Federal Judge considers sanctions affecting Carnival that could affect cruises

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

As would I.  More than one person dropped this ball.  And it is a big ball.

We all heard the thump

[Organized Chaos]

22 minutes ago, broberts said:

True, the company has not been accused of directly lying to the judge. But don't you think falsifying documents that court appointed auditors may have relied on is essentially lying to the judge?

 

It most certainly is a slap in the face to the judge who ordered the audits/inspections. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say they lied. They agreed to get their act together, then continued the illegal activities and, at least, the violations. They've shown little respect for the orders put in place, so my guess is, that's why the judge is threatening to take even more serious actions. I don't see how anyone can deny Carnival Corp. screwed up bigtime, and that's an understatement. There's no defending their actions during all of this. It's time to buck up, take their licks, learn from it, and move on to be a better corporation.

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

It most certainly is a slap in the face to the judge who ordered the audits/inspections. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say they lied. They agreed to get their act together, then continued the illegal activities and, at least, the violations. They've shown little respect for the orders put in place, so my guess is, that's why the judge is threatening to take even more serious actions. I don't see how anyone can deny Carnival Corp. screwed up bigtime, and that's an understatement. There's no defending their actions during all of this. It's time to buck up, take their licks, learn from it, and move on to be a better corporation.

Did anyone deny it?

[evandbob]

Some posters further back thought the criminal violations, actions or non-actions of Carnival weren't serious, and many, many posters main concern was if their cruise would be affected.  Only a few posters actually stressed the environmental damage done,  but the majority were like "so what?"

[bury me at sea]

14 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

We all heard the thump

 

Indeed.

 

I was cruising last week on the delightful Freedom so it has taken me awhile to catch up on this subject.

 

We aren't discussing the complaints of first time posters, or cutbacks, or once a day cabin service, or charging for room service.

 

This goes far beyond customer dissatisfaction.  I repeat the entire board and some upper management should be replaced.  This cannot be blamed on lower level personnel who followed orders given with a wink and a nod.

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

Indeed.

 

I was cruising last week on the delightful Freedom so it has taken me awhile to catch up on this subject.

 

We aren't discussing the complaints of first time posters, or cutbacks, or once a day cabin service, or charging for room service.

 

This goes far beyond customer dissatisfaction.  I repeat the entire board and some upper management should be replaced.  This cannot be blamed on lower level personnel who followed orders given with a wink and a nod.

Clearly done across multiples of their lines.  Corp has to take the blame, but I would be more than shocked if we saw a CEO step on the sword, corporate officer maybe.  Micky, Donald...do not see it, ind CEO's would be surprising, possibly after a huge fine and stock hit....

[jimbo5544]

Can actually see this be written up after the fact like a Harvard business school study....(depending what happens).....

[bury me at sea]

19 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Clearly done across multiples of their lines.  Corp has to take the blame, but I would be more than shocked if we saw a CEO step on the sword, corporate officer maybe.  Micky, Donald...do not see it, ind CEO's would be surprising, possibly after a huge fine and stock hit....

 

If unwilling to fall on his/her sword, certainly unfit to continue in current position.

 

Do we really need a Brutus to get rid of the people ultimately responsible?

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Yes, but I am partly serious.

OK, fair enough. I really doubt it will come to a ban, but if it did, I guess you could've some new ships available,  whether they could get different port times for sailings from Australia to available ports might be an issue, but not a huge one. Getting fuel together there without stopping in a US port (from wherever they would be when the ban occurred to other than a US port).All speed bumps but not road blocks.

[jimbo5544]

19 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

If unwilling to fall on his/her sword, certainly unfit to continue in current position.

 

Do we really need a Brutus to get rid of the people ultimately responsible?

Only the Board knows..... guess it could be the Ides of June....Et Tu Brute

[bury me at sea]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Only the Board knows..... guess it could be the Ides of June....Et Tu Brute

 

The Ides of June made me laugh out loud.

 

Touche jimbo!

[jbethel11]

7 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

The Ides of June made me laugh out loud.

 

Touche jimbo!

1

Funny how Shakespeare's Julius Caesar could perhaps be premonitory to what happens to Carnival Corp. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by jbethel11

[jimbo5544]

18 minutes ago, jbethel11 said:

Funny how Shakespeare's Julius Caesar could perhaps be premonitory to what happens to Carnival Corp. 

Bet they are not laughing.... certainly a tragedy...

[Micahs Grandad]

57 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Bet they are not laughing.... certainly a tragedy...

More like a disgrace.

[jimbo5544]

19 minutes ago, Micah's Grandad said:

More like a disgrace.

Yeah....but it did not fit the Shakespeare reference...

Edited April 15, 2019 by jimbo5544

[bdever]

3 hours ago, evandbob said:

Some posters further back thought the criminal violations, actions or non-actions of Carnival weren't serious, and many, many posters main concern was if their cruise would be affected.  Only a few posters actually stressed the environmental damage done,  but the majority were like "so what?"

