Carnival Corporation Axing Three Ships

[Ombud]

If POAU is ending up with 3 Grand Class then is it the Grand itself?? Or the Crown? I do see AIDA & P&O left alone & Costa line decimated as it was being modified to fit China schedules and we l know what happened to that. 

 

23 ships out already, 3 more on the block now, anticipate another 2 by 2023 yr end. Pushing out new deliveries & expiring FCC will help but not enough

 

1. Costa Atlantica -> CSSC 
2. Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC 
3. Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
4. HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
5. HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
6. HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths 
7. HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
8. P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
9. POAU Pacific Aria -> Seajets 
10. POAU Pacific Dawn -> Ambassador Ambirnce
11. Sea Princess > Sanya Int Cruise Charming
12. Sun Princess > Peace Boat Pacific World
13. Pacific Princess > Azamara

14. AIDAcara -> Astoria Grande 

15. AIDAmira -> Ambassador TBD

16. AIDAvita -> ???

 

Scrapped: 
17. Costa Victoria 
17. Carnival Fantasy
19. Carnival Inspiration 
20. Carnival Fascination 
21. Carnival Imagination 

22. Carnival Ecstasy 1991

23. Carnival Sensation 1993

 

POAU Pacific Jewel -> Jaleesh Karnika was not included in the list as that was sold pre-covid (2019) and not as a result of CCL trying to rapidly lighten its debt

 

# of passenger per ship on the oldest in fleet list as CC increases pax per ship:

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Ombud

[Ilovemygarden]

8 hours ago, davecttr said:

Look at it from the perspective of a solo holidaymaker in their 70's. A ship is a much better location than being stuck in a hotel for 2 weeks, especially a foreign hotel. My adventurous days are over but I find myself lucky in being able to afford a foreign holiday unlike many millions of fellow pensioners.

 

You can't take it with you, there are no pockets in a shroud.

I absolutely agree.  A solo hotel holiday is quite difficult.  Cruising alone - no problem although I did prefer cruising anyway before I was widowed!   

[Selbourne]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:24 PM, bobstheboy said:

Good to hear. We don't need to return to too many black tie nights, but maintaining a reasonable standard is needed. Also I think the drinks package should looked at. It is nowhere near the value that MSC and Princess give.

Agreed. Family members recently did an MSC cruise and took advantage of a special offer that gave the top tier drinks package for around half the price that P&O charge, plus none of the daft restrictions that P&O impose. Many of the drinks that we enjoy are excluded from the P&O package, so for us to pay for it we would have to see a price reduction plus premium drinks and mixers etc included. In its present format (price and restrictions) we wouldn’t even remotely consider it. 

[Selbourne]

5 hours ago, tring said:

Without ports, I see no point whatsoever in cruising, but do accept everyone has their own preferences on that.  Cruising is becoming more about the ship experience, which will not be for us.

We are the same. We pick a cruise for the itinerary first (by some margin) and the ship second. We don’t mind the odd sea day to break up a port intensive itinerary, but we don’t enjoy them anywhere near as much as port days. We tend not to do excursions these days, so are happy to spend a few hours ashore exploring on our own, and then we enjoy the (quiet) ship in the afternoon whilst watching all the comings and goings ashore. 
 

We did a 24 night USA and Canada cruise a few years ago, with 6 sea days in a row both ways. We were bored rigid on those sea days and, in all honesty, we would have much preferred to have been at home on those days. We have no end of first class pubs and restaurants to go out for meals near us, so don’t need to be on a ship for that. We usually enjoy the guest lecturers but that’s only for an hour or two a day. Port talks are usually sales pitches for excursions and most of what constitutes entertainment isn’t really for us. Thankfully, the experience on that cruise told us that we would absolutely hate a World cruise, which usually has more sea days than port days, so that’s saved us a small fortune!

 

Sadly, due to my wife’s disability, we can’t fly, so we are running out of ex-U.K. itineraries that we haven’t done several times and the new ships are so restricted, port wise, that I can’t see us doing more than a few cruises on each of them before they become too repetitive. Thankfully, the pandemic reminded us that there are other holiday that we enjoy as much as (and, in some cases, more than) cruising, so we shall just enjoy a mix. 

[showingdiva]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Agreed. Family members recently did an MSC cruise and took advantage of a special offer that gave the top tier drinks package for around half the price that P&O charge, plus none of the daft restrictions that P&O impose. Many of the drinks that we enjoy are excluded from the P&O package, so for us to pay for it we would have to see a price reduction plus premium drinks and mixers etc included. In its present format (price and restrictions) we wouldn’t even remotely consider it. 

 

First time I've had a look at the P&O drinks packages (I'm teetotal), but reading through both P&O packages, it is really restrictive.   I was especially bemused by the non-alcohol package which says that no canned fizzy drinks are included, but further down says that all said canned drinks are served opened. 

