The Downside of Booking Tours with other Cruise Critic Members 😡

We answered a request from a Cruise Critic member for additional people to join a tour to Seville from the port of Cadiz, leaving today.

The tour was a Jewish history tour in Seville booked with a very highly rated guide called Moises Hassan-Amselem at Jewish Sevilla Tours. The cost of the tour was 80 Euros per person and there were 8 of us.

The organizer of the tour requested transportation be arranged from the port to Seville ( 90mins e/w) from the guide Moises. Our guide arranged private transportation for our group.

Today, 2 hours before the ship docked in Cadiz I received a call from the organizer to advise that one of the couples had got a health issue and therefore wouldn’t be attending, the other couple had not wanted to pay the increased rate so he arbitrarily decided to cancel the tour.

We had no input into this cancellation and were left with no tour booked for today, more upsetting though was the fact that Moises, the guide, had paid for our private transportation out of his own pocket, so he is now out of pocket for this expense plus he has lost a day’s wages !

I believe that the couple that had committed should have been obligated to pay what they had committed to without it impacting other travelers. It turns out that Moises had agreed to reduce the rate but the organizer from these boards just did not respond.

This event has spoiled this day for us, we feel really bad for the person whose livelihood depends on people like us.

This behaviour was shameful, 🙁

Never make plans with strangers. Sorry this happened to you, but lesson learned.

I would never make plans at home with strangers, why would I do it on a cruise?

We answered a request from a Cruise Critic member for additional people to join a tour to Seville from the port of Cadiz, leaving today.

 

The tour was a Jewish history tour in Seville booked with a very highly rated guide called Moises Hassan-Amselem at Jewish Sevilla Tours. The cost of the tour was 80 Euros per person and there were 8 of us.

 

The organizer of the tour requested transportation be arranged from the port to Seville ( 90mins e/w) from the guide Moises. Our guide arranged private transportation for our group.

 

Today, 2 hours before the ship docked in Cadiz I received a call from the organizer to advise that one of the couples had got a health issue and therefore wouldn’t be attending, the other couple had not wanted to pay the increased rate so he arbitrarily decided to cancel the tour.

 

We had no input into this cancellation and were left with no tour booked for today, more upsetting though was the fact that Moises, the guide, had paid for our private transportation out of his own pocket, so he is now out of pocket for this expense plus he has lost a day’s wages !

 

I believe that the couple that had committed should have been obligated to pay what they had committed to without it impacting other travelers. It turns out that Moises had agreed to reduce the rate but the organizer from these boards just did not respond.

 

This event has spoiled this day for us, we feel really bad for the person whose livelihood depends on people like us.

 

This behaviour was shameful, 🙁

Since you were part of the group do you feel bad enough to pay Moises? Do you feel bad enough to at least pay the amount you committed?

Unless such tours are (non-refundably) paid for in advance, there is always the possibility of people backing out at the last minute -leaving others either paying extra or missing the tour. The more people are involved, the greater is the likelihood that things will unwind.

Unless everyone has paid in advance, I will only consider such a group effort if I have a last minute Plan B.

Before everyone had made a commitment, it should've been agreed that anyone "cancelling" (for any reason) had to either still pay their share or find replacement folks (usually doable here on the CC roll call and/or via announcement at a CC M&G onboard). This is a fairly standard procedure.

As for that couple that cancelled for "health reasons": If they had an appropriate cruise specific insurance policy, it might have included reimbursement for tour cancellation due to covered causes.

When we've organized tours via a CC roll call, we do our best to have folks commit directly to the tour provider (including paying any required deposit and final payment pre/post tour). As an alternative when no deposit is required, we collect the money at the beginning of the cruise at an agreed upon time and place.

IMO, this all works easier on smaller ships with a well traveled demographic where folks understand an established protocol framed in good common sense.

We have had this happen to us also. In addition, we have had bad roll call tour experiences (Think bully and narcissist). In the one case where we were in Cartegena, we opted to still go down and meet the tour guide, and found on the pier, 2 more couples that wished to join up us! The tour guide lowered his price, and we had a wonderful time. So, did the “originator” of the tour cancel the tour altogether with the tour guide, or just with you all? If the tour guide was available, and you were available, why did you not take the tour anyway? If canceled altogether with the operator, weren’t there other tour guides at the port to take you where you wanted to go? Or a way to contact the canceled tour guide, to take a smaller group? In our cases, we Always ask the originator of the tour, the tour guide contact information. I am just curious, as it sounds like you may have other opportunities, but chose not to do anything?

