Suncoastsailors Posted July 5 #1 Share Posted July 5 In the past taxes and port fees were a separate charge. They were also refundable if you needed to cancel. Now a much smaller amount for taxes is included in your cruise fare. If you needed to cancel I assume they would refund this portion, but it would be a much smaller refund than previously. Thus making the the port fees essentially nonrefundable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Haljo1935 Posted July 5 #2 Share Posted July 5 I'm confused - why would the amount of the taxes change? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmoo here Posted July 5 #3 Share Posted July 5 21 minutes ago, Suncoastsailors said: In the past taxes and port fees were a separate charge. They were also refundable if you needed to cancel. Now a much smaller amount for taxes is included in your cruise fare. If you needed to cancel I assume they would refund this portion, but it would be a much smaller refund than previously. Thus making the the port fees essentially nonrefundable. The taxes and port fees are still a separate item. They're just included in the total price so there's no sticker shock when you book a (not real numbers) $12,000 cruise and wind up being billed $13,275 due to the taxes and port fees not being shown in advertisements. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sunviking90 Posted July 5 #4 Share Posted July 5 (edited) Good observation @Suncoastsailors. I see what you mean. Below is the breakdown for a one way Alaska this September. I have been watching these sailings (and did end up booking B2B on HAL). I KNOW the taxes/port fees were around $350 cad, and yet they show as much less now at $107 cad. Hmm. Edited July 5 by sunviking90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmoo here Posted July 5 #5 Share Posted July 5 28 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said: I'm confused - why would the amount of the taxes change? Taxes always change. Same with port fees. When a cruise line sells a cruise 18 month- 2 years out, they're just estimating what the taxes and port fees are going to be on the actual cruise date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Haljo1935 Posted July 5 #6 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, Shmoo here said: Taxes always change. Same with port fees. When a cruise line sells a cruise 18 month- 2 years out, they're just estimating what the taxes and port fees are going to be on the actual cruise date. Yes, I know that, but your post #1 says "a much smaller amount for taxes is included in your cruise fare." That's what I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lido deck main Posted July 5 #7 Share Posted July 5 57 minutes ago, Suncoastsailors said: In the past taxes and port fees were a separate charge. They were also refundable if you needed to cancel. Now a much smaller amount for taxes is included in your cruise fare. If you needed to cancel I assume they would refund this portion, but it would be a much smaller refund than previously. Thus making the the port fees essentially nonrefundable. Yes you are correct. I am booked on a 14 day collector Alaska leaving in July so I paid ( in May, before the change) this is per person Canadian pricing by the way, so cruise portion is 1,058.69 and 734.67 for taxes. So I just did a check and used exact same cruise and parameters, I.e. leaving from Vancouver and returning to Vancouver 14 day Collector cruise, this cruise is leaving in September so again this is per person Canadian pricing, cruise portion is 1,894.07 and taxes are 179.04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminator Posted July 5 #8 Share Posted July 5 (edited) I am hearing the same thing that the OP posted about from a few members of a group of 6500 Holland America Casino Players on another forum who have booked cruises since July 1st. One of the casino offers expired 7/5 so they had to book. This info has been relayed to them by their PCC's while booking. I can not verify it as my PCC is on vacation until July 15th. Edited July 5 by Laminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminator Posted July 5 #9 Share Posted July 5 If you look at my upcoming Nov 8th cruse on the Rotterdam the port fees and taxes show $205 per pax. If you look at a NS for that cruise now the govt fees show as$120 per pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Haljo1935 Posted July 5 #10 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Haljo1935 said: Yes, I know that, but your post #1 says "a much smaller amount for taxes is included in your cruise fare." That's what I don't understand. 2 hours ago, Shmoo here said: Taxes always change. Same with port fees. When a cruise line sells a cruise 18 month- 2 years out, they're just estimating what the taxes and port fees are going to be on the actual cruise date. Apologies @Shmoo here post #1 was from OP. But I still don't understand the "much smaller amount of taxes" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare POA1 Posted July 5 #11 Share Posted July 5 It's because California's law changed. It forced the change on all cruise lines' North American bookings. On our upcoming 2025 cruise, the taxes, fees and port expenses are $233/pp. If I went to book it today, the cruise costs the same, but the government taxes and fees are only $88. I assume that the rest were port fees and expenses. Ironically, those are probably paid to some government agency - "cause there aren't a ton of private ports. If I have to cancel, I'd get my full $233/pp back. If you book today and cancel, you'd only get $88 back. (I'm still bitter about paying for" California Emissions equipment" on every car I bought in my life. Never drove a single one of those vehicles in California. Still had to pay.) https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance-legal-regulatory/california-honest-pricing-law-means-advertised-cruise-fares-must-include I know that a lot of this stemmed from the hotel resort fee situation, but port fees are a real thing that got automatically refunded if you missed the port. Now they're part of the fare? Thanks California! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminator Posted July 5 #12 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said: Apologies @Shmoo here post #1 was from OP. But I still don't understand the "much smaller amount of taxes" comment. Look at my post with the images. The Govt taxes and fees are much smaller when you book now. Total price is the same. I wonder where that extra money is going? That's a facetious question of course. Edited July 5 by Laminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted July 5 #13 Share Posted July 5 There is no law that says a cruise line must return port fees, Oceania does not. I didn’t like this law anyway and I am sure it will lead to the cruise lines not refunding missed port fees. Out of sight, out of mind. IMHO it was just a way to hide the tax and shift the angst to the cruise line. It has no benefit to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodndonna Posted July 5 #14 Share Posted July 5 For those of us (i.e. me) who don't actually know how port fees work - If a 3000 pax ship has 2000 pax on board, do they pay the same port fees to a port as if they were carrying 3000 pax (basically regardless of occupancy?). If the do, I can see port fees just becoming part of the ""fare", although I don't like it .. 