Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community

Carnival Corporation Axing Three Ships

tring

By tring,
in P&O Cruises ( UK )

 Share

Recommended Posts

ace2542

ace2542

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wowzz said:

You seem to have neglected to take expenditure/overheads etc into account. Revenue itself is not the "bottom line".

But in terms of Aurora wouldn't one question and a major question at that be the status of the small/medium size ship  UK cruise market and their competiveness in that market? As correct me if I am wrong and I might be but Aurora is the only ship mentioned that is either homebirthed in UK and or carries majority of if not nearly all brit passengers. The others mentioned don't do they?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wowzz

wowzz

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But in terms of Aurora wouldn't one question and a major question at that be the status of the small/medium size ship  UK cruise market and their competiveness in that market? As correct me if I am wrong and I might be but Aurora is the only ship mentioned that is either homebirthed in UK and or carries majority of if not nearly all brit passengers. The others mentioned don't do they?

To quote Spock from another thread - "You're Right!"

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CarnivalShips480

CarnivalShips480

Posted
Posted

In release, they said the removal would be complete by Spring 2024. So, to find out which ship it is, we can look to see when cruises are available for each ship.

 

Lets look at @Ombud's list again:

# of passenger per ship on the oldest in fleet list as CC increases pax per ship:

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

Can't be Elation or Paradise, they are needed, have cruises through 2025. Sunshine with those upgrades from Destiny can stay in the fleet through the end of the decade. Besides, cruises are available for Spring 2025 with plans to keep it there for the rest of the year and more.

 

Can't be Pacific Explorer, cruises are up through January 2025.

 

Can't be Grand Princess, cruises are up through September 2024

 

Can't be Aurora, cruises are up through March 2025. This ship seems much loved and part of a right sized fleet, so I can't see it being sold.

 

The last available cruises on Volendam and Zaandam are April 2024.

 

 

Of course, anything could happen including transfers and redeployments

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yorkshirephil

yorkshirephil

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

In release, they said the removal would be complete by Spring 2024. So, to find out which ship it is, we can look to see when cruises are available for each ship.

 

Lets look at @Ombud's list again:

# of passenger per ship on the oldest in fleet list as CC increases pax per ship:

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

Can't be Elation or Paradise, they are needed, have cruises through 2025. Sunshine with those upgrades from Destiny can stay in the fleet through the end of the decade. Besides, cruises are available for Spring 2025 with plans to keep it there for the rest of the year and more.

 

Can't be Pacific Explorer, cruises are up through January 2025.

 

Can't be Grand Princess, cruises are up through September 2024

 

Can't be Aurora, cruises are up through March 2025. This ship seems much loved and part of a right sized fleet, so I can't see it being sold.

 

The last available cruises on Volendam and Zaandam are April 2024.

 

 

Of course, anything could happen including transfers and redeployments

Just because a ship has cruises planned does not mean it will not be sold, P&O have form selling ships at short notice regardless of bookings. I am not aware of any other Carnival lines doing the same thing but wouldn't be surprised as I cannot see it being a P&O decision alone to sell a ship on.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tring

tring

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

In release, they said the removal would be complete by Spring 2024. So, to find out which ship it is, we can look to see when cruises are available for each ship.

 

Lets look at @Ombud's list again:

# of passenger per ship on the oldest in fleet list as CC increases pax per ship:

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

Can't be Elation or Paradise, they are needed, have cruises through 2025. Sunshine with those upgrades from Destiny can stay in the fleet through the end of the decade. Besides, cruises are available for Spring 2025 with plans to keep it there for the rest of the year and more.

 

Can't be Pacific Explorer, cruises are up through January 2025.

 

Can't be Grand Princess, cruises are up through September 2024

 

Can't be Aurora, cruises are up through March 2025. This ship seems much loved and part of a right sized fleet, so I can't see it being sold.

 

The last available cruises on Volendam and Zaandam are April 2024.

 

 

Of course, anything could happen including transfers and redeployments

 

Having cruises booked well into the future has never stopped Carnival dispose of ships previously, so highly unlikely to make any difference now.  The future cruises available just depend on when a specific season is newly marketed by the individual cruise lines.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ombud

Ombud

Posted
Posted (edited)

@CarnivalShips480 I hated to point out Volendam and Zaandam but they do have the lowest passenger capacity. Also Carnival Sunshine & Grand Princess have recently gone through an updating, as @Cruisemeister2002 and @molecrochip pointed out

 

Unfortunately having scheduled voyages means nothing (says someone who's had 1 cruise shifted to other ships / itinerary changed 3× and now pushed out to 2024)

Edited by Ombud
Link to comment
Share on other sites
molecrochip

molecrochip

Posted
Posted

A further point to consider, the longer a ship stays in lay-up, the more expensive it is to bring back into use.

 

I really see no way back for the Costa Magica. CCL are not likely to spend $200m+ to Sunshine it.

 

Volendam and  Zaandam are likely safe in my opinion. They may be small but command premium fares.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tring

tring

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

A further point to consider, the longer a ship stays in lay-up, the more expensive it is to bring back into use.

 

I really see no way back for the Costa Magica. CCL are not likely to spend $200m+ to Sunshine it.

 

Volendam and  Zaandam are likely safe in my opinion. They may be small but command premium fares.

 

I knew bringing ship's back into service after a lay up was expensive, but that $200m+ is certainly a lot of cash!  

