Holland America Sucks!

[Shmoo here]

17 minutes ago, mcirv said:

I could have saved about $800 on the cruise and booked 2 weeks later and paid full fare for the same room.  This is why I believe Holland America Sucks!

Did you check that out when you made the original reservation?  

[mcirv]

I did not see that until later.

 

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, mcirv said:

After much complaining on the way it was handled, I was called on day we were supposed to fly to New Zealand and told that if I wanted to go I could and have the Veranda that I originally booked. When I asked about the "Oversale" I was told that they weren't really oversold.  That tells me that it is a game they play because most people will continue with the downgraded room and take the trip.

 

Perhaps there was a cancellation which freed up the Veranda???

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, mcirv said:

I did not see that until later.

 

 

Here's an open secret about HAL. It is joining the ranks of the budget cruise brands. Read the comments here...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2708559-changes-at-the-top/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-58844616

 

There have been such a serious problem with filling the ships on some itineraries that deep deep discounts have been available, as much as a year in advance.

 

Forget about interline fares. If you are flexible about the departure date and port, just pick one of the bargain deals. Some people even boast that they cancel their reservation (forfeiting the deposit), rebook for an upgrade, and still save money.

 

 

[doublebzz]

3 hours ago, mcirv said:

What some of you don't seem to understand is that I was ok with the the chance of a downgrade. The problem that I had is that I originally booked a Veranda. I was later assigned a room on level 4 and then talked into joining their club orange which among other things included an (upgrade) to a better Veranda location.  When i was downgraded 6 days before departure, I was not offered a refund on the club orange or the difference in the fare of the Veranda to the Ocean view.  

As an interline eligible traveler, I sympathize with your situation.  If you were downgraded to an oceanview, then you should have received the difference between the interline fare for a veranda and an oceanview unless they were the same.  What would have happened if you were cancelled altogether - would they not have not have returned your fare?

Most of the disparaging remarks aimed at you are probably motivated by people jealous they don't enjoy the interline perk.  Also, as one contributor has indicated, special rates are a two way street.  Cruise lines' first priority is to fill cabins and that's the  reason these rates are offered in the first place.  Secondly, the assertion that interline rates are substantially discounted may or may not be true.  In fact, I am booked on a January HAL cruise a regular rate which, with included on board credits, was several hundred dollars cheaper than the interline rate.

[Storylady]

Are interline rates refundable?
No, interline rates are not refundable. Cancellation penalties will depend on the cruise line.

 

“Op plainly stated that he cancelled his cruise.”

 

What if the rate drops after deposit has been made?
If a rate goes down and the booking has not been paid in full and we are not past the final payment date,
we should be able to adjust it for you. Some lines charge an "admin fee" if we need to cancel
and re-book in order to adjust the rate.

 

”He paid more for the veranda and knew he could get bumped. This would be the same as the price going down. Since it was after the final due date”, he didn’t get a refund.

 

Do you recommend Travel Protection?
We recommend that you purchase a travel protection plan to help protect you and your travel investment
against the unexpected. Travel protection plans can include coverage for Trip Cancellation, Trip
Interruption, Emergency Medical and Emergency Evacuation / Repatriation, Trip Delay, Baggage Delay
and more.  
 

“i wonder if he took out travel insurance?”

 

Would it be a good idea for me to share how much I paid with fellow guests?
Absolutely not. Interline rates are a privileged fare and should not be shared with other passengers.
We have had lines threaten to cancel their interline program because of guests bragging
about the rate they paid.

 

“He really hasn’t said much about price, but did mention how much he would have saved. His thread and complaint might lose the possibility of interlining for others.”

 

Link below is from the rules of Interlining at Sea. I guess he should have read them. He should be thankful that this is the first time this has happened to him. 

 

http://www.absea.com/html/faq.cfm?

 

As for why people are not understanding, it has nothing to do with jealousy, it has to do with his choice of words in his title of this thread and his feeling of being entitled to a refund despite the rules.

[RuthC]

59 minutes ago, Storylady said:

As for why people are not understanding, it has nothing to do with jealousy, it has to do with his choice of words in his title of this thread and his feeling of being entitled to a refund despite the rules.

The sense of entitlement is palpable. 

[VennDiagram]

1 hour ago, Storylady said:

Are interline rates refundable?
No, interline rates are not refundable. Cancellation penalties will depend on the cruise line.

 

“Op plainly stated that he cancelled his cruise.”

 

What if the rate drops after deposit has been made?
If a rate goes down and the booking has not been paid in full and we are not past the final payment date,
we should be able to adjust it for you. Some lines charge an "admin fee" if we need to cancel
and re-book in order to adjust the rate.

 

”He paid more for the veranda and knew he could get bumped. This would be the same as the price going down. Since it was after the final due date”, he didn’t get a refund.