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lido deck main Posted July 5 #15 Share Posted July 5 7 hours ago, Haljo1935 said: Apologies @Shmoo here post #1 was from OP. But I still don't understand the "much smaller amount of taxes" comment. Look at my post number 7. I break it down. OP is indicating with the new pricing model the cruise fare overall increases and the tax portion overall decreases. Read post number 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare richwmn Posted July 5 #16 Share Posted July 5 6 minutes ago, rodndonna said: For those of us (i.e. me) who don't actually know how port fees work - If a 3000 pax ship has 2000 pax on board, do they pay the same port fees to a port as if they were carrying 3000 pax (basically regardless of occupancy?). If the do, I can see port fees just becoming part of the ""fare", although I don't like it .. 😏 It varies by port. Some ports do a 'head tax' which is only collected for actual passengers. Others tax by gross tonnage, length needed at dock, or other factors. Those would be divided up by the actual number of guests and would vary from cruise to cruise. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted July 5 #17 Share Posted July 5 Under the old model, cruise lines were limited to what could be broken out of the advertised fare, and these had to be costs that were required for the ship to make the port call (wharfage fee, pilot fee, head tax) but not things that were required to complete the cruise (fueling, garbage removal, fresh water). Now, I believe they are breaking out only taxes that are paid to a governmental agency (pax tax, wharfage fee), so that the refundable portion is less. I've seen posts on the Carnival forum where they now have not only "government taxes and fees", but "required cruise fees and expenses", which amount together to be the old "port taxes and fees", and this again is so that the refundable portion is less, whether canceling a cruise or if they cancel a port. Since the taxes and fees are no longer excluded from the advertised fare, there is no limit to what the cruise line can call "fees and expenses", and no regulation as to what is refundable. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvertoGold Posted July 5 #18 Share Posted July 5 9 hours ago, Laminator said: If you look at my upcoming Nov 8th cruse on the Rotterdam the port fees and taxes show $205 per pax. If you look at a NS for that cruise now the govt fees show as$120 per pax. This makes no sense. Room 1 NS total is $12,318 including $120 pp Gov taxes and fees. Under booking totals: $305 is made up of Cruise/Journey Fare of $100 pp and Est Taxes, Fees & Port of $205pp How can HAL put out anything this obtuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExArkie Posted July 5 #19 Share Posted July 5 In the posted photos, the smaller amount is "Government taxes and fees." The larger amount is "Taxes, fees, and port expenses." These are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 5 #20 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 9 hours ago, Haljo1935 said: But I still don't understand the "much smaller amount of taxes" comment. The taxes that appear on the line item is, sadly, much smaller. I think the OP is onto something when it comes to port taxes being refunded. This will also effect solos who book two in a room and have one as a no show. Sometimes it's actually cost effective to go this route and have the second person be a no-show as port taxes and fees were always refunded. Here's the invoice of my Antarctica cruise. Taxes and fees listed as $505 pp as this was booked last year: Same exact cruise on HAL if booked today: What is listed as taxes/fees have been reduced by $355 per person Edited July 5 by BermudaBound2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminator Posted July 5 #21 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, ExArkie said: In the posted photos, the smaller amount is "Government taxes and fees." The larger amount is "Taxes, fees, and port expenses." These are not the same thing. Yes...It appears with the new pricing required by law that HAL is rolling more of the fees into the actual cruise fare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LAFFNVEGAS Posted July 5 #22 Share Posted July 5 The cruise lines took this new law and turned it to their advantage. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LAFFNVEGAS Posted July 5 #23 Share Posted July 5 I have done some more digging on this and this weird movement and change of fees appears to be ONLY happening on Holland America and Princess. 😏 I am not seeing this reflected on Norwegian, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity in comparing the major cruise lines. Most of the Luxury Cruise Lines do however include fees and taxes lumped in the full sales price well prior to the California Law change, so yes penalty is charged on the full amount after final on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted July 5 #24 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, LAFFNVEGAS said: I have done some more digging on this and this weird movement and change of fees appears to be ONLY happening on Holland America and Princess. 😏 I am not seeing this reflected on Norwegian, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity in comparing the major cruise lines. Most of the Luxury Cruise Lines do however include fees and taxes lumped in the full sales price well prior to the California Law change, so yes penalty is charged on the full amount after final on those. There seem to be complaints about this also on the Carnival board. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare TiogaCruiser Posted July 5 #25 Share Posted July 5 7 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said: The taxes that appear on the line item is, sadly, much smaller. I think the OP is onto something when it comes to port taxes being refunded. This will also effect solos who book two in a room and have one as a no show. Sometimes it's actually cost effective to go this route and have the second person be a no-show as port taxes and fees were always refunded. So for those who game the system, there is less reward with this model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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