"Always included" - false advertising?

[canderson]

36 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

I think it's pretty simple. Celebrity rolled out the Always Included concept and bookings fell off a cliff.

Going to have to consult the Wayback machine...

 

Can someone remind me -- What was happening in November 2020 that might also have been impacting bookings when they introduced this?

 

Oh, crap -- that's right.  They identified a mutation of COVID, later named Delta, in India.

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by canderson

[ExArkie]

2 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

j - do you happen to have any vegan butter??  LOL

 

bon voyage

Isn't that what we called "margarine" when I was growing up?

 

[rmalbers]

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Just to clarify: unlike many, I'm not a fanboy of any specific line. I would sail with Celebrity, Princess, Oceania, Crystal, Azamara, Cunard etc. We choose our sailings based on itinerary and pricing.

 

Of course with current Celebrity prices, especially for higher categories, there is zero reason to sail on Celebrity - in most cases you can book Oceania at lower prices.  

Ya, you're going to have to wait for all the FCC money to move thru X before it becomes a contender once again.

[Silkroad]

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Of course with current Celebrity prices, especially for higher categories, there is zero reason to sail on Celebrity - in most cases you can book Oceania at lower prices.  

So you started a thread to complain about Celebrity’s marketing, which morphed into a comparison with another cruise line’s marketing, which morphed into the statement that Celebrity is currently too expensive anyway. Interesting. Surely an experienced traveler like yourself is quite familiar with how to quickly scan marketing materials for pertinent data, and surely you’re familiar with the marketing “language” of the various cruise lines you’ve compared so many times before. IMO the terms “Always Included” and “Simply Sail” are quite clear, and it seems many others agree. 

[CroozFanatic]

18 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

Ya, you're going to have to wait for all the FCC money to move thru X before it becomes a contender once again.

 

Not sure if there is a cruise line without FCC.

[Bo1953]

21 minutes ago, Silkroad said:

So you started a thread to complain about Celebrity’s marketing, which morphed into a comparison with another cruise line’s marketing, which morphed into the statement that Celebrity is currently too expensive anyway. Interesting. Surely an experienced traveler like yourself is quite familiar with how to quickly scan marketing materials for pertinent data, and surely you’re familiar with the marketing “language” of the various cruise lines you’ve compared so many times before. IMO the terms “Always Included” and “Simply Sail” are quite clear, and it seems many others agree. 

s - sometimes our posts (agendas) become convoluted with what we are really wanting to say or contribute in lieu of just saying it outright... LOL

 

We can be led into the woods at times and we do not need anymore firewood...

 

bon voyage

[davekathy]

3 hours ago, Tinkbelle87 said:

I believe "Always Included" is a carry-over from the cruising restart, a sales strategy to try and get people back onboard. Now that more people are sailing they added "Simply Sail" for people who want a cruise only fare. 

 

I have a cruise booked in 2018 that lifted and shifted to the end of October. I don't get the extra new perks but could have repriced to get those perks. The cost was significantly higher. I decided to stick with my original reservation which included the perks I really wanted anyways, grats and beverage package.

 

I expect soon enough we'll go back to the pre-COVID sales strategies.

I agree. IMO, AI will be replaced with another similar incentive. I preferred the other ala carte pre covid choices we had. But we have adjusted accordingly to the current AI.

 My Magic 8 Ball says, cannot predict now". 🎱

Edited October 1, 2021 by davekathy

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, DrKoob said:

Actually we won't go back. Celebrity really wants to be an all inclusive cruise line. They made that very clear when they did the announcement. If they wanted to encourage people to come back post COVID then they would have just dropped fares. They bumped fares significantly when they did this. Also, when they first did this, there was no Simply Sail prices. TAs were told...this is it. This is the way it will be from now on. Then there were so many complaints, they added the Simply Sail program. But as has been mentioned, it is not always available on some cruises.