 

Do you recommend Travel Protection?
We recommend that you purchase a travel protection plan to help protect you and your travel investment
against the unexpected. Travel protection plans can include coverage for Trip Cancellation, Trip
Interruption, Emergency Medical and Emergency Evacuation / Repatriation, Trip Delay, Baggage Delay
and more.  
 

“i wonder if he took out travel insurance?”

 

Would it be a good idea for me to share how much I paid with fellow guests?
Absolutely not. Interline rates are a privileged fare and should not be shared with other passengers.
We have had lines threaten to cancel their interline program because of guests bragging
about the rate they paid.

 

“He really hasn’t said much about price, but did mention how much he would have saved. His thread and complaint might lose the possibility of interlining for others.”

 

Link below is from the rules of Interlining at Sea. I guess he should have read them. He should be thankful that this is the first time this has happened to him. 

 

http://www.absea.com/html/faq.cfm?

 

As for why people are not understanding, it has nothing to do with jealousy, it has to do with his choice of words in his title of this thread and his feeling of being entitled to a refund despite the rules.

 

 

Brava @Storylady

 

To add to your comment about why people are "not understanding", I question the OP's reasoning for refusing to sail.  The money is paid, and there is no refund (unless there is some sort of travel insurance we haven't been told about).  I see zero reason, unless the OP was thinking/hoping the entire fare would be refunded.

I have zero jealousy about interline rates and those who qualify for them.  I know several people who have lost flights, and vacations, at the last minute because they have booked an interline  or "buddy" rate.

Edited November 27, 2019 by VennDiagram

[kazu]

3 hours ago, doublebzz said:

Most of the disparaging remarks aimed at you are probably motivated by people jealous they don't enjoy the interline perk. 

 

I think you are in error on this point - at least as far as it goes to my comments and I suspect others.  Here’s how I see it in a nutshell:

 

The OP started out complaining and it was assumed he had a regular booking since he/she/they  didn’t reveal until asked it was interline.

I am not at all jealous.  I know well what goes with it and the terms and conditions

 

If the OP didn’t want to live by them or recognize them or chose to sabotage their own cruise by cancelling it and losing their fare rather than talking to someone, that was their choice.

 

Sorry, but you don’t cancel after final payment and expect your money back.  It doesn’t happen.  But, you can be proactive if you have been shortchanged and reach for supervisors and get it fixed.  JMO.

 

 

 

[awhcruiser]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Where do you find these alleged bargain deals?

Here's an open secret about HAL. It is joining the ranks of the budget cruise brands. Read the comments here...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2708559-changes-at-the-top/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-58844616

 

There have been such a serious problem with filling the ships on some itineraries that deep deep discounts have been available, as much as a year in advance.

 

Forget about interline fares. If you are flexible about the departure date and port, just pick one of the bargain deals. Some people even boast that they cancel their reservation (forfeiting the deposit), rebook for an upgrade, and still save money.

 

 

 

[*Miss G*]

7 hours ago, doublebzz said:

Most of the disparaging remarks aimed at you are probably motivated by people jealous they don't enjoy the interline perk. 

 

I think you underestimate the intelligence of the posters on the HAL forum.

[doublebzz]

1 hour ago, *Miss G* said:

 

I think you underestimate the intelligence of the posters on the HAL forum.

Not "intelligence" but sensitivity as evidenced by these and other comments:

"The fact that this person is complaining about a benefit really grinds my gears."

"Its a shame OP doesn't appreciate the opportunity he/she has, take advantage of when he/she can and keep his/her mouth shut."

"You have no legitimate complaint."

"Yes the OP should know better"

"The sense of entitlement is palpable"

A number of responders have discussed deeply discounted  rates often a year in advance which often may be lower than an interline rate.  Should these folks also be obligated to keep their mouth shut  and "suck it up" if they feel mistreated by the cruise line? 

 

 

[SumoCitrus]

Maybe we just don’t like complainers - especially when the problem is self induced.

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, doublebzz said:

Not "intelligence" but sensitivity as evidenced by these and other comments:

"The fact that this person is complaining about a benefit really grinds my gears."

"Its a shame OP doesn't appreciate the opportunity he/she has, take advantage of when he/she can and keep his/her mouth shut."

"You have no legitimate complaint."

"Yes the OP should know better"

"The sense of entitlement is palpable"

A number of responders have discussed deeply discounted  rates often a year in advance which often may be lower than an interline rate.  Should these folks also be obligated to keep their mouth shut  and "suck it up" if they feel mistreated by the cruise line? 

 

 

There’s a big difference between fare that is available to the public and one that is a benefit of employment. And one of the terms of that benefit is you don’t discuss it in detail publicly.

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, doublebzz said:

Not "intelligence" but sensitivity as evidenced by these and other comments:

"The fact that this person is complaining about a benefit really grinds my gears."

"Its a shame OP doesn't appreciate the opportunity he/she has, take advantage of when he/she can and keep his/her mouth shut."

