Symphony - terrible / no shows / Covid ?

[RFerrington]

3 hours ago, Borat said:

how long did it take you to receive your refund?

It looks to be about 1 calendar month.  My TAs email telling me she had submitted the request for refund was dated 11-15 and Royal Caribbean credits started rolling in around 12-14.  This was only 1 of 10 cruises that I cancelled at that time so I cannot be sure exactly when that particular cruise was refunded but it was within several days during that period of time.

[tcneal]

8 minutes ago, cured said:

And exactly how would RCL have done this? Maybe their magic 8 ball, predicting Omicron was out of order.

 

Omicron was first reported by South Africa on November 24, a mere 4 1/2 weeks ago. In that short time, it has exploded across the world to be the dominant strain.

 

Even if Royal had started increasing the crew availability on day 1 of Omicron, there still has not been enough time to get new crew fully vaccinated and boosted. 

 

Or maybe that Magic 8 ball should have told them that they needed to keep a practice squad of fully vaccinated, trained crew on a ship floating around for other ships to pick from, just in case a variant like Omicron shows up?

As you said, Omicron started around 4 weeks ago and Delta wasn't over.  At that time Capacity was still at around 50%.   Yet, they started increasing Capacity every sailing. If they hadn't done that maybe things are not this bad with the crew.  I don't need a crystal ball to see that.  I personally would have been fine if they bumped me for Capacity reasons if they were over sold at that time.

 

Also, the fact that we took on additional crew from the Vision at Cococay means there was crew to use. They could have been added when the quarantine occurred with a little planning. 

 

But, we are having fun.  Food has been good.  The crew we have been great.   The entertainment is just seriously lacking.

 

[cured]

37 minutes ago, tcneal said:

As you said, Omicron started around 4 weeks ago and Delta wasn't over.  At that time Capacity was still at around 50%.   Yet, they started increasing Capacity every sailing. If they hadn't done that maybe things are not this bad with the crew.  I don't need a crystal ball to see that.  I personally would have been fine if they bumped me for Capacity reasons if they were over sold at that time.

 

Also, the fact that we took on additional crew from the Vision at Cococay means there was crew to use. They could have been added when the quarantine occurred with a little planning. 

 

But, we are having fun.  Food has been good.  The crew we have been great.   The entertainment is just seriously lacking.

 

You do realize that cabins were sold to up capacity long before Omicron reared its head. If you look at some of the announcements from months ago, upping capacity was part of the plan to resume sailing. It is not like the company said, "Oh, its Omicron, let's up capacity."

 

You say now you would not have minded being bumped to bring capacity down, but based on your previous comments, that would be pretty magical thinking.

 

It is not so easy to reduce capacity by bumping people within a 2-3 week window.  There are many other factors to consider like paid airline flights, especially those from across the pond, non-refundable hotels and all the other expenses people laid out months in advance. It is not like an airline where you can volunteer to get on a flight a couple of hours later. There is no cruise a few hours later. The company did shut down bookings to keep capacity at what was already booked.

 

Thinking crew can "just" work an extra shift, and expecting a large company to turn on a dime and completely change plans in the space of a month with a global pandemic, is either ignorance or as someone else stated, some of the most self absorbed thinking out there.

 

I think it only natural to be sorely disappointed in the experience, but your expectations of what can be done in just weeks time is crazy.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by cured

[tcneal]

23 minutes ago, cured said:

You do realize that cabins were sold to up capacity long before Omicron reared its head. If you look at some of the announcements from months ago, upping capacity was part of the plan to resume sailing. It is not like the company said, "Oh, its Omicron, let's up capacity."

 

Thinking crew can "just" work an extra shift and expecting a large company to turn on a dime and completely change plans in the space of a month with a global pandemic, is either ignorance or as someone else stated, some of the most self absorbed thinking out there.

Once again someone suggesting everyone needs to be flexible but RCL shouldn't be.  It doesn't matter if their original plan was to increase capacity.  They should have adjusted based on the current situation.  They couldn't predict Omicron but they could have adapted. You increase capacity when it's safe to do so.  It obviously was not.  If that means canceling bookings then that's what they should have done.

 

The ignorance is sitting at home telling people how they should feel about their vacation.  I think the OP just wanted to inform anyone sailing on this ship soon and provide information that they were not going to get from Royal.