 

Jim

Well this is the point - Celebrity wants people to believe they are all inclusive. They are not. A line is all inclusive when all fares are always all inclusive. This is the meaning of Alway included. English is not my native language but when I see “always included drinks, wifi and gratitudes”, to me it means that all advertised fares include all those things. Period.

 

Lines like Oceania and Azamara also have few fares that include different things but they don’t market themselves as all inclusive.

 

If you want to be really all inclusive, here is the correct way to do it:

all advertised prices should refer to the all inclusive option. Then during the booking process, give an option to get a credit for drinks, wifi and gratitudes. Not the other way around.

 

But I probably shouldn’t be surprised. Celebrity was always 80% about marketing and 20% about the quality of their product. And a response of some of their fanboys is also not surprising. 

[Jeremiah1212]

18 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Well this is the point - Celebrity wants people to believe they are all inclusive. They are not. A line is all inclusive when all fares are always all inclusive. This is the meaning of Alway included. English is not my native language but when I see “always included drinks, wifi and gratitudes”, to me it means that all advertised fares include all those things. Period.

 

Lines like Oceania and Azamara also have few fares that include different things but they don’t market themselves as all inclusive.

 

If you want to be really all inclusive, here is the correct way to do it:

all advertised prices should refer to the all inclusive option. Then during the booking process, give an option to get a credit for drinks, wifi and gratitudes. Not the other way around.

 

But I probably shouldn’t be surprised. Celebrity was always 80% about marketing and 20% about the quality of their product. And a response of some of their fanboys is also not surprising. 

 

Sharing the semantics of your interpretation here won't change things. Choose with your pocketbook. Enjoy Oceania with the included airfare (as long as you select one of the gateway cities, otherwise it's not 100% "included" 🤯 but you already know this). 

[PTC DAWG]

29 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Well this is the point - Celebrity wants people to believe they are all inclusive. They are not. A line is all inclusive when all fares are always all inclusive. This is the meaning of Alway included. English is not my native language but when I see “always included drinks, wifi and gratitudes”, to me it means that all advertised fares include all those things. Period.

 

Lines like Oceania and Azamara also have few fares that include different things but they don’t market themselves as all inclusive.

 

If you want to be really all inclusive, here is the correct way to do it:

all advertised prices should refer to the all inclusive option. Then during the booking process, give an option to get a credit for drinks, wifi and gratitudes. Not the other way around.

 

But I probably shouldn’t be surprised. Celebrity was always 80% about marketing and 20% about the quality of their product. And a response of some of their fanboys is also not surprising. 

You have options, why come here and knock a product that clearly many enjoy?  
 

Note, we also know of these options. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[DenGNNJ]

“Always Included” is a service mark.  Not everything is fresh at Subway, United Airlines personnel are sometimes bitchy, losers eat Wheaties too, and I’m 100% sure Skittles do not taste like a rainbow.

[LGW59]

45 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Well this is the point - Celebrity wants people to believe they are all inclusive. They are not. A line is all inclusive when all fares are always all inclusive. This is the meaning of Alway included. English is not my native language but when I see “always included drinks, wifi and gratitudes”, to me it means that all advertised fares include all those things. Period.

 

Lines like Oceania and Azamara also have few fares that include different things but they don’t market themselves as all inclusive.

 

If you want to be really all inclusive, here is the correct way to do it:

all advertised prices should refer to the all inclusive option. Then during the booking process, give an option to get a credit for drinks, wifi and gratitudes. Not the other way around.

 

But I probably shouldn’t be surprised. Celebrity was always 80% about marketing and 20% about the quality of their product. And a response of some of their fanboys is also not surprising. 

Celebrity does not market as "all inclusive" anywhere!  They do market as Always Included for some fares, simply sail for others.  Is Simply Sail available all the time, apparently not, that is where your CHOICE comes in.

[ak1004]

47 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Sharing the semantics of your interpretation here won't change things. Choose with your pocketbook. Enjoy Oceania with the included airfare (as long as you select one of the gateway cities, otherwise it's not 100% "included" 🤯 but you already know this). 