"You have no legitimate complaint."

"Yes the OP should know better"

"The sense of entitlement is palpable"

A number of responders have discussed deeply discounted  rates often a year in advance which often may be lower than an interline rate.  Should these folks also be obligated to keep their mouth shut  and "suck it up" if they feel mistreated by the cruise line? 

 

 

There’s a big difference between fare that is available to the public and one that is a benefit of employment. And one of the terms of that benefit is you don’t discuss it in detail publicly.

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

There’s a big difference between fare that is available to the public and one that is a benefit of employment. And one of the terms of that benefit is you don’t discuss it in detail publicly.

 

Actually, I think that the OP has done a public service by warning us about the way HAL handles interline fares.

 

As Despegue has noted in post 23...

 

"ps. Royal Caribbean/ Celebrity offers guaranteed Interline offers. "

[RocketMan275]

6 hours ago, doublebzz said:

A number of responders have discussed deeply discounted  rates often a year in advance which often may be lower than an interline rate.  Should these folks also be obligated to keep their mouth shut  and "suck it up" if they feel mistreated by the cruise line? 

The question is: was OP justified in 'feeling mistreated' because the cruise line follow the rules.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Actually, I think that the OP has done a public service by warning us about the way HAL handles interline fares.

 

As Despegue has noted in post 23...

 

"ps. Royal Caribbean/ Celebrity offers guaranteed Interline offers. "

What RCI or X offers is irrelevant to the question of whether Holland followed the rules of their offer.

[Mosaic]

The people who have complained about the OP post are complainers....

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The question is: was OP justified in 'feeling mistreated' because the cruise line follow the rules.

 

Normally, I wouldn't bother to answer your post. However, your assertions are problematic.

 

In the first place, have you downloaded, read and understood the FULL contract you have with HAL as a passenger?

 

In an international commercial contract, there's usually a clause that specifics what jurisdiction will be used to resolve legal issues.

 

Consumer contracts are problematic, as they have been written by companies for their benefit. That's why companies have been challenged in class action law suits, and lost.

 

Regardless of what's said in a contract, it must be consistent with general contract law in whatever legal system has jurisdiction.

 

Another problem is that consumer contracts rarely specify the company's obligations in every situation. Therefore, the company interprets the contract as they see fit. Hence the need for some oversight by the government and the courts.

 

Finally, each company enforces its contract in its own way. Some are more generous. Some classes of customers may receive favorable treatment. So, it's useful to share information about the brand.

 

BTW, I have no legal training. Hope that some legal beagle can chip in.

 

 

[HAL4NOW]

12 hours ago, doublebzz said:

 

A number of responders have discussed deeply discounted  rates often a year in advance which often may be lower than an interline rate.  Should these folks also be obligated to keep their mouth shut  and "suck it up" if they feel mistreated by the cruise line? 

 

A few years back we received a free upgrade to a mini-suite from a balcony on an Alaska NCL cruise. We had purchased the balcony cabin at a substantial discount. During one of our excursions another couple began to ask how much we had paid for the mini-suite and I regret sharing the price with them. The look on their face, when they heard we had paid less for what we received than they had paid for an inside cabin, hit me hard. I think I made a cruise that they had been enjoying less enjoyable through that revelation. 

 

[YXU AC*SE]

FYI:   current (as of ydy) interline rates and sailings offered:   https://media.hollandamerica.com/pdf/INT-current.pdf   Some are pretty good (especially for departures within a fortnight) but a lot a volume-based agent can match, or even get under.     Scott.  

Edited November 28, 2019 by YXU AC*SE

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Normally, I wouldn't bother to answer your post. However, your assertions are problematic.

I asserted nothing. I asked a question:  "was OP justified in 'feeling mistreated' because the cruise line follow the rules."  Clearly, that isn't the case.  And, to answer, your question, yes, I have read the entire cruise contract.  And, yes, I do have quite a bit of experience in writing, managing, and interpreting contracts.  

[SetAnOpenCourse]

It seems to me that HAL is at fault for (apparently) actively selling CO that included an cabin upgrade, then downgrading.  And if it truly was a wrong, I cannot blame the OP for complaining, regardless of the code or custom of silence for interline travelers.

As for the amount lost between the originally booked verandah and the OV, it sounds like the OP needs to “eat” that one (based on explanations of interline here), and publicly complaining of this part was wrong.

[RocketMan275]

37 minutes ago, SetAnOpenCourse said:

It seems to me that HAL is at fault for (apparently) actively selling CO that included an cabin upgrade, then downgrading.  And if it truly was a wrong, I cannot blame the OP for complaining, regardless of the code or custom of silence for interline travelers.

As for the amount lost between the originally booked verandah and the OV, it sounds like the OP needs to “eat” that one (based on explanations of interline here), and publicly complaining of this part was wrong.

The CO upgrade is conditional on availability.