Edited December 28, 2021 by tcneal

[tcneal]

2 hours ago, Jarmo said:

I believe there are limits to how many hours staff can work in a week.

I think you are right that there is a limit.  And I know they are short staffed.   That's why the craps table was only open 1 night.   I'm really not blaming the crew here.  It's unfortunate all the way around.

[LATTELOVE]

The more I read about this cruise, the more 

I'm glad we cancelled our New Year's Eve cruise on 

Symphony this week.   We have done quite a few NYE

cruises with Royal Caribbean,

paid primum prices for the entertainment, food

and the islands we visited.  We have never had a bad 

holiday cruise.  Always the best. A bit crowded, but good.

However these are different times we are in with the COVID.

If they are going to charge primum prices, they need to do better with

everything else.

I just can't imagine not having any entertainment. 

 

Hope they can do something much better for you all before this 

cruise is over.

 

 

 

 

[luckyinpa]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:00 AM, Iamcruzin said:

It probably wasn't the best idea to introduce a first time cruiser to cruising during a pandemic. I won't even book a cruise now because I know that the experience that I'm buying today might not be what I get 6 months from now. I would definitely voice my concern about the lack of social distancing in the dining room.   

 

 

it is a great time! actually i took my gf on her 1st cruise ever in october on oasis. was my 1st time on royal. except the masks it was spectacular. saw aqua 2x and concierge was able to get us our dinner times for the most part. after 1 very rough day at sea she did not get seasick. i said lets go on another one. 10 days later we got on the NCL breakaway to bermuda. the 3 hours to get tested before the trip was horrible but you forget about it once you are on the ship and mask free. another great cruise even though we had to miss 2 days in bermuda. i admit part of it was that it was super low capacity. i told her you will never see this again. and i'm sure i'm correct. no way can they go backwards to 50%.  i booked for this may because of the good pricing.  love that they bumped final payment. i told her will be 100% capacity but with the CLS we have an oasis away from the crowds.  id do ncl again but with masks theres zero point now. but it was very freeing traveling with no masks or other restrictions. 

 

also forgot to add much like NJ over NYC for embark but after the ncl cruise we did go to juniors for some delish lunch so it was worth the drive in. if anyone needs a place to eat it's close to the pier on 45th 🙂

Edited December 28, 2021 by luckyinpa

[jasongoldberg]

Supposed to be in St Maarten early tomorrow but we docked about twenty minutes ago. Pulled up next to Rhapsody and there are five crew in full PPE standing between Symphony and Rhapsody. It’s clear they’re going to transfer some quarantined crew off of Symphony. I don’t think Rhapsody is sailing with passengers — not by what I can see. I’ll try to post pics in the morning. 

[jasongoldberg]

The transfer started. One crew member with baggage goes across and enters Rhaosody. Once she/he clears then the next one goes. Steady stream. 

[Iamcruzin]

6 hours ago, tcneal said:

Not about any crew working extra hours.  I know there are casino crew working multiple shifts.  This is about the company.  Everyone believes we should have predicted this and expected the worst but shouldn't Royal have been prepared?  I still say increasing capacity increased the crews exposure, apparently without a backup plan.

 

While in theory Royal Caribbean should compensate for the on board experience, the reality is that you signed a cruise contract that releases them from liability.  It will be interesting to see what happens going forward. I had family sailing on a Princess cruise during Christmas week. They didn't have any issues and they were sending us pictures and text messages all week.  Symphony just had bad luck in terms of covid.  Cruising now during a pandemic is a crap shoot.

[DevonfromAcme]

 

You're correct.  Rhapsody has been in St Martin for months now, and she is due to sail out of the Mediterranean starting in May.  She currently has no passengers.

 

RCI is definitely offloading positive crew members to lower the numbers onboard.  It's not a bad plan, honestly.  St. Martin is reasonably convenient to a lot of the Caribbean ports, and if a port's only sticking point to deny debarcation is the number of real time cases on board, RCI can offload them and honestly represent a below-threshold case level.

 

53 minutes ago, jasongoldberg said:

Supposed to be in St Maarten early tomorrow but we docked about twenty minutes ago. Pulled up next to Rhapsody and there are five crew in full PPE standing between Symphony and Rhapsody. It’s clear they’re going to transfer some quarantined crew off of Symphony. I don’t think Rhapsody is sailing with passengers — not by what I can see. I’ll try to post pics in the morning. 

