Agent changed my reservation to NRD without my permission

[rimmit]

1 minute ago, awestover89 said:

 

No, NRD can not be made refundable through normal channels. In a case of clear error (which I believe this should fall under) it can be escalated to resolutions and changed, but that's the exception not the rule.

That is a big exception.   I have been on RCI since the early 1990s and am D+ and they refused to budge when my TA made an error.  No amount of calling and writing to resolutions got anything accomplished. Again,  YMMV with anything RCI.

[awestover89]

5 minutes ago, rimmit said:

That is a big exception.   I have been on RCI since the early 1990s and am D+ and they refused to budge when my TA made an error.  No amount of calling and writing to resolutions got anything accomplished. Again,  YMMV with anything RCI.

 

I think it would depend on the TA, how much effort they're willing to put into making it right, and their contacts. Honestly, if I made that screw up I wouldn't even try to get Royal to make an exception myself, I'd go through my BDM (Business Development Manager) who's basically the bridge person between my agency and Royal Caribbean. They have more pull than I would and would have a better chance.

 

But if the TA doesn't want to admit they screwed up, or is worried that it will reflect poorly on them they may not really fight for it as hard as they should.

[Ourusualbeach]

47 minutes ago, awestover89 said:

 

I think it would depend on the TA, how much effort they're willing to put into making it right, and their contacts. Honestly, if I made that screw up I wouldn't even try to get Royal to make an exception myself, I'd go through my BDM (Business Development Manager) who's basically the bridge person between my agency and Royal Caribbean. They have more pull than I would and would have a better chance.

 

But if the TA doesn't want to admit they screwed up, or is worried that it will reflect poorly on them they may not really fight for it as hard as they should.

Agree.  Exceptions can certainly be made, it’s knowing the right contact.  In this case the prudent thing to do would have been to address this ASAP.  Then longer it waits the less likely a positive resolution.  

[LMaxwell]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:08 PM, tomservo said:

She asked me what to tell the resolutions department when they ask why didn't I upgrade with her.

 

"Nunya" 

[tinkertwo]

Just from what I have read by the OP, I to see this as fault on both sides.  He/she asked to see if there was a price drop, TA saw a price drop, he/she said book it.  I am not reading at any point in this where the op said to make sure the price drop stays on a RD nor do I see where the TA tells the client that the price drop was on a NRD.  What I see is that both parties used assumptions to complete the transactions.  Both parties!  Op assumed the TA would know he/she wanted it to stay a RD, TA assumed op wanted the best price and since it was not clarified it needed to stay a RD she responded with the best price.  Op said yes.  So again, both parties.  

[jsf]

Intesting thread but now how can I tell if my booking is non or refundable deposit? Is it in my booking invoice or somewhere else?

[Clarea]

23 minutes ago, jsf said:

Intesting thread but now how can I tell if my booking is non or refundable deposit? Is it in my booking invoice or somewhere else?

 

It's on your PDF booking confirmation.  Look for "NRD".  If you see that, it's a non-refundable deposit.

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, tinkertwo said:

What I see is that both parties used assumptions to complete the transactions.  Both parties!  Op assumed the TA would know he/she wanted it to stay a RD, TA assumed op wanted the best price and since it was not clarified it needed to stay a RD she responded with the best price.  Op said yes.  So again, both parties.  

 

I see it slightly differently.  Why would OP have any presumption of the booking type changing for a price drop?  OP is not trained by the company or authorized as an agent to sell its products and while I can agree OP likely did not ask if the deposit type changed, it is unreasonable to expect that the layperson would expect the terms and conditions of what they had purchased and had a confirmation of to change simply for taking advantage of a lower price.  I also agree with you that the TA acted in a manner to obtain the lowest possible price at that time, but they would absolutely know the deposit type/terms would change (for any given case, for example). 

 

I think the TA made a mistake and instead of owning the mistake is throwing up a roadblock about the OP's other booking.  Whatever reason OP had to make their own booking is not the basis for debate.  Instead of "double booking" let's say OP wasn't planning to go anywhere, and wanted to simply cancel with TA and get refund.  The current situation would be the same; the TA could not provide the refund. 

 

However, any time I have had any sort of change to my booking I get a new email with my booking information and review it.  I know that Royal Caribbean allows a no penalty 24 cancellation on NEW bookings if booked non-refundable; I don't know their terms for switching from RD to NRD.  But it seems it took OP much longer to recognize the issue here.  

 

For what it is worth, just throwing this out there, Carnival has a widget on their website where you plug in your booking number, regardless of where you booked, and it will tell you if you are in any kind of penalty phase and how much at that time.  At the very least OP could have plugged their number in for quick reference and discovered the issue before making the second booking if RCI had a similar feature.  This would also likely save on call center volume.   I am not blaming OP for making their second booking, by the way, sometimes when an opportunity arises you have to snag it.  

 

So while I agree with many of your points, I see it just differently enough to shift more of the blame to the agent.  