Yes indeed, the last thing I am worried about are my two booked cruises for June and December. Would it be an inconvenience if my cruises were cancelled? Yes. What was done to our planet and wildlife (those poor whales, dolphins and seals) Carnival was deliberate and inexcusable. I hope they get the book thrown at them. If they can’t dock in US ports good! I’ll survive! God please forgive us of these sins. 

I hope the judge demands a sea steward on every Carnival held ship for all sailings for the next 5 years & to pay all salaries PLUS full benefits of Sea Stewards. That’s just a wish I had this morning thinking about this. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by bdever
Addition

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, bury me at sea said:

 

I believe you are correct.  A much lower bar would be applicable at this point.

Thank you for confirming what I thought was true.

6 hours ago, bury me at sea said:

This is levels and more levels beyond serious.  I can't help but believe the entire board of directors should be replaced, and a lot of heads in top management should roll.

 

Shareholder value of the moment cannot continue to be the top priority.  We are talking about survival.

And I agree with the rest of your post which is why I earlier posted that I wish I had not voted my proxy before I knew this information.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Yeah....but it did not fit the Shakespeare reference...

But Shakespeare was more into Theatre than Carnival.

[jbethel11]

2 hours ago, bdever said:

Yes indeed, the last thing I am worried about are my two booked cruises for June and December. Would it be an inconvenience if my cruises were cancelled? Yes. What was done to our planet and wildlife (those poor whales, dolphins and seals) Carnival was deliberate and inexcusable. I hope they get the book thrown at them. If they can’t dock in US ports good! I’ll survive! God please forgive us of these sins. 

I hope the judge demands a sea steward on every Carnival held ship for all sailings for the next 5 years & to pay all salaries PLUS full benefits of Sea Stewards. That’s just a wish I had this morning thinking about this. 

I feel really bad for all of the marine life that goes on. If my Carnival cruise gets canceled, I will just find an MSC, NCL or Norwegian cruise to go on. Not a HUGE deal. 

[Cafedumonde]

And yet their stock is doing fine.  The market disagrees with the majority of people posting on this forum.  I am surprised how quick to slam CCL many cc posters are.  

Edited April 15, 2019 by Cafedumonde

[MicCanberra]

34 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

And yet their stock is doing fine.  The market disagrees with the majority of people posting on this forum.  I am surprised how quick to slam CCL many cc posters are.  

The stock has recovered slightly but I wouldn't call and 11% drop in stocks fine. Whatever the decision in June, the stocks will take another hit.

[Cafedumonde]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

The stock has recovered slightly but I wouldn't call and 11% drop in stocks fine. Whatever the decision in June, the stocks will take another hit.

The stock has not gone down since this news came out.  It dipped a bit a week or so ago because CCL revised earnings downward for the year.

[ProgRockCruiser]

On 4/12/2019 at 2:06 PM, CdrescherRBL152 said:

The ban will never happen and here is way. Just the port of Miami gets roughly $100,000,000 per year from Carnival. That is just Fock fee. Does not include such things additional security, long shormen, money from Hotels and airfare. Add it all up the ban round come close to  a billion dollar a year hit to local economies. Nope the ban will never come to be.

 

A minor anecdote to support this conclusion:

 

As I am sure many of you know, recently there was that crane collapse on Oasis of the Seas while getting some upgrades.  RC had to cancel three sailings as a result.

 

Some news-sites had articles about how the cancellations would impact local business:.  E.g.:

 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2019/04/05/port-hotels-take-financial-hit-after-royal-caribbean-cancels-three-cruises/3373914002/

 

Maybe some of that was played up for drama, maybe it is accurate.  But that was one ship, three sailings.

 

Now imagine every single Carnival Corp cruise out of the US getting cancelled for months/years.  Local businesses would be horrified.

 

IMHO, Carnival should be hit with a huge fine (waaaaay bigger than the previous $40M), with observers and compliance officers all over the place for many years, all at Carnival's cost, and probably some heads should roll - hopefully the details of the findings will reveal where the true decay happened, rather than some symbolic changes at the top of leaders who may not have been aware of how the transgressions conspired.  If the C-levels and/or board did know, then they should indeed go.  But obviously there was malpractice at lower levels for this to occur so apparently regularly.

Edited April 15, 2019 by ProgRockCruiser

[missholly24]

21 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Paul, I just can't get over the fact that they apparently didn't do any compliance training, as this should have been a significant part of the probation, and with this training and corporate audits at surprise intervals, rather than "how to beat the audit" notes, they would have inculcated an environmental compliance culture from the top down.

I agree. Working in a hospital we have been “put on probation” so to say. The results were system wide. We had multiple days of compliance training for our citations and our faulty processes were completely overhauled. I rounded with the federal auditor when she came back for our follow up and that was the main thing she asked about. How did you change the system to fix the problem?? She was satisfied. 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

...

Now imagine every single Carnival Corp cruise out of the US getting cancelled for months/years.  Local businesses would be horrified.

...

 

I'm not sure why so many seem to think that the judge is considering a length ban. I suspect it more likely that she thinking of a day or two ban. That would be sufficient to cause Carnival a substantial amount with maximum negative publicity at a minimal negative economic impact.