 

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, DevonfromAcme said:

You're correct.  Rhapsody has been in St Martin for months now, and she is due to sail out of the Mediterranean starting in May.  She currently has no passengers.

 

RCI is definitely offloading positive crew members to lower the numbers onboard.  It's not a bad plan, honestly.  St. Martin is reasonably convenient to a lot of the Caribbean ports, and if a port's only sticking point to deny debarcation is the number of real time cases on board, RCI can offload them and honestly represent a below-threshold case level.

 

Supposedly there are some CDC officials on some ships.  Are they just putting their heads in the sand and allowing this practice?  Some unhappy cruisers have been communicating directly with the CDC and being very vocal about their displeasure regarding the current situation.  As the CC refrain goes "only time will tell". 

[DevonfromAcme]

I have never seen any actual confirmation that there are CDC officials on cruise ships.  There are Public Health Officers on ships (i.e. those responsible for enforcing health protocols and liaising with the CDC and the ports regarding information transfer).  I think people confused the two.

 

That said, there's nothing wrong, fundamentally, with what RCI is doing.  If the numbers of positives continue to be mostly crew (who absolutely CANNOT social distance in quarters below decks-- it is physically impossible), and they've been quarantined below, the best thing RCI could possibly do is get them off the ship, onto a quarantine boat and unable to infect other crew members and passengers.

 

People are complaining that RCI is doing nothing about the numbers of positives onboard their ships, and now you're complaining that they are doing something?  Tough crowd.

 

9 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Supposedly there are some CDC officials on some ships.  Are they just putting their heads in the sand and allowing this practice?  Some unhappy cruisers have been communicating directly with the CDC and being very vocal about their displeasure regarding the current situation.  As the CC refrain goes "only time will tell". 

 

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, DevonfromAcme said:

I have never seen any actual confirmation that there are CDC officials on cruise ships.  There are Public Health Officers on ships (i.e. those responsible for enforcing health protocols and liaising with the CDC and the ports regarding information transfer).  I think people confused the two.

 

That said, there's nothing wrong, fundamentally, with what RCI is doing.  If the numbers of positives continue to be mostly crew (who absolutely CANNOT social distance in quarters below decks-- it is physically impossible), and they've been quarantined below, the best thing RCI could possibly do is get them off the ship, onto a quarantine boat and unable to infect other crew members and passengers.

 

People are complaining that RCI is doing nothing about the numbers of positives onboard their ships, and now you're complaining that they are doing something?  Tough crowd.

 

Not complaining nor disagreeing just wondering whether this is an ethical way of operating. I completely understand that a company is driven by whatever it takes to keep them in business but some of the recent practices are very questionable. 

[cruisingguy007]

11 minutes ago, DevonfromAcme said:

I have never seen any actual confirmation that there are CDC officials on cruise ships.  There are Public Health Officers on ships (i.e. those responsible for enforcing health protocols and liaising with the CDC and the ports regarding information transfer).  I think people confused the two.

 

That said, there's nothing wrong, fundamentally, with what RCI is doing.  If the numbers of positives continue to be mostly crew (who absolutely CANNOT social distance in quarters below decks-- it is physically impossible), and they've been quarantined below, the best thing RCI could possibly do is get them off the ship, onto a quarantine boat and unable to infect other crew members and passengers.

 

People are complaining that RCI is doing nothing about the numbers of positives onboard their ships, and now you're complaining that they are doing something?  Tough crowd.

 

 

 

Agree. If only business moved at the speed of great ideas and shoulda, woulda, coulda. Maybe a pair of those cool (I thought it was cool at the time anyway) glasses that you can see behind you on the sides. Crystal balls are too cliche. 😄

[cruisingguy007]

10 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Not complaining nor disagreeing just wondering whether this is an ethical way of operating. I completely understand that a company is driven by whatever it takes to keep them in business but some of the recent practices are very questionable. 

 

Nothing questionable about survival. You survive! 

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Nothing questionable about survival. You survive! 

 

True, I've survived through this pandemic but not by cheating the system. 

