And is discrimination. 

 

The un vacc adults have a choice the children and medically exempt do not

[RedIguana]

18 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Might want to take your own advice.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination

"the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually."

 

This is, by definition, discrimination. It's treating people differently based on the category they are in, unvaccinated, not based on any individual attribute. It's just not discriminating against a protected class, (ie race), therefore it is completely legal. Discrimination is not inherently wrong, despite the negative connotation many between assume to be meant anytime the word is used.

Please reread your own statement. Vaccination vs unvaccinated is not a Category, it is an individual trait. 

[livingonthebeach]

42 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Not to be off topic but the Surfside collapse is so tragic. My thoughts go out to all affected.  And yes, I have noticed that the press conferences include a lot of the Florida elected officials. Cruising is not a priority right now in Miami-Dade County. 

 

Thank you. It is indeed a tragic event and one that personally affects me as I have a friend underneath that rubble and live in a high-rise on the same barrier island.  It will also affect everyone who has property on the ocean, to some degree. As it will take many resources and time to get to the bottom of what caused it, I don't believe cruise line protocols are of any major concern to the State of Florida at the moment. 

[BSocial]

23 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

What about adults who cant have the vaccine for medical reasons?

 

The un vacc adults have a choice the children and medically exempt do not

Sure they do.  My family loves to cruise, but if one of us were medically unable to get the COVID vaccine, we  would not choose a cruise vacation at this time.   That would be our choice 
 

We would not put our family member at risk on a cruise ship, or at ports where COVID may be flourishing.  
 

Edited June 29, 2021 by BSocial

[ZoeyVictoria]

16 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

What about adults who cant have the vaccine for medical reasons?

 

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability. 

 

I would argue stopping someone from doing something based on something out of their control (no vaccine for medical reasons or children under 12) and making parents of children mingle with those adults who refuse a vaccine is putting said adults and children at risk. And is discrimination. 

 

The un vacc adults have a choice the children and medically exempt do not

I wonder if the people who are medically exempt from the vaccine due to something out of their control could safely weather a COVID infection?  Or would they be wise to avoid putting themselves in any situation where they are likely to be exposed?  The risks of travel involve much more than the time spent on a ship.

[coffeebean]

10 hours ago, Heymarco said:

So what’s it like on the 95% cruises? Hopefully kids don’t have to wear a mask? Nothing stranger than a healthy two year old forced to wear a mask onboard a ship of fully vaccinated healthy people without masks. But I digress as logic, reason, and tolerable risk have long since flew out the window.

There is no guarantee that "healthy two year old" is really healthy. We all know at any given time a Covid test can come back negative but the individual is actually infected but not enough for that test result to be positive. Wait a few days and that same person will test positive. That is what happened with those two teenagers just recently on the Adventure OTS.

[PTC DAWG]

53 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

There you go......one vote for the vaxxed to wear masks in many areas on the ship. Royal better hope there are more of you.

I'm sailing Allure in Sept..no way do I think the vaccinated need to be masked up in many areas of the ship.  

[PTC DAWG]

9 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I wonder if the people who are medically exempt from the vaccine due to something out of their control could safely weather a COVID infection?  Or would they be wise to avoid putting themselves in any situation where they are likely to be exposed?  The risks of travel involve much more than the time spent on a ship.

Agree with this take totally....

[sandebeach]

18 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thank you. It is indeed a tragic event and one that personally affects me as I have a friend underneath that rubble and live in a high-rise on the same barrier island.  It will also affect everyone who has property on the ocean, to some degree. As it will take many resources and time to get to the bottom of what caused it, I don't believe cruise line protocols are of any major concern to the State of Florida at the moment. 

My thoughts are with you, your friend and the family. 

[exm]

Once again, CDC numbers clearly state that the younger the child, the less likely it's a carrier of COVID. It seems that for some reason COVID can't penetrate younger kids' cells so in effect younger kids are also immune. Royal should differentiate between age rangers for kids. And yes, this is science that can be found directly on the CDC website.

[Russ Lomas]

12 hours ago, coffeebean said:

With no proof of vaccination, the person is considered un-vaxxed. The pool for un-vaxxed is a maximum of 5%. Once the 5% is reached, un-vaxxed people can not board the ship.

Seems simple enough but you can only imagine the scene those not permitted on the ship after travelling across the country or possibly the world and then being denied at the gangway.  I think RCCL is smarter than this and will be "selecting" (no idea how they choose to do this though) prior to people heading to the port that they will not be allowed on the ship since the 95% threshold had been reached and that is the risk that those who are unvaccinated will have to understand.  This seems very unfair to those who will be denied, and I feel for those individuals, but RCCL needs to ensure that there are no major outbreaks aboard if they want to continue to operate.

