Medical Center Malpractice

[not-enough-cruising]

18 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Apparently you know as much about the legal system as you know about the cruising industry. Thank you, know I know I’m right. 

I certainly know more about proofreading my posts, that’s for sure. 
 

[not-enough-cruising]

30 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Apparently you know as much about the legal system as you know about the cruising industry. Thank you, know I know I’m right. 

According to the legal definition of medical malpractice, 4 things MUST be proven to have occurred. 

 (1) a professional duty owed to the patient; (2) breach of such duty; (3) injury caused by the breach; and (4) resulting damages. 

 

I would be very interested in what your neighbor would argue the injury incurred was. 
 

By the way, as a result of my profession, I am incredibly well versed in medical malpractice law, as well as contingency lawyers that are always trying to push the limits. In the last decade or so, malpractice insurance companies have, more and more regularly fought these types of suits and settle less and less. On a related note, I have professional colleagues who are currently y spending their retirement years traveling the globe with their spouses and working as ship physicians as well as medical staff at high end resorts the world over. I am very familiar with cruise line business, especially the medical clinics. 

 

[BirdTravels]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:31 PM, Stick93 said:

 

I think most people would believe the US based hospital has better technology and standards. Maybe calling Jacobi and Myers’s should be the next step and not posting here 
 

Very easy to get the medical records from Ketchikan to prove case. 

Ketchikans best medical facility is only a Level IV trauma center. Basic life support and transfer to a real hospital in Seattle. Basically an Urgent Care. Maybe a couple of doctors working in the ED. 
 

 

And what case would that be? The docs in Ketchikan would likely want to “get rid of” a sick person, and what easier place than sending her back to the ship. 

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Based on hearsay OP and other posters are advising don’t go to the medical center. That could cost someone their life. As far as the general competence of RCCL doctors I don’t think there are any facts here one way or another. 
 

On our recent cruise, someone felling unwell did not go to the Medical Center. There was eventually a Code called, but she had already passed in her cabin. She road back to Miami with us. 
 

There are facilities for three people in that ship’s morgue (in the medical center) and in the past, they have had to divert when a 4th person passed and they did not have a proper. facility for the 4th person. 

[ReneeFLL]

4 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

If this is story is anywhere accurate, there are many many attorneys that would jump at the opportunity to pursue this. My neighbor is a retired attorney and says he would jump at it and unless they offered a settlement, or won in court, he would charge no fee. The first thing he would do after filing would let the whole world know how cruise lines feel about and treat their customers when things happen. The document from the hospital, along with a similar one from their medical professional verifying the first document would make it a slam dunk.

If that’s the first thing he would do then that’s the actions of a desperate attorney. If he felt he had a good case he wouldn’t have to take such measures. He just wants to raise such a stink hoping for a settlement so the cruise line will pay out so he will just shut up. Remember the Chloe Wiegand case? Royal didn’t settle even though that case was probably reported on in other countries. It definitely was national news. The OP has a baseless case. Your neighbor is the kind of attorney that gives others a bad name. 

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

According to the legal definition of medical malpractice, 4 things MUST be proven to have occurred. 

 (1) a professional duty owed to the patient; (2) breach of such duty; (3) injury caused by the breach; and (4) resulting damages. 

 

I would be very interested in what your neighbor would argue the injury incurred was. 
 

By the way, as a result of my profession, I am incredibly well versed in medical malpractice law, as well as contingency lawyers that are always trying to push the limits. In the last decade or so, malpractice insurance companies have, more and more regularly fought these types of suits and settle less and less. On a related note, I have professional colleagues who are currently y spending their retirement years traveling the globe with their spouses and working as ship physicians as well as medical staff at high end resorts the world over. I am very familiar with cruise line business, especially the medical clinics. 

 

Thank you for your clarity.  I find it interesting that the OP already had drawn the conclusion of malpractice on the part of the medical center through their choice of a thread title. I wonder what qualifications on their part led to that position? I don't profess to have your qualifications but I always thought malpractice was brought by a person's actions, not by a place......

Edited June 16 by leaveitallbehind

[TwoMisfits]

It sucks, but per the CDC..."If you are feeling sick before your voyage, do not travel and ask your cruise line about rescheduling or reimbursement options."  Since she effectively was trying to board from a US port with an active AND documented transmittable viral illness (aka, the cold), I'm not surprised she was denied a reboard.  It would be against stated US policy.

 

I think where she debarked and what the diagnosis was mattered a lot for reboarding...

[Cruising89143]

7 hours ago, yogimax said:

It's interesting to see how many will immediately jump to the defense of RCCL without knowing all the facts.  Others will immediately assign fault to RCCL without knowing all the facts.  Guess it's just symptomatic of our society.

This!

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

They are relaying a third hand story so why would OP speak to an attorney. 

Yes, relating a third party story and having no issue labeling the issue as malpractice.

