Mini Review of Top Deck Burger Bar on Constellation

[shipshape sam]

So it seems this burger stand is now another area that caters to suite guests for no added fee...others must pay or eat pre cooked patties from the buffet bins,,...hope this is not the start of a new trend...

 

Maybe someday the rest of us can have Luminae leftovers for a small fee...,

 

For sure it is a trend. They have to create value for suite guest to justify the suite pricing. On Edge, there will be a fully segregated area which I have no problem with. I just wish the other cabin category pricing was sufficient enough that they provided some benefits that were included across all categories vs this trend to a basic (dumbing down) product and then ala carte 'modern luxury' to justify all the fee based products and services now being offered.

 

Hmmm... wonder if they might start selling the Luminae leftovers? :evilsmile:

 

Is there an area they have not split the product/service into tiers?

[ChucktownSteve]

For sure it is a trend. They have to create value for suite guest to justify the suite pricing.

Is there an area they have not split the product/service into tiers?

 

So far the loo is such an area.

[hcat]

For sure it is a trend. They have to create value for suite guest to justify the suite pricing. On Edge, there will be a fully segregated area which I have no problem with. I just wish the other cabin category pricing was sufficient enough that they provided some benefits that were included across all categories vs this trend to a basic (dumbing down) product and then ala carte 'modern luxury' to justify all the fee based products and services now being offered.

 

Hmmm... wonder if they might start selling the Luminae leftovers? :evilsmile:

 

Is there an area they have not split the product/service into tiers?

 

I had no problem on Cunard where Suite guests stay, eat and play in areas that are sep,...because the ships were designed that way and there were lots of spots for the rest of us to enjoy,

 

Celeb in contrast has systematically taken away what was open to all in order to optimize the suite experience....ex, truncated nightcub on Ref to create suites, removal of Michael's as an Elite lounge at set times and open to all piano bar/ lounge at other times, truncating MDR to create luminae, No grudge here with suite guests who pay so much,,,but shrinking public spaces at the expense of others is disappounting,

 

Hoping Edge has something for everyone,,..and is not tinkered with, once built.

[happy cruzer]

Maybe they are trying to out do Carnival's Guy's Burgers which are extremely popular.... :)

 

Supposedly a very good fresh burger with a toppings bar at no extra charge. People rave about the fries too.

[TeeRick]

So it seems this burger stand is now another area that caters to suite guests for no added fee...others must pay or eat pre cooked patties from the buffet bins,,...hope this is not the start of a new trend...

 

Maybe someday the rest of us can have Luminae leftovers for a small fee...,

 

Why make this conversation about suite guests now? First off the comment was that TDBB was included for Royal and Penthouse Suite guests only. Not other types of suites, which are the majority on board, get it included. These particular two types of premium suites are very high end and very expensive. They get free specialty dining. They pay a ton of money for their suites. The TDBB was not set up to cater to suite guests as you state just because a few guests in the very few high end suites get to eat a burger there without paying $10.

[hcat]

Why make this conversation about suite guests now? First off the comment was that TDBB was included for Royal and Penthouse Suite guests only. Not other types of suites, which are the majority on board, get it included. These particular two types of premium suites are very high end and very expensive. They get free specialty dining. They pay a ton of money for their suites. The TDBB was not set up to cater to suite guests as you state just because a few guests in the very few high end suites get to eat a burger there without paying $10.

 

I mentioned it because someone else said they observed mostly suite guests using it...no cost to them and that paying guests are not using it as much..... Time will tell...

 

Non suite guests have now lost an included lunch venue..leaving just the buffet, AQ cafe, room service and MDR. The last two mean you have to vacate the pool area for a fairly long time....and the AQ spa cafe is totally over run at lunch time...

 

Suite guests deserve their perks but the rest of us are losing inclusions inch by inch...That was my point.

[Orator]

Wonder how much a real Kobe burger would cost in Kobe, Japan?

[shipshape sam]

I had no problem on Cunard where Suite guests stay, eat and play in areas that are sep,...because the ships were designed that way and there were lots of spots for the rest of us to enjoy,

 

Celeb in contrast has systematically taken away what was open to all in order to optimize the suite experience....ex, truncated nightcub on Ref to create suites, removal of Michael's as an Elite lounge at set times and open to all piano bar/ lounge at other times, truncating MDR to create luminae, No grudge here with suite guests who pay so much,,,but shrinking public spaces at the expense of others is disappounting,

 

Hoping Edge has something for everyone,,..and is not tinkered with, once built.

 

I AM with you! I am sure though the tinkering will happen. You can never fully know what the future is and I do understand Celebrity trying to react/anticipate competition and customer wants, so it is, IMHO, a certainty they will tinker.

 

I too hate the lost of public space and even more so the lost of features that were benefits to all cruisers and now only available to some cruisers.

[shipshape sam]

Why make this conversation about suite guests now? First off the comment was that TDBB was included for Royal and Penthouse Suite guests only. Not other types of suites, which are the majority on board, get it included. These particular two types of premium suites are very high end and very expensive. They get free specialty dining. They pay a ton of money for their suites. The TDBB was not set up to cater to suite guests as you state just because a few guests in the very few high end suites get to eat a burger there without paying $10.