[jeanlyon]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

We are the same. We pick a cruise for the itinerary first (by some margin) and the ship second. We don’t mind the odd sea day to break up a port intensive itinerary, but we don’t enjoy them anywhere near as much as port days. We tend not to do excursions these days, so are happy to spend a few hours ashore exploring on our own, and then we enjoy the (quiet) ship in the afternoon whilst watching all the comings and goings ashore. 
 

We did a 24 night USA and Canada cruise a few years ago, with 6 sea days in a row both ways. We were bored rigid on those sea days and, in all honesty, we would have much preferred to have been at home on those days. We have no end of first class pubs and restaurants to go out for meals near us, so don’t need to be on a ship for that. We usually enjoy the guest lecturers but that’s only for an hour or two a day. Port talks are usually sales pitches for excursions and most of what constitutes entertainment isn’t really for us. Thankfully, the experience on that cruise told us that we would absolutely hate a World cruise, which usually has more sea days than port days, so that’s saved us a small fortune!

 

Sadly, due to my wife’s disability, we can’t fly, so we are running out of ex-U.K. itineraries that we haven’t done several times and the new ships are so restricted, port wise, that I can’t see us doing more than a few cruises on each of them before they become too repetitive. Thankfully, the pandemic reminded us that there are other holiday that we enjoy as much as (and, in some cases, more than) cruising, so we shall just enjoy a mix. 

Totally agree with all you said.  We don't mind a couple of sea days, but then really enjoy DIYing the ports.  We don't do excursions at all.  I do a lot of googling of the area before we go, have enjoyed great train rides and then another place to see.   Entertainment, quite enjoy the Headliners mostly, but some of the single acts, singers, comedians usually leave us cold.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

We tend not to do excursions these days, so are happy to spend a few hours ashore exploring on our own, and then we enjoy the (quiet) ship in the afternoon whilst watching all the comings and goings ashore. 

Looks like you will be enjoying the port intensive cruise on Sky in July !

[Selbourne]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Looks like you will be enjoying the port intensive cruise on Sky in July !

Sorry, you’ve lost me there wowzz 🤔

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Sorry, you’ve lost me there wowzz 🤔

Sorry - had a senior moment ! Confused you with TerrierJohn who is on the same Baltic cruise as us in July.

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry - had a senior moment ! Confused you with TerrierJohn who is on the same Baltic cruise as us in July.

No worries. I have those all the time - and I’m not really that senior (yet) 😂 

[majortom10]

22 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

Wow!. Birmingham must be a bad airport. We have done Leeds to Malta in 61/2 hours, start to finish.. Never seems to take longer. We take about 5 hours to reach Southampton.

 

Nothing wrong with Birmingham airport. I suppose it depends on how far you have to travel to airport from where you live.

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Nothing wrong with Birmingham airport. I suppose it depends on how far you have to travel to airport from where you live.

Exactly. We try and avoid LBA at all costs as it is a pig to get to from the A1

[majortom10]

We love sea days and have done a few roundtrip TAs 7 days to NY 1 day in NY and 7 days return on QM2. Love the ship our favourite of all and never get bored for one minute as there is always something to do and very interesting speakers every day. Good job we are all different or else we would all be on Aurora.

 

[Cruisemeister2002]

I suppose it's either a case of larger ships or more expensive cruises and seeing as P&O don't seem intent on competing with the like of Saga or other more upmarket cruise lines smaller ships especially those 20 years or more old will disappear. The likes of Aurora , Oriana and Oceana  will sadly no longer have cruise ships modelled on them, both from a aesthetically and size wise design.

[Cruisemeister2002]

14 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Totally agree with all you said.  We don't mind a couple of sea days, but then really enjoy DIYing the ports.  We don't do excursions at all.  I do a lot of googling of the area before we go, have enjoyed great train rides and then another place to see.   Entertainment, quite enjoy the Headliners mostly, but some of the single acts, singers, comedians usually leave us cold.

I love going to the US, but being a bit of a restless human being I do get bored, not so much the sailing across the pond, more the journey back as I really wish once the ports of call are over that I was home. Unfortunately the wife can't fly otherwise I think I would consider flying back. Not only that but once we had gone through the rigmarole of disembarking we then have to get a coach, sometimes waiting for late returners and then a five hour journey followed by a further 40 minute car ride. We have tried all manner of making both the journey to and from Southampton easier. But there really isn't an easier way. Part of the reason we never do a cruise of less than 14 days.