 

I don't think it is wrong to ask those selling a product for more transparency and not expect that the customer be the subject matter expert.  CC is full of what Malcolm Gladwell would call mavens and there is plenty of incorrect or contradictory information shared here, so again, have to expect those who earn a living selling products to know them and be accurate with them, or else admit fault and own up to it.  

Edited December 14, 2019 by LMaxwell

[soremekun]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:02 PM, JennyB1977 said:

This maybe a "dumb" question or beside the point...

 

Why bother using a TA if you're going to do any of the work yourself? If I have to monitor sales, upgrades, etc. I sure as heck am not going to let someone earn commission on my booking.

There are TAs that monitor for price drops.

[tinkertwo]

4 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

I see it slightly differently.  Why would OP have any presumption of the booking type changing for a price drop?  OP is not trained by the company or authorized as an agent to sell its products and while I can agree OP likely did not ask if the deposit type changed, it is unreasonable to expect that the layperson would expect the terms and conditions of what they had purchased and had a confirmation of to change simply for taking advantage of a lower price.  I also agree with you that the TA acted in a manner to obtain the lowest possible price at that time, but they would absolutely know the deposit type/terms would change (for any given case, for example). 

 

I think the TA made a mistake and instead of owning the mistake is throwing up a roadblock about the OP's other booking.  Whatever reason OP had to make their own booking is not the basis for debate.  Instead of "double booking" let's say OP wasn't planning to go anywhere, and wanted to simply cancel with TA and get refund.  The current situation would be the same; the TA could not provide the refund. 

 

However, any time I have had any sort of change to my booking I get a new email with my booking information and review it.  I know that Royal Caribbean allows a no penalty 24 cancellation on NEW bookings if booked non-refundable; I don't know their terms for switching from RD to NRD.  But it seems it took OP much longer to recognize the issue here.  

 

For what it is worth, just throwing this out there, Carnival has a widget on their website where you plug in your booking number, regardless of where you booked, and it will tell you if you are in any kind of penalty phase and how much at that time.  At the very least OP could have plugged their number in for quick reference and discovered the issue before making the second booking if RCI had a similar feature.  This would also likely save on call center volume.   I am not blaming OP for making their second booking, by the way, sometimes when an opportunity arises you have to snag it.  

 

So while I agree with many of your points, I see it just differently enough to shift more of the blame to the agent.  

 

I don't think it is wrong to ask those selling a product for more transparency and not expect that the customer be the subject matter expert.  CC is full of what Malcolm Gladwell would call mavens and there is plenty of incorrect or contradictory information shared here, so again, have to expect those who earn a living selling products to know them and be accurate with them, or else admit fault and own up to it.  

Totally agree, second booking has no bearing on the issue.  You also brought up a very good point that I had not thought about.  That is your point about reviewing the contract when the TA sends it to you.  Had the op done that he/she may have caught the error then and there which may (or may not) have helped with the issue being cleared up in a timely manner and not dragged on for some time.  This I see as another of the reasons I believe the fault lies with both parties, it just adds another dimension.  

1) had the op stated he/she was looking for a better price in a RD 

2) had the TA requested clarification before looking at pricing

3) had the op requested clarification before saying yes

4) had the op perused the contract when he received it

I understand, and agree with, your point that the TA should be more aware however I feel I have some responsibility when it comes to my booking, either when placing the booking myself or having an TA book it for me.  I use Costco and not one change goes by without me verifying what has been done to the point where I am satisfied with the outcome.  

I just, in good faith, can not only put the onus on the TA.  JMO and certainly not meant to state anyone else's opinion is wrong.  Only how I see it.  

[ONECRUISER]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:02 PM, JennyB1977 said:

This maybe a "dumb" question or beside the point...

 

Why bother using a TA if you're going to do any of the work yourself? If I have to monitor sales, upgrades, etc. I sure as heck am not going to let someone earn commission on my booking.

Agree, havent used TA in 20+ yrs. Most time do all my own work, something trivial nontime I text Royal do the work... Lot of times NFD is cheaper, some not, gotta watch it. Seen few Cruises have seen the Refundable at high as $950+ more just for me

Edited December 14, 2019 by ONECRUISER

[Oceansaway17]

Well just to let everyone know, some cruise lines like HAL when you ask for any changes to your booking, it becomes a new number and you will get caught up in whatever prevailing rules are in tact.  To them it is a new reservation with exception of lower price most of the time.

So ask the question if your change will get a new booking number. 

 

All cruise lines are playing games with deposits.

 

Do not get so excited about making changes for better deal unless you ask questions.

 

They will not volunteer information that benefits the customer. ASK AWAY FIRST.

[cruisinfanatic]

2 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Agree, havent used TA in 20+ yrs. Most time do all my own work, something trivial nontime I text Royal do the work... Lot of times NFD is cheaper, some not, gotta watch it. Seen few Cruises have seen the Refundable at high as $950+ more just for me

Non refundable is always cheaper. If it wasn't there would be no incentive and everyone would book refundable

[gatour]

On 12/12/2019 at 5:53 PM, rimmit said:

That is a big exception.   I have been on RCI since the early 1990s and am D+ and they refused to budge when my TA made an error.  No amount of calling and writing to resolutions got anything accomplished. Again,  YMMV with anything RCI.