[Effydowite]

1 hour ago, jasongoldberg said:

The transfer started. One crew member with baggage goes across and enters Rhaosody. Once she/he clears then the next one goes. Steady stream. 

The transfer has been quite an eerie sight to see. We decided to head to bed around 12.45 am and counted about 85 crew (and counting) who have transferred from Symphony to the other ship, so no wonder some of the floors (4th and 6th to our knowledge) were blocked off.  
 

There was an announcement this morning from the Captain about not docking in PR as scheduled..  but since then nothing from the bridge, so I do feel that communication is lacking (especially since several passengers have seen the arrival into Saint Maarten) and this probably adding to the overall element of anxiety and dissatisfaction for the passengers. 
 

I must also add that we are quite disappointed at the amount of mask enforcement and social distancing has been. In particular - kids, teenagers and younger adults in indoor crowded areas are not being consistently told by staff to mask up, which is rather irksome. Sadly, I can’t help but wonder how many of these staff are down because of our (passenger’s) irresponsible attitude. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Effydowite

[DevonfromAcme]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Not complaining nor disagreeing just wondering whether this is an ethical way of operating. I completely understand that a company is driven by whatever it takes to keep them in business but some of the recent practices are very questionable. 

 

Not sure what is "unethical" about it?  From what we know so far:

 

-- The crew CANNOT social distance.  There is literally not enough square footage below decks to keep them apart.

--  Covid is spreading among the crew.

-- Positives among passengers are minimal.

-- The number of positive crew members is impacting the ability of ships to dock at scheduled ports.

-- RCI is offloading positive crew members to isolation ships at St Martin and Coco Cay to minimize infection and allow sailings to continue onward.

 

I'm just not sure what's unethical about this?  What, exactly, are you expecting RCI to do as an alternative?

[theLCC1]

7 hours ago, cured said:

You do realize that cabins were sold to up capacity long before Omicron reared its head. If you look at some of the announcements from months ago, upping capacity was part of the plan to resume sailing. It is not like the company said, "Oh, its Omicron, let's up capacity."

In my opinion Royal failed to course correct and underestimated Omicron. The writing was on the wall and nothing about what is currently occurring is a shock to anyone who has been watching the trend. Royal failed to protect their crew and, in doing so, is failing to provide the experience that has helped keep their “loyal to royal” customers coming back. 

[little britain]

4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Supposedly there are some CDC officials on some ships.  Are they just putting their heads in the sand and allowing this practice?  Some unhappy cruisers have been communicating directly with the CDC and being very vocal about their displeasure regarding the current situation.  As the CC refrain goes "only time will tell". 

What is wrong with “ this practice”… they are moving infected crew to an empty ship where they have space to recover. They have moved crew from an healthy empty Vision to replace them.

It seems a very sensible plan to me. 

[ReneeFLL]

16 hours ago, RFerrington said:

Casino's closed ?  Even on sea days ?  Symphony ?

 

If so, boy am I glad I cancelled and got my money back !

 

11 hours ago, RFerrington said:

It looks to be about 1 calendar month.  My TAs email telling me she had submitted the request for refund was dated 11-15 and Royal Caribbean credits started rolling in around 12-14.  This was only 1 of 10 cruises that I cancelled at that time so I cannot be sure exactly when that particular cruise was refunded but it was within several days during that period of time.

So you finally got your exemption to go thru?
 

4 hours ago, Effydowite said:

 

I’m sure Royal was happy to be able to do this during a time when most passengers wouldn’t be able to see it.

[Ocean Boy]

33 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

So you finally got your exemption to go thru?
 

I’m sure Royal was happy to be able to do this during a time when most passengers wouldn’t be able to see it.

There seem to be a few of us on every cruise that don't sleep much.😉

[Biker19]

7 hours ago, Effydowite said:

I do feel that communication is lacking

Welcome to CC and the norm for RCI.

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, theLCC1 said:

In my opinion Royal failed to course correct and underestimated Omicron. The writing was on the wall and nothing about what is currently occurring is a shock to anyone who has been watching the trend. Royal failed to protect their crew and, in doing so, is failing to provide the experience that has helped keep their “loyal to royal” customers coming back. 

Not just "underestimated," but made a conscious decision to maximize profits over the holiday period by packing passengers into their ships, especially Oasis class ships.  Forget health and safety protocols.