[MommaBear55]

19 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I'm sailing Allure in Sept..no way do I think the vaccinated need to be masked up in many areas of the ship.  

How do you feel about the vaccinated having to wear masks in airports and on airplanes? It's not much different

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

What about adults who cant have the vaccine for medical reasons?

 

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability. 

 

I would argue stopping someone from doing something based on something out of their control (no vaccine for medical reasons or children under 12) and making parents of children mingle with those adults who refuse a vaccine is putting said adults and children at risk. And is discrimination. 

 

The un vacc adults have a choice the children and medically exempt do not

Unvaccinated is unvaccinated. I hear your concerns about unvaccinated children being exposed to possible infection, but this is a parental choice. You are deciding to expose your child in a number of situations on and off the ship.  If they are not age eligible for the vaccine and parental concern is that great then do not sail. The cruise line is doing what it can to prevent the possible spread of infection with numerous protocols and applying them to most everyone.
 

I hope that all of the parents here that are criticizing RCI’s protocols are going to be diligent about their child’s mask wearing and adherence to all protocols and not just relying on RCI to protect them. Exposing fully vaccinated passengers to unvaccinated children is not the answer to any of these concerns. 
 

Whether excluding unvaccinated persons from cruising or having access to certain areas of the ship is discrimination under the law is highly questionable. Rest assured that the cruise lines’ attorneys have carefully considered this in advising the line on its plans. It may “feel” discriminatory, but that does not make it legally so.  

Edited June 29, 2021 by harkinmr

[richstowe]

23 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I wonder if the people who are medically exempt from the vaccine due to something out of their control could safely weather a COVID infection?  Or would they be wise to avoid putting themselves in any situation where they are likely to be exposed?  The risks of travel involve much more than the time spent on a ship.

 

24 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Sure they do.  My family loves to cruise, but if one of us were medically unable to get the COVID vaccine, we  would not choose a cruise vacation at this time.   That would be our choice 
 

We would not put our family member at risk on a cruise ship, or at ports where COVID may be flourishing.  
 

 Exactly !  For the unvaccinated , whether the reason is medical or mental , don't cruise at this time !

[forgotmyCCname]

2 hours ago, Thenagers said:

They are giving out 4 1 million prizes! Plus 4 scholarships for the 12-17 age group!

Wow!! I have to say- we were very impressed with the Covid response in NC as compared to here in PA and Maryland. If my kid wins $million he can take us on Celebrity in one of those ginormous suites!!

Have an awesome day!

 

2 hours ago, Thenagers said:

They are giving out 4 1 million prizes! Plus 4 scholarships for the 12-17 age group!

 

[cured]

11 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

I think my point is being confused, so I clearly didn't express it very well. They are, by definition, discriminating against the unvaccinated, and I'm pointing out people saying otherwise are just factually incorrect. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with discriminating. It's a perfectly natural thing. Discriminating against someone based on certain, specific things is illegal. This isn't one of those things. I have absolutely no problem with the cruise lines treating unvaccinated passengers differently than vaccinated passengers. Yes, it is by definition discrimination. And that's perfectly ok.

In order for it to be discrimination, it needs to be against a category that cannot be changed by the person being discriminated against such as color of skin, sexual orientation, medical status, cognitive ability, etc.

 

A person cannot change the color of their skin to be able to access the casino, so it is discrimination if they are banned from the casino.  The person who is eligible for the vaccine but chooses to not get the vaccine can change his/her circumstances to be allowed in the casino. So it is not discrimination as the person has access to the casino if they want to follow health protocols. It is a choice of the unvaccinated and merely a health protocol.  It is no different than banning the pregnant woman after a certain time frame of pregnancy from cruising.

[cured]

43 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thank you. It is indeed a tragic event and one that personally affects me as I have a friend underneath that rubble and live in a high-rise on the same barrier island.  It will also affect everyone who has property on the ocean, to some degree. As it will take many resources and time to get to the bottom of what caused it, I don't believe cruise line protocols are of any major concern to the State of Florida at the moment. 

You have my deepest sympathies for the potential loss of your friend. What a horrible thing to happen. I hope every day that miracles will happen and they will find people alive, hopefully your friend.

 

[BSocial]

54 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thank you. It is indeed a tragic event and one that personally affects me as I have a friend underneath that rubble and live in a high-rise on the same barrier island.  

Prayers to you and all involved.