 

Thanks for sharing yet more of your thoughts and reliable information about various options.  The sooner the decision is made on the third ship to go though, will be appreciated by us and presumably a lot of other people as well.  How long do you think it will be before Carnival make their intentions clear about that?  I am thinking they may be in some sort of discussions regards selling the ship(s) or other details which could affect the decision, so the timing may not entirely be in Carnival's hands.  It has been niggling me a bit that another news report (about the time the Carnival statement was made), mentioned that the UK Government were considering utilising disused cruise ships as one option to accommodate asylum seekers, though presumably if that does happen, the ship(s) could be obtained from anywhere in the world, certainly Mainland Europe.

 

I hope you had a good Christmas and wish you all the best for the New Year,

 

Barbara

 

Edited by tring
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ombud

Ombud

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

A further point to consider, the longer a ship stays in lay-up, the more expensive it is to bring back into use.

 

I really see no way back for the Costa Magica. CCL are not likely to spend $200m+ to Sunshine it.

 

Volendam and  Zaandam are likely safe in my opinion. They may be small but command premium fares.

I agree that Seabourn commands higher fares but historically HAL & Princess have been the same. 

 

Still expect Costa Cruise line to be decimated .... especially with whats happening with China opening and how Costa was supposed to fit that demography. 

 

Any thoughts on Costa sending ships to Carnival, Carnival sending ships to POAU, POAU losing Explorer? Especially in light of what happened with Ambassador Ambience (was POAU Pacific Dawn)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeanlyon

jeanlyon

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

In release, they said the removal would be complete by Spring 2024. So, to find out which ship it is, we can look to see when cruises are available for each ship.

 

Lets look at @Ombud's list again:

# of passenger per ship on the oldest in fleet list as CC increases pax per ship:

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

Can't be Elation or Paradise, they are needed, have cruises through 2025. Sunshine with those upgrades from Destiny can stay in the fleet through the end of the decade. Besides, cruises are available for Spring 2025 with plans to keep it there for the rest of the year and more.

 

Can't be Pacific Explorer, cruises are up through January 2025.

 

Can't be Grand Princess, cruises are up through September 2024

 

Can't be Aurora, cruises are up through March 2025. This ship seems much loved and part of a right sized fleet, so I can't see it being sold.

 

The last available cruises on Volendam and Zaandam are April 2024.

 

 

Of course, anything could happen including transfers and redeployments

It makes no different what is scheduled.  We lost our cruise on Adonia 3 months before they sold her and Oriana much the same.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CarnivalShips480

CarnivalShips480

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

Just because a ship has cruises planned does not mean it will not be sold, P&O have form selling ships at short notice regardless of bookings. I am not aware of any other Carnival lines doing the same thing but wouldn't be surprised as I cannot see it being a P&O decision alone to sell a ship on.

 

4 hours ago, tring said:

 

Having cruises booked well into the future has never stopped Carnival dispose of ships previously, so highly unlikely to make any difference now.  The future cruises available just depend on when a specific season is newly marketed by the individual cruise lines.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ombud said:

@CarnivalShips480 I hated to point out Volendam and Zaandam but they do have the lowest passenger capacity. Also Carnival Sunshine & Grand Princess have recently gone through an updating, as @Cruisemeister2002 and @molecrochip pointed out

 

Unfortunately having scheduled voyages means nothing (says someone who's had 1 cruise shifted to other ships / itinerary changed 3× and now pushed out to 2024)

 

15 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

It makes no different what is scheduled.  We lost our cruise on Adonia 3 months before they sold her and Oriana much the same.

I see what all of you mean. Please see what I mean. The late 2024 and 2025 cruises have only recently gone up for booking. Carnival has known for awhile that they have wanted to sell more ships, but they of course don't say it right away. What I am saying is that they wouldn't put up cruises at the same time that they plan to get rid of the ship.

 

Does everyone/anyone understand me now? 😶🤞🤞🤞

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeanlyon

jeanlyon

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

 

 

 

I see what all of you mean. Please see what I mean. The late 2024 and 2025 cruises have only recently gone up for booking. Carnival has known for awhile that they have wanted to sell more ships, but they of course don't say it right away. What I am saying is that they wouldn't put up cruises at the same time that they plan to get rid of the ship.

 

Does everyone/anyone understand me now? 😶🤞🤞🤞

I am afraid they do just that.  They had bookings for Adonia and Oriana for at least 18 months after they sold her.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeanlyon

jeanlyon

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Do you remember the reason for selling? I think this time is different because the sold ship is unnamed?

No idea.  All I know is I was booked on Adonia and she had 18 months at least more cruises booked.  Then we were told she was sold.  The same on Oriana.  we were moved to Aurora.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wowzz

wowzz

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

What I am saying is that they wouldn't put up cruises at the same time that they plan to get rid of the ship.

P&O certainly do that. They have a track record of selling cruises and then selling the ship only a week after taking bookings ! 

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tring

tring

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

 

 

 

I see what all of you mean. Please see what I mean. The late 2024 and 2025 cruises have only recently gone up for booking. Carnival has known for awhile that they have wanted to sell more ships, but they of course don't say it right away. What I am saying is that they wouldn't put up cruises at the same time that they plan to get rid of the ship.

 

Does everyone/anyone understand me now? 😶🤞🤞🤞

 

If they left one ship off a list of newly released cruises, then they would effectively be announcing they were not intending the ship to continue and they do not do that.  That list of new cruises will have been made well before the cruises honon sale as well.

 

Also, when they sell ships, they do not leave them sailing for a year or two before doing so.  Cruises can be cancelled at quite short notice, a few months is the longest time they give.

 

Sorry, just not what has been happening on P&O, for a long time and I have known it happen on another Carnival line, but I do not have a detailed knowledge about their other cruise lines.  It is unlikely that policy would vary though IMO.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Cruise Critic News & Features
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...