This situation happened to us. One couple in the group backed out because one of them was ill in the ship's infirmary. We went on the tour. The organizer tried to negotiate the price downward with the guide to no avail. We all paid up and the organizer later got the money from the people who were ill and had to cancel. Things happen. Unfortunately for you your organizer cancelled the tour. It does seem like a good idea to pay the organizer at the beginning of the cruise although I have never had that happen. At the very least it should be made known that anyone backing out xx days before the cruise is obligated to pay as other people are dependent on them doing so.

Never make plans with strangers. Sorry this happened to you, but lesson learned.

I would never make plans at home with strangers, why would I do it on a cruise?

My thoughts exactly. OP sorry this happened to you.

Really sorry this happened to you but appreciate your post because people do need to know there can be a downside to booking with total strangers on their Roll Call.

So sorry for your experience, but thank you for the post.

We have been on tours with roll call members, and never had this happen to us. But, it is a good reminder to plan ahead and make sure everyone knows what will happen if someone cancels at the last minute (for whatever reason).

My thoughts exactly. OP sorry this happened to you.

It's a bit unrealistic to think that "going it alone" on tours (particularly in remote, tourist dependent locations) will always work.

There are some very classic tour experiences around the world that pretty much require more than a couple of folks in order to not "break the bank" or to happen at all.

A great example would be Maohe Nui on Bora Bora. Owner Patrick requires a minimum of six people for his outrigger canoe snorkel trip and the imu prepared luncheon. Yes, you could book him for a couple wanting a "private" tour. But, that cost would be quite prohibitive for most folks (and even the smallest of pigs would be a tremendous waste of food).

Since his schedule often fills a year in advance, finding replacements for anyone needing to drop out is seldom a problem.

Another example is Easter Island Travel (Marcus), which primarily books minibus loads many months in advance. One of the great things about owner Marcus' organization is that his website helps to build the group.

Ouch. Yeah, I'm with the others. I won't book any of these CC Roll Call excursions. I book with the cruise line at least until I get brave enough to book one on my own through a private company.

We have booked many private excursions with CC members. I would do it again in a heartbeat. They are much better than the ships excursions with large coach buses and lots of people. We actually do both (use OBC for the ship's excursions) but prefer the private ones.

We have a tour on the Roll Call but the organizer has it worked out that the tour guide bills each person/couple independently and payment is made beforehand. That seems a safer system.

I think what happened to the OP sucks, but its really like a roll of the dice. And it does not have anything to do with CC or even the idea of booking a tour with strangers. Over the years we have even seen cruise line Excursions canceled within a day of the tour for various reasons. The reality is that this is just part of any kind of group travel...which is one reason why DW and I prefer to do our own thing whenever its practical. When we have booked small group tours with others here on CC it has usually worked out fine...and in most cases was a far better experience then being stuck on a a large tour bus where folks are often treated like cattle (follow the sign, go where we say, etc).

I thought about what we would have done in the OP's situation with only 2 hours notice. In our case I would have quickly gotten on the INTERNET (or used my phone when in range of the shore cells) to try and book a rental car. But another option from Cadiz would be to simply take the train directly to Seville (we have done this in the past) which is a great option if the train schedule works with your docking times. My point is that we independent travelers are always thinking about a "Plan B" or even a "Plan C" which is a norm for those who do their own thing. When you decide to play the tour or excursion game you live (and die) with the decision of others.

I would also mention that the best private tour organizers we ever met (Brad and Karen) arranged more then a dozen tours on a long HAL cruise. But what they did was require each tour participant to pay them, in advance, at a group meeting we had the 2nd day of the cruise. Karen (who had been doing this for many years on lots of cruises) told everyone that the reason she demanded advance payment was to avoid the situation that happened to the OP. If you didn't go on the tour, you did not get your money back...unless Karen could convince the tour provider to drop their price. There were many folks who did not like this approach and Karen's response was "no problem, have a nice day!/" And yes, she easily filled all of her tour slots (she liked to use large buses that were only half full).