[wowzz]

20 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I love going to the US, but being a bit of a restless human being I do get bored, not so much the sailing across the pond, more the journey back as I really wish once the ports of call are over that I was home. Unfortunately the wife can't fly otherwise I think I would consider flying back. Not only that but once we had gone through the rigmarole of disembarking we then have to get a coach, sometimes waiting for late returners and then a five hour journey followed by a further 40 minute car ride. We have tried all manner of making both the journey to and from Southampton easier. But there really isn't an easier way. Part of the reason we never do a cruise of less than 14 days.

Any reason for not driving to Southampton yourself  ? 

I must admit, the thought of a coach ride back to Ipswich would put me off too.

 

[Josy1953]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Any reason for not driving to Southampton yourself  ? 

I must admit, the thought of a coach ride back to Ipswich would put me off too.

 

Perhaps a bad experience driving to or from Southampton. 

We always drive down the day before the cruise after sitting in the car on 1 occassion worrying whether we would make departure time because of 2 accidents ahead of us on the motorway on the way down we decided it is too stressful to take the chance. It is not usually so bad coming home but in October this year it took us over 5 hours to get home ( usually just over 3 hours ) due to getting stuck on the A34 not moving because of an overturned lorry a few miles in front of us.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Josy1953

[Happy afloat]

7 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Nothing wrong with Birmingham airport. I suppose it depends on how far you have to travel to airport from where you live.

About 17 miles/25 minutes. Nothing wrong with the airport, never said there was, it's the restrictions around it at the time and associated other problems. 

Turn up 3 hours before flight was due (May be different now).

Flight delayed, nobody could/would tell us why.

Flying into a headwind added more time (I know, nobody's to blame for the weather).

Waiting over an hour for luggage.

Coach transfer to the hotel (multiple hotel drops, last off).

I actually like the physical experience of flying, but it was a terrible start to a holiday. We don't want to put ourselves in a position where it could be repeated, so don't. Much more enjoyable, for us, to drive to Southampton the night before, stay in a hotel, have a nice meal, and let the wife do some shopping before we embark.

 

[majortom10]

3 minutes ago, Happy afloat said:

About 17 miles/25 minutes. Nothing wrong with the airport, never said there was, it's the restrictions around it at the time and associated other problems. 

Turn up 3 hours before flight was due (May be different now).

Flight delayed, nobody could/would tell us why.

Flying into a headwind added more time (I know, nobody's to blame for the weather).

Waiting over an hour for luggage.

Coach transfer to the hotel (multiple hotel drops, last off).

I actually like the physical experience of flying, but it was a terrible start to a holiday. We don't want to put ourselves in a position where it could be repeated, so don't. Much more enjoyable, for us, to drive to Southampton the night before, stay in a hotel, have a nice meal, and let the wife do some shopping before we embark.

 

Which is exactly what we do when we cruise, we only fly once a year to Austria and have never had any issues at Birmingham airport.

[carlanthony24]

Birmingham is quite bad security is a nightmare at times, lack of staff. Not much as changed when I flew out as crew most days. Manchester isn't much better either.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Birmingham is quite bad security is a nightmare at times, lack of staff. Not much as changed when I flew out as crew most days. Manchester isn't much better either.

If you can avoid the first "wave" we have found security pretty good. Another reason to avoid those flights at "silly o'clock".

[carlanthony24]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

If you can avoid the first "wave" we have found security pretty good. Another reason to avoid those flights at "silly o'clock".

You get a couple of jobs worth 

[Z0nker]

On 12/22/2022 at 11:52 PM, wowzz said:

Speculation on the Princess forum is that the third ship will be one of the following:

 

1996: Carnival Sunshine - 3,002 pax

1997: POAU Explorer - 1998 pax
1998: Carnival Elation - 2190 pax

1998: Carnival Paradise - 2,124 pax

1998: Grand Princess - 2,590 lower berth pax / 3,100 max

1999: HAL MS Volendam - 1,432 pax
2000: HAL MS Zaandam - 1432 pax

2000: PO Aurora - 1,878 pax / 1,950 max

 

The "favourite" to go is Explorer,  with the two HAL  ships also being mentioned.

 

Elation has my vote. Most of the rest of the fantasy class ships are already gone. 

[ace2542]

On 12/23/2022 at 8:51 AM, terrierjohn said:

With less than 2000 passengers and sailings averaging 15 nights plus, that's 24 cruises a year with 50,000 passengers, probably less since many will do more than one cruise a year. If Iona sails full she will do 36 cruises a year totally 180,000 passengers.

Aurora may be the most popular ship on this forum, but we are not representative of the average cruiser.

So who is the average cruiser then?

 

And surely it will be the ship that takes in the least money won't it? And the carnival ships skew younger don't they and are party ships so I think they are safe

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

And surely it will be the ship that takes in the least money won't it?

It will be the ship that is the most uneconomic.