[Ocean Boy]

8 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

If this is story is anywhere accurate, there are many many attorneys that would jump at the opportunity to pursue this. My neighbor is a retired attorney and says he would jump at it and unless they offered a settlement, or won in court, he would charge no fee. The first thing he would do after filing would let the whole world know how cruise lines feel about and treat their customers when things happen. The document from the hospital, along with a similar one from their medical professional verifying the first document would make it a slam dunk.

Your neighbor, the attorney, has come to his conclusions by reading a third person account of a situation which the OP branded as malpractice. This is either very funny or very disgusting. I'll go with disgusting.

 

I wonder what your neighbor, the attorney, thinks about the legal aspects of libel?

[Stick93]

Malpractice is whatever a lawyer is willing to litigate and what a jury decides. If you are unsure then you don’t watch any cable news especially the past many months. We have some crazy cases that are brought everyday and there is no rhyme or reason to what the outcomes are. If a lawyer 

 takes this case anything could happen. 

[TheBeardedCruiser]

5 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

On our recent cruise, someone felling unwell did not go to the Medical Center. There was eventually a Code called, but she had already passed in her cabin. She road back to Miami with us. 
 

There are facilities for three people in that ship’s morgue (in the medical center) and in the past, they have had to divert when a 4th person passed and they did not have a proper. facility for the 4th person. 

🤣😷Please excuse the first emoji; it was an accident and I can't delete it for some reason.

 

I wonder if the Icon class and Oasis class ships have larger morgues?

Edited June 16 by TheBeardedCruiser

[Kbonner]

3 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Malpractice is whatever a lawyer is willing to litigate and what a jury decides. If you are unsure then you don’t watch any cable news especially the past many months. We have some crazy cases that are brought everyday and there is no rhyme or reason to what the outcomes are. If a lawyer 

 takes this case anything could happen. 

I only would trust in Harvey Spector from Netflix' Suits

[bajathree]

The takeaway from this is don't go to medical unless you feel it's an absolute emergency.

[Badatz2]

1 hour ago, bajathree said:

The takeaway from this is don't go to medical unless you feel it's an absolute emergency.

Or be prepared to die if you are wrong with your self diagnosis.

[MommaBear55]

21 hours ago, Cruise a holic said:

So true!  Never go to the er in July.  New interns begin their rotations!  Lol

I actually called on a July 1 to get a patient transferred from our smaller hospital to one with cardiac Cath facility, the receiving doctor laughed, said the interns started today, they are much safer with you for the weekend and we'll take him on Monday. 

[MommaBear55]

16 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Based on hearsay OP and other posters are advising don’t go to the medical center. That could cost someone their life. As far as the general competence of RCCL doctors I don’t think there are any facts here one way or another. 
 

And on the other hand, my asthmatic husband developed pneumonia and they were wonderful, he went three days in a row until we disembarked. As someone who worked in EDs for most of my 40 year career, they were amazing. 

[smokeybandit]

8 minutes ago, Badatz2 said:

Or be prepared to die if you are wrong with your self diagnosis.

Everyone should know their own body. If you wouldn't go to urgent care if you were at home for the same symptoms, then likely you shouldn't go to ship's medical.

[d9704011]

Just now, smokeybandit said:

Everyone should know their own body. If you wouldn't go to urgent care if you were at home for the same symptoms, then likely you shouldn't go to ship's medical.

Just because a person chooses not to seek care at home doesn't mean they shouldn't.

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Just because a person chooses not to seek care at home doesn't mean they shouldn't.

This is true. I'm just saying I personally wouldn't go to ship's medical unless I would seek urgent care at home. And I also travel with as much OTC medicine as possible to cover all the bases for anything I'd pick up on board.

[cello56]

Here is my first hand experience with RCI on board medical services. Two years ago I suddenly, and for the first time ever, went into Atrial Fibrillation. My heart rate was extremely high and we called the ship medical facility and were told to come down immediately. I had two doctors and two nurses taking care of me. The care I received was excellent. I was diagnosed, and treatment was initiated. They also placed a call to the RCI on call cardiologist in Miami for additional guidance. This is standard procedure for any patient presenting with serious conditions. After an hour of trying to chemically convert my heart rhythm and having no success, the doctor and the cardiologist made the decision to turn the ship around and return to San Juan, PR. to off load me and get me to a land based hospital. They did this for two reasons, firstly that since this was my first time in A-Fib and I was not converting easily they did not want to risk the trip to St. Maarten, and two since PR is an American territory it would make the trip home easier.

 

Once this decision was made they sent my husband up to our cabin to pack. As soon as he got to the cabin a team of four Guest Services staff swarmed in and helped him pack up our entire cabin in a matter of minutes. Once the ship had returned to port (we had only left port about an hour before all this happened) we were loaded on an ambulance and taken to a local hospital in San Juan. Here in this land based hospital I reveived terrible care, was yelled at because I didn't speak Spanish, heart monitor leads kept falling off and no one seemed to care, and my husband was made to find someone in the office to pay $5 to purchase a bed pan so I could pee. It was truly awful and we could not wait to get out of there! 