Hank

OP, I feel very bad for you! What a disappointment!

About a decade ago when I first became active on Cruise Critic, you never heard of this happening. Small group tours were formed on roll calls and people seemed to understand the "rules" that if you committed to the tour, you had to pay your share whether or not you went. Now this kind of thing seems to happen more often.

For me, the disappointment of such an event wouldn't be having to pay more money to cover an absent party, it would be having carefully made plans fall through -- who knows when we will return to some of these places again, right?

I do agree with others that one should do what one can to ensure things go as planned, including regular reminders and followups to anyone signed up, booking tours with guides who will bill each party individually, and setting clear expectations. Yet I know even that can fall apart.

Generally I go my own way in ports where I can, using public transportation, taxi or pre-arranged driver. I'd feel comfortable with this approach anywhere in Europe and most (but not all) other places. Some days are cheap -- those where I can take the train or a local bus, only paying for entry to museums or sites -- and other days are expensive (e.g., a full-day private tour in Israel for one person), but I just tell myself that it all equals out.

By and large I have better experiences than on the overpriced, large, and often mediocre ship tours and probably pay less on average.... My focus is more on the experience itself and less on 'saving money' though.

I've learned that if I am considering a small group private tour, it's better to be the organizer than just a participant -- that way you have a bit more control and input. For example, I prefer not to have any shopping stops on my tours. Also, if someone else backs out, I will not cancel the tour on everyone else, as happened here. :eek:

OP, does Cruise Critic allow you to name the organizers who cancelled? Maybe public shaming on the appropriate board would help get the message across that this kind of thing is unacceptable....

It is too bad your organizer did not give you the opportunity to do the tour maybe finding other at the dock will to share

Now a lot of tour guides require payment in full well in advance

My tale of woe

I paid for a tour in Wales a few yrs ago for a group of 11 ( over $1000 CAD)

I collected the $ from the others onboard

My DH got ill part way through the cruise & we had to return home

I contacted everyone & the tour guide

The tour would go on as booked so I was only out of pocket for our share ....fair enough

BUT WAIT

there was a storm in the Irish Sea & the ship was stuck in Dublin for 2 days & Holyhead port was cancelled

So Contacted the tour guide he would refund 50% of the cost ..fair enough he missed a day's pay

All were fine with the 50% refund that the guide gave me ..stuff happens

I was fortunate I was able to claim the tour with our trip insurance so got the rest of the tour price refunded

Now the fun part trying to return the money to the other participants

All got their full payment back

One lady in her blog had the gall to post that we went home & she probably would never see her money again

& never amended her blog to say she got it a few weeks later

I will not prepay for a tour again

I have no hesitation of booking tours with others but ONLY if we pay on the day of the tour or they pay the guide themselves

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard of vacation plans being ruined because someone backed out, I'd have more than enough to pay the difference owed here. I've learned on multiple occasions to not rely on people, especially if funds have not been paid yet. The "illness" cop-out is a lie more often than not.

I feel bad for the vendor, but not completely. This is a poor model to run if the only people that can/will attend are people who have not yet paid anything. There should at least be a deposit, if not paid in full.

We did 7 tours with our roll call passengers on our 12 day cruise 2 years ago , a couple were just ok, most were fantastic , loved small groups 6 to 10 people all at a great value. This was European cruise.

In the OP's case I can't believe that second couple dropped out over 160 euros which could have been split among the 3 remaining couples and now you know Moises dropped his rate, so it would have been even less. That is just so rude. I have had a situation where I could not go on the tour due to a bad asthma attack - my husband went on the tour and he paid for both of our tours as it was simply the right thing to do so it affected no one but us. And yes, I agree the couple who dropped out due to illness should have paid and gotten reimbursed through their travel insurance. I think in your situation I would have asked for Moises phone number and immediately called and un-cancelled the tour and renegotiated with Moises to go on a private tour that day. It would probably have cost 400-500 Euros, but I'm sure it would have been a great tour. I feel strongly about not letting other people mess up my plans, so I would have gone on without them and enjoyed myself and thought how glad I was not to be touring with such rude people.

We answered a request from a Cruise Critic member for additional people to join a tour to Seville from the port of Cadiz, leaving today.