Oceania airfare options are actually terrible.. especially for the business class. This is one of the few areas where Celebrity beats Oceania. We booked flights with Celebrity several times at rates lower than publicly advertised rates. I have no problem admitting when my favorite line does something wrong, I'm not sure why people have such a big issue to admit that Celebrity does false advertising, even if they enjoy their product..

[LGW59]

12 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Oceania airfare options are actually terrible.. especially for the business class. This is one of the few areas where Celebrity beats Oceania. We booked flights with Celebrity several times at rates lower than publicly advertised rates. I have no problem admitting when my favorite line does something wrong, I'm not sure why people have such a big issue to admit that Celebrity does false advertising, even if they enjoy their product..

totally agree that Celebrity handles air very well.  As for false advertising, hmmmm, I don't see it.  I will "admit" that I moved two cruises from Celebrity to Oceania, but not because of false advertising, I knew what I was booking when I did, but this was strictly because of huge cost savings.  I will sail Celebrity again in the future, IMO, they offer a wonderful product and their staff are simply AMAZING!!!

Edited October 1, 2021 by LGW59

[weregoingcruising]

6 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Celebrity new slogan is "Always included - drinks, Wi-Fi, tips. But this is not really correct, is it? For many cabin categories, the advertised fare is for cruise only.

I think you answered the question your self. 

[ak1004]

5 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

totally agree that Celebrity handles air very well.  As for false advertising, hmmmm, I don't see it.  I will "admit" that I moved two cruises from Celebrity to Oceania, but not because of false advertising, I knew what I was booking when I did, but this was strictly because of huge cost savings.  I will sail Celebrity again in the future, IMO, they offer a wonderful product and their staff are simply AMAZING!!!

 

Obviously nobody will stop sailing on a cruise line because of the way they advertise.. in the same way I will not stop sailing on Oceania because their handling of the air.

 

As for "wonderful product" - I wouldn't go that far.. Oceania and Crystal offer a wonderful product, Celebrity offers a decent product at best. I enjoyed sailing on both and I will in the future if the itinerary is right. Just don't expect a Honda to be a Mercedes..

[jagoffee]

5 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

When I go to Celebrity home page, this is what I see:

 

 

This implies that drinks, wi-fi and tips are included in the fares. This is the meaning of ALWAYS in the English language. I don't want to read the fine print or go through the whole booking process just to find out that the advertised fare is for "simply sail" only (which I assume is how thing were before - $300+ for the internet that hardly works, $4 for a small bottle of water etc) Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Just for comparison - this what Oceania shows: 

 

Separate fares for cruise only and for Olife. Clear and simple.

You are holding up Oceania as an example that is upfront and clear?  How about the fact  with Oceania that many people  book the OLife Fare without the Airfare, although it implies otherwise.  New people are easily confused.  Or how about the fact that when you book Business Class Air on Oceania, you basically do not get a credit for the coach air fare?  I also cruise on Oceania, but it is certainly not because of their clear marketing approach.  I just understand and accept the jargon.

 

I believe you are under the perception that Simply Sale rates are Celebrity’s base fares.  They are not.  I doubt whether you can find a single Celebrity Cruise that offers a Simply Sail rate in all categories.

Just like I do with Oceania’s misleading marketing, you can accept the fact that the Always Included rates are the standard base rates.  Simply Sale rates are a special reduced rate option on a very limited category and cruise basis.  Many times, the savings is not really worth the change and do not include a cabin choice. 
 

You have pointed out an example on one particular cruise.  The Celebrity Website did not initially indicate that the low fare was a special Simply Sail rate.  This is not how those rates are usually reflected and marketing.  Check a few others and you will see.  You may have found an inadvertent error as I assure you that it is not the standard practice.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

3 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Obviously nobody will stop sailing on a cruise line because of the way they advertise.. in the same way I will not stop sailing on Oceania because their handling of the air.