 

WE can only hope it was not targeted. I too agree Celebrity has to create value, but do they have to create value to a 'suite' guest at the expense of a non-suite guest by offering the product/service as 'included' in the suite fare/package AND then making the non suite passenger (those who know how it used to be at least) feel like a benefit has been taken away? I know of no reason to be creating more value other than they are charging a lot more money and either they feel the current product/service is lacking sufficient value or 'suite' guest are saying the value proposition is not worth the cost. My guess is the former as I understand that most suites sell out pretty fast.

 

I am all in favor of a fully segregated experience in theory, but know that when we had friends traveling with us that were new to Celebrity, we skipped the Captains Club in the evening. Not sure how that plays out now with Luminae, Michaels Club,et. al.. Maybe some with some experience can share their experiences.

[shipshape sam]

Wonder how much a real Kobe burger would cost in Kobe, Japan?

 

That's a good research question!

[NLH Arizona]

I mentioned it because someone else said they observed mostly suite guests using it...no cost to them and that paying guests are not using it as much..... Time will tell...

 

I don't remember reading that someone said it was mostly suite guests, plus I wonder how anyone would know what kind of cabin someone else is in, but I do remember them saying there was no charge to Royal and Penthouse Suite guests.

[Fouremco]

I don't remember reading that someone said it was mostly suite guests, plus I wonder how anyone would know what kind of cabin someone else is in, but I do remember them saying there was no charge to Royal and Penthouse Suite guests.

I don't remember reading that either.

 

Also, I somehow doubt that the guests that book Royal and Penthouse Suites are going to spend a lot of time hanging around the TDBB to knosh on fake Kobe burgers.

[richsea]

I don't remember reading that either.

 

Also, I somehow doubt that the guests that book Royal and Penthouse Suites are going to spend a lot of time hanging around the TDBB to knosh on fake Kobe burgers.

Why do you say that.? Are you saying that people of means do not knosh, or wont stoop to a burger.

[hcat]

I don't remember reading that someone said it was mostly suite guests, plus I wonder how anyone would know what kind of cabin someone else is in, but I do remember them saying there was no charge to Royal and Penthouse Suite guests.[/quote

 

No time to scroll back .... but i thought the post said they observed staff had or kept a list of the guests not having to pay. If that's not what they posted, sorry abt getting it wrong..

 

Not really a big deal "where.'s the beef" .as they used to say.....Point is that lunch options for most of us on pool days have been curtailed by X .....we won't go hungry but just another give back!

[Fouremco]

Why do you say that.? Are you saying that people of means do not knosh, or wont stoop to a burger.

Not all all, only that they aren't going to "spend a lot of time hanging around the TDBB". With free access to all of the specialty restaurants, I wouldn't be eating a lot of fake Kobe burgers at a venue where there is reportedly little seating available.

[Gonzo70]

Wonder how much a real Kobe burger would cost in Kobe, Japan?

 

You'd be hard pressed to find one. Kobe beef is extremely high in fat; much too high a fat ratio to use in a proper burger. A Kobe steak in Japan runs approximately $100 to $500 USD depending on the grade, size, cut and venue. Fortunately Kobe is so rich one does not need a whole lot for it to be satisfying. Also each bite is a little less enjoyable as the fat coats the taste buds, lessening the flavor of each subsequent bite. Imho the best way to enjoy beef of this quality is as a small course as part of a tasting menu. Three to four bites worth is perfect; enough to enjoy but not enough to overwhelm the palate, be too filling or be too prohibitively expensive.

 

Occasionally the trimmings of Kobe beef (or other genuine Wagyu) are used as a portion of a burger (along with leaner types of beef). This is NOT what Celebrity is doing as first you must have access to Kobe beef. A local Michelin 2* venue serves A5 Wagyu (the highest grade for Japanese beef) on their tasting menu, and then their bar menu offers a burger that combines some of the A5 trimmings with domestic beef. While not Kobe beef, they use genuine Wagyu beef (i.e. from Japan) that is fairly similar in quality, cost and taste - just not nearly as rarely imported to the US.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Gonzo70

[TeeRick]

I have learned a lot about Kobe beef here! So the Wagyu cattle grown in a special region of Japan (near the city of Kobe) produce the "official" Kobe beef. Very expensive to the rest of world when exported. If Wagyu cattle are raised anywhere else such as in the US, the resulting beef might be called "Kobe-like" beef or "American Kobe" beef. I think most people would never have tried true Kobe beef unless in Japan so it would be hard to make the taste comparison. I think it is fair for Celebrity to clarify where they source their "Kobe" beef if they are going to charge $10 per burger. I agree that if it is not from Japan then their menu is misleading. But how does anybody here really know beyond speculations and assumptions?