 

The tour was a Jewish history tour in Seville booked with a very highly rated guide called Moises Hassan-Amselem at Jewish Sevilla Tours. The cost of the tour was 80 Euros per person and there were 8 of us.

 

The organizer of the tour requested transportation be arranged from the port to Seville ( 90mins e/w) from the guide Moises. Our guide arranged private transportation for our group.

 

Today, 2 hours before the ship docked in Cadiz I received a call from the organizer to advise that one of the couples had got a health issue and therefore wouldn’t be attending, the other couple had not wanted to pay the increased rate so he arbitrarily decided to cancel the tour.

 

We had no input into this cancellation and were left with no tour booked for today, more upsetting though was the fact that Moises, the guide, had paid for our private transportation out of his own pocket, so he is now out of pocket for this expense plus he has lost a day’s wages !

 

I believe that the couple that had committed should have been obligated to pay what they had committed to without it impacting other travelers. It turns out that Moises had agreed to reduce the rate but the organizer from these boards just did not respond.

 

This event has spoiled this day for us, we feel really bad for the person whose livelihood depends on people like us.

 

This behaviour was shameful,

I agree, the couple who cancelled should pay thea mount that is owing.

They committed and they owe t that moneyi No one should have to ask them for it.. It should be forfthcoming immediately.

I LOVE Spaiin and after many visits to Spain, Seville , remains a favorite Spanish city. i Hope you get to enjoy.

You did us a service to post this m essage .

i would hesitate to book with a group of forum strangers i don't know. you pointed out 'real' risks of doing so. Not everyone is honest and responsible. Some are so c heap they do'nt care who they 'stiff and who they hurt. They had to know without their meeting their responsibility, some would miss out on the tour. Their money matters more to them than the people they hurt.

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Someone dropping out or trip cancellation isn't the only possible problem. We booked a tour through a roll call - people sounded lovely online, price was right, a group of only 6 in a van. We were the last to board the van, and I got stuck in a hard jump seat with no seat belt; no one (other than DH) offered to switch with me at any point in the all-day tour even though I was in obvious discomfort. One of the two other couples was very nice, the other couple never stopped expounding their political/social opinions at high volume the whole day. It was a miserable day and I'll never take a chance again with a small group of strangers. At least on a bus if you have 1 or 2 obnoxious people, you can sometimes move to a different spot on the bus.

FWIW: never a bad idea to Google your potential tour mates.

Someone dropping out or trip cancellation isn't the only possible problem. We booked a tour through a roll call - people sounded lovely online, price was right, a group of only 6 in a van. We were the last to board the van, and I got stuck in a hard jump seat with no seat belt; no one (other than DH) offered to switch with me at any point in the all-day tour even though I was in obvious discomfort. One of the two other couples was very nice, the other couple never stopped expounding their political/social opinions at high volume the whole day. It was a miserable day and I'll never take a chance again with a small group of strangers. At least on a bus if you have 1 or 2 obnoxious people, you can sometimes move to a different spot on the bus.

While that's true, big bus tours can have different (but equal) annoyances: long shopping stops where you are held captive and the escort gets a kick-back; folks who are constantly late back to the bus, well past agreed-upon meeting time; folks playing musical chairs on the bus or arguing about seats; disinterested or poorly informed guides (or my favorite, the ones who make fun of minorities in their own country); and so on.

I've been on a lot of ship tours and I won't take any more of them unless there is absolutely NO other choice. (Been cruising since the 1970s...)

I like to say that while a ship tour and a private tour both have the potential to be great or to be terrible, in my experience the better tours have been the private ones and the worst 3 or 4 have all been big bus ship tours.

I have had some wonderful excursions wth people I met through a CC roll call. In each case, though, we booked individually through the tour provider. We wouldn't be on the hook for someone else's "no show." And Cruisemom 42's right: any of these smaller tours are better than a large ship-sponsored tour with a 50-passenger bus. The example I always use is St. Petersburg: we had a 16-passenger van that took us to all the scheduled sights. One of the ship tours, though, missed the Church of Spilled Blood - no place for the 50-passenger bus to park.:(

GREat for those who had good roll all tour experiences. OP DID not. it doesn'thelp OP to be told their tour Might have been Good, I wasn't goog.

I APPfreciate the trtuthful, report of what went wrong. A warning to those of us who wish to heed th 'e lesson IMO