 

As for "wonderful product" - I wouldn't go that far.. Oceania and Crystal offer a wonderful product, Celebrity offers a decent product at best. I enjoyed sailing on both and I will in the future if the itinerary is right. Just don't expect a Honda to be a Mercedes..

Honda is more reliable than a Mercedes, 

Mercedes is all about the badge, it is not a better product 

 

[dazey]

After all this discussion I am wondering why I am not checking out Oceania.  Is it better quality for same pricing? Now I must spend hours finding out what I do not know!

 

 

[ak1004]

18 minutes ago, Airbalancer said:

Honda is more reliable than a Mercedes, 

Mercedes is all about the badge, it is not a better product 

 

Well, as someone who was driving 4 different Mercedes cars and SUVs and having both Honda and Mercedes in our household, I would strongly disagree.  

[ak1004]

24 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

You are holding up Oceania as an example that is upfront and clear?  How about the fact  with Oceania that many people  book the OLife Fare without the Airfare, although it implies otherwise.  New people are easily confused.  Or how about the fact that when you book Business Class Air on Oceania, you basically do not get a credit for the coach air fare?  I also cruise on Oceania, but it is certainly not because of their clear marketing approach.  I just understand and accept the jargon.

 

I believe you are under the perception that Simply Sale rates are Celebrity’s base fares.  They are not.  I doubt whether you can find a single Celebrity Cruise that offers a Simply Sail rate in all categories.

Just like I do with Oceania’s misleading marketing, you can accept the fact that the Always Included rates are the standard base rates.  Simply Sale rates are a special reduced rate option on a very limited category and cruise basis.  Many times, the savings is not really worth the change and do not include a cabin choice. 
 

You have pointed out an example on one particular cruise.  The Celebrity Website did not initially indicate that the low fare was a special Simply Sail rate.  This is not how those rates are usually reflected and marketing.  Check a few others and you will see.  You may have found an inadvertent error as I assure you that it is not the standard practice.

 

Yes, oLife air is terrible. Oceania regulars already know that.

 

On Celebrity website, there are many sailings that give prices for different categories, but when you start booking, for some of the categories prices are for for Simply Sail only. Yes, it could be for some categories, not all of them, but this is still misleading. You assume that Always included is the base rate, and this is what their advertising implies - but for some sailings and some categories this is just not the case.

[canderson]

19 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Well, as someone who was driving 4 different Mercedes cars and SUVs and having both Honda and Mercedes in our household, I would strongly disagree.  

JD Powers says you've been lucky.

[jagoffee]

Just now, ak1004 said:

 

Yes, oLife air is terrible. Oceania regulars already know that.

 

On Celebrity website, there are many sailings that give prices for different categories, but when you start booking, for some of the categories prices are for for Simply Sail only. Yes, it could be for some categories, not all of them, but this is still misleading. You assume that Always included is the base rate, and this is what their advertising implies - but for some sailings and some categories this is just not the case.

Yes, but I think you do not realize that the Simply Sail rates are a small number of special situations. I fear that you feel that Simply Sail are numerous and they are not.  Check other Celebrity cruises and you may gain a better understanding.  I am just guessing that Simple Sail rates are available on less than 10% of cruises at any time and even less categories on those cruises.  By your comments, It seems that you think it is more widespread.  

 

It took me awhile to realize that Oceania’s OLife and Air are two separate things.  You can have either on without the other. Now that I understand it better, it does not bother me.  
 

 

[JL87]

19 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

You assume that Always included is the base rate, and this is what their advertising implies - but for some sailings and some categories this is just not the case.

One could also assume that AI is their base rate and they offer some discounted rates as well. Semantics and really not that important if you're paying attention to the fares you purchase.

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

You have options, why come here and knock a product that clearly many enjoy?  
 

Note, we also know of these options. 

Yes, we have options to cruise on Royal C. for half the price of X.