[Gonzo70]

I have learned a lot about Kobe beef here! So the Wagyu cattle grown in a special region of Japan (near the city of Kobe) produce the "official" Kobe beef. Very expensive to the rest of world when exported. If Wagyu cattle are raised anywhere else such as in the US, the resulting beef might be called "Kobe-like" beef or "American Kobe" beef. I think most people would never have tried true Kobe beef unless in Japan so it would be hard to make the taste comparison. I think it is fair for Celebrity to clarify where they source their "Kobe" beef if they are going to charge $10 per burger. I agree that if it is not from Japan then their menu is misleading. But how does anybody here really know beyond speculations and assumptions?

 

Here is how one can know definitively Celebrity does not have genuine Kobe beef:

 

1) Genuine Kobe beef is never used for hot dogs or burgers (except trimmings as a portion of said items).

2) Kobe beef is so expensive an eight ounce burger would cost Celebrity at least $250 in food cost alone.

3) Exported Kobe beef is so rare, in the US as of last summer only about nine venues had actual Kobe beef.

 

American Kobe occasionally is very good quality, but usually this is a marketing scam and much is indistinguishable from generic domestic beef. Restaurants are not regulated in the US in their use of this term. Generally American Kobe is a crossbreed between cattle from Japan (and is not a cow from Kobe region) with Angus cattle. A restaurant in US listing something as American Kobe may be serving something that is 99% domestic angus and 1% Wagyu - or they could even be 100% Angus since it is not regulated. However there are some small farms in the US with very good quality American style Wagyu - but they represent a very small minority of what is marketed in the US as American Kobe or as Wagyu.

 

Here we s a good article from 2016 explaining some of this:

http://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/article/kobe-wagyu-steak-myths

[DYKWIA]

In Europe provenance of good food is taken very seriously.

 

Champagne, Stilton Cheese, Parmesean , Cognac, and I think even the humble Cornish Pasty are among a list of quality products that can only be called by that name if they come from a specific geographic area and made to a certain set of criteria. I don't believe the USA recognises these definitions. hence ordering Champagne in the US could me you end up with any fizzy plonk.

[DYKWIA]

I'll make a contentious point (and then run away) :-)

As the top suites are often booked years in advance, and this burger innovation on constellation seems a relatively recent introduction, there is an argument that those in the suites haven't paid for this feature yet and when you stump up your $10 for your Burger you are in effect subsiding the cost so others can eat free. ;p

[hubofhockey]

So this all relates to a marbling ratio that is quantifiable and the term kobe beef, in the US and other countries, relates to beef reaching that standard. Celebrity is probably using very high quality beef which meets the lower standards as required for certified kobe beef. This could make for a high quality burger. You can enjoy the burgers, ask for Kobe certification, or just stay away from them. As for me, I'm grabbing one for a late lunch on embarkation day in Venice a week from Friday. I'm not seeing the $10 hot dog as a possibility though. As it's the Fourth of July today her back in the USA, I'm grilling my own and it's high quality beef fro Wegmans and will be as good or better than any burger at sea. It's fresh and will be on grilled brioche buns.

[dandee2]

Could it be that the "Kobe" beef name is not protected by international organization like "Champagne" - which can only comes from the Champagne region in France, or even the French "Camembert of Normandie" ??

 

Maybe that can use the name with no restriction.

[Fouremco]

So this all relates to a marbling ratio that is quantifiable and the term kobe beef, in the US and other countries, relates to beef reaching that standard.

You've missed a key element: the cattle must be raised in Japan's Hyogo Prefecture.

[Gonzo70]

Could it be that the "Kobe" beef name is not protected by international organization like "Champagne" - which can only comes from the Champagne region in France, or even the French "Camembert of Normandie" ??

 

Maybe that can use the name with no restriction.

 

There is a good chance it has not been legally challenged yet under such circumstances. Even if the legality has not been established for a cruise line to falsely advertise the sourcing of their beef, it is clearly deceitful and unethical behavior.

[Gonzo70]

So this all relates to a marbling ratio that is quantifiable and the term kobe beef, in the US and other countries, relates to beef reaching that standard. Celebrity is probably using very high quality beef which meets the lower standards as required for certified kobe beef. This could make for a high quality burger. You can enjoy the burgers, ask for Kobe certification, or just stay away from them. As for me, I'm grabbing one for a late lunch on embarkation day in Venice a week from Friday. I'm not seeing the $10 hot dog as a possibility though. As it's the Fourth of July today her back in the USA, I'm grilling my own and it's high quality beef fro Wegmans and will be as good or better than any burger at sea. It's fresh and will be on grilled brioche buns.

 

The thing is Kobe beef actually makes for a poor choice for burgers. Ideally burgers have about a 20% fat content; too little fat makes the burger dry and prone to falling apart. Too much fat and the burger becomes too greasy and can make the bun a mushy mess. Kobe beef is well over 20% fat.

 

While Celebrity might be using good quality beef, because they are engaging in false advertising I am highly skeptical. If they were using USDA dry aged prime (or even choice) that could make for an excellent burger (depending on the storage, cuts used, temperature, quality of bun and other ingredients etc.). I would think they would proudly state on the menu if they were using USDA dry aged prime. $10 is an excellent price for 8oz of beef of that grade. That they are lying and calling it Kobe beef makes me think the beef is not all that high quality. Either that or whoever came up with the name they are using on the menu is comepletely clueless.