So the care I received on board Jewel of the Seas was in my opinion EXCELLENT! Care in local hospital abysmal!

 

By the way here is a listing showing what is required to be an on board ship doctor.

 

 

Doctor

 

As the onboard Doctor, you will provide medical services to crew members and guests. You will also support the Staff Captain and Senior Doctor in all health-related matters at sea, including illness reporting and outbreak prevention. Your other responsibilities include managing the shipboard medical center's medication and supply budget; assisting in crew safety and personal hygiene orientations; and supporting food-handling and galley inspections. We'd like you to sail with us if you have an active medical license, a medical degree from a recognized college or university, and at least three years of clinical experience in general and emergency medicine.

You must also have valid Basic Life Support, Pediatric Advanced Life Support, Advanced Cardiovascular Life Support, and Advanced Trauma Life Support certificates.

Qualifications:

•  Three years minimum clinical experience in Acute Care setting, after completion of a recognized Medical training program is required.

•  One-year practical experience in Advanced Cardiac Life Support is required. 

•  One-year experience in diagnosing and treating a broad range of medical conditions is required, including experience performing minor       surgery such as suturing,removal of benign skin lesions, removal of foreign objects, removal of in grown toenails, and identification of and immobilizing of simple fractures.

•  Intermediate to Advanced verbal and written level of English is required.

•  Specialization with: Anesthesiology, Intensive Care, Internal medicine, or pulmonology experience preferred.

[BirdTravels]

10 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Your neighbor, the attorney, has come to his conclusions by reading a third person account of a situation which the OP branded as malpractice. This is either very funny or very disgusting. I'll go with disgusting.

 

I wonder what your neighbor, the attorney, thinks about the legal aspects of libel?

Actually no. It's a 4th hand account from grandgeezer with their spin and embellishments. 

[Badatz2]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Everyone should know their own body. If you wouldn't go to urgent care if you were at home for the same symptoms, then likely you shouldn't go to ship's medical.

I am not sure how I would act in similar circumstances, but I was just referring to an early post in which a passenger did not go and ended up passing a few hours later.

We never know what could happen. Best advice I could give--- get good insurance and don't be afraid to use it.

[grandgeezer]

12 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Your neighbor, the attorney, has come to his conclusions by reading a third person account of a situation which the OP branded as malpractice. This is either very funny or very disgusting. I'll go with disgusting.

 

I wonder what your neighbor, the attorney, thinks about the legal aspects of libel?

If you weren’t in such a hurry to burn me, you would have noticed that I stated “if the situation was reported accurately”.  As far as my neighbor, he was an attorney fo over 30 years and he has handled both felony and civil suits so I’m sure he knows all about libel, but apparently not as much as you.

Civil suits is a way for a person to get compensation for something that happened that didn’t warrant a felony charge. The big difference being a civil suit only needs, there is a better chance that person/company did it than beyond the shadow of doubt that the felony charge.

Just before the pandemic, I had the opportunity to be on a jury in a civil suit fo a malpractice/wrongful death suit. When we walked into the courtroom, the were two local lawyers for the plaintiff, and four big time attorneys for the hospital and doctor. You could tell they were hired guns by the way they were dressed.

On the third day, we were waiting to resume the trial after lunch, but we were still waiting an hour after the time we were supposed to start. The judge finally came and told us a settlement has been reached and thanked us for our service.

You know what brought on the settlement, it was the testimony of the expert witnesses. The defense expert explained it like he was talking to a room of professional medical people. The plaintiffs expert used the same xrays and notes but explained them like he was talking to us common folks. The xrays was the knock out punch. To the naked eye they were clean but with just a little enhancement the signs were clear as day, that’s the way they are supposed to be evaluated.

Chalk up one for David vs Goliath.

[Iamthesea]

3 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

And on the other hand, my asthmatic husband developed pneumonia and they were wonderful, he went three days in a row until we disembarked. As someone who worked in EDs for most of my 40 year career, they were amazing. 

 

We had the same experience with Celebrity.  DH had never had any asthma, but contracted a bad chest cold while in Australia.  I convinced him to visit the onboard medical.  He was diagnosed with asthma and given nebulizer treatments for 4 days.  It helped, and the medical staff were wonderful!  Total cost was $450.   However, when we returned to the states, DH saw his primary doctor who did not like the sounds of his lungs or heart.  He was sent to his cardiologist (previously had one stent put in) who ordered a lot of heart testing.  The cardiologist decided that DH needed another stent. Once he got in there, the aortic valve did not look good.  DH eventually had an aortic valve replacement.  His EF was at 20% after the surgery.  It has gone up to around 33, but still below what the normal heart EF should be.  The cardiologist said that he was probably in heart failure during our trip and that exasperated the coughing. Had he not gone to medical, he may have become extremely ill.   Among all the medications DH is now on, he also uses a daily inhaler for breathing.