Please let me help me understand this.  Your TA is an independent TA or works for a company that is not directly associated with RCCL.  While it would be nice for RCCL to work with the TA, it is ultimately the TA to take responsibility for the mistake.  I read through your other replies and am not sure if the above is related to one or more of the posts.

 

If it is the former case, it sounds like when you transferred your reservation to the TA, and then asked them book at the lower rate, they did not properly inform you the rate was for a NRD.  If the above was a different booking, then again it was a TA issue.  So in either case it would be nice that RCCL be a bit more flexible they really don't have any obligation to do so.

 

Unless I am missing something, your ultimate beef should be with the travel agent(s) for their lack of communication about what type of rate (RD or NRD) that you are being booked under.

[rimmit]

21 minutes ago, gatour said:

Please let me help me understand this.  Your TA is an independent TA or works for a company that is not directly associated with RCCL.  While it would be nice for RCCL to work with the TA, it is ultimately the TA to take responsibility for the mistake.  I read through your other replies and am not sure if the above is related to one or more of the posts.

 

If it is the former case, it sounds like when you transferred your reservation to the TA, and then asked them book at the lower rate, they did not properly inform you the rate was for a NRD.  If the above was a different booking, then again it was a TA issue.  So in either case it would be nice that RCCL be a bit more flexible they really don't have any obligation to do so.

 

Unless I am missing something, your ultimate beef should be with the travel agent(s) for their lack of communication about what type of rate (RD or NRD) that you are being booked under.

You are confusing me for the OP and combining bits and pieces of mine and the OP story.  
 

Ultimately,  in my situation as well as the OP situation the TA is primarily at fault.  If you read all my posts, RCI would not budge regarding the TA error and neither would my TA.  We left our TA taking our bookings with us.  A month or two later when our FCC was still not issued,  we contacted RCI and they issued the FCC for $600 AND refunded 500 onto my CC.  We came out $100 ahead of our $1000 deposit (we had 4 $250 deposits)Somehow our TA through the pestering likely confused RCI.  Given her efforts,   For future cruises we did go back to her as she did get our money back and more.

Edited December 14, 2019 by rimmit

[ONECRUISER]

2 hours ago, cruisinfanatic said:

Non refundable is always cheaper. If it wasn't there would be no incentive and everyone would book refundable

Nope, surprisingly not always... But that's Royal

Edited December 14, 2019 by ONECRUISER

[mayleeman]

Seems pretty easy to check an invoice and notice it says NRD. The OP obviously knows the difference, does all their own work in finding bookings, and agrees to a price drop without wanting to know the details or checking the paperwork for price & payment info? Seems very strange disconnect between their usual pattern of total involvement and inattention in this case. 

[rimmit]

5 hours ago, mayleeman said:

Seems pretty easy to check an invoice and notice it says NRD. The OP obviously knows the difference, does all their own work in finding bookings, and agrees to a price drop without wanting to know the details or checking the paperwork for price & payment info? Seems very strange disconnect between their usual pattern of total involvement and inattention in this case. 

Most TAs I have worked with have separate invoices from RCI.  When booking with a big box TA, or just a smaller TA I don’t think I have ever seen the RCI invoice.

 

In this case the TA is responsible for sending a correct invoice.  Our TA (who has messed up in the past regarding this same issue) now has in BRIGHT BOLD RED letters when it is Nonrefundable.   Prior to our incident she had never had refundable vs non refundable on there.    Ideally the TA sends a correct invoice but that may not always be the case, and the OP TA may not have sent a correct invoice.

[notmyrealnameoremail]

36 minutes ago, rimmit said:

Most TAs I have worked with have separate invoices from RCI.  When booking with a big box TA, or just a smaller TA I don’t think I have ever seen the RCI invoice.

 

In this case the TA is responsible for sending a correct invoice.  Our TA (who has messed up in the past regarding this same issue) now has in BRIGHT BOLD RED letters when it is Nonrefundable.   Prior to our incident she had never had refundable vs non refundable on there.    Ideally the TA sends a correct invoice but that may not always be the case, and the OP TA may not have sent a correct invoice.

 

Sorry in advance for the slight hijack.  Your TA can send you a copy of of Royal's invoice.  If you ask, they should do that for you. 

 

I like to get the Royal invoices because it gives me a common reference for comparing to other cruises and makes it easy when checking for price drops.  (My wife thinks I'm obsessive when I check every few days, but for some reason she doen't com[lain when the price goes down.)

 

For reasons not relevant here, I switched TAs a couple of times and have always asked for and gotten the Royal invoice.  I now have a great TA who recognized that I wanted the Royal invoice after asking one for two different cruises and he now sends them as a matter of course.

 

Hijack over.

 

Tom

[rimmit]

26 minutes ago, notmyrealnameoremail said:

 

Sorry in advance for the slight hijack.  Your TA can send you a copy of of Royal's invoice.  If you ask, they should do that for you. 

 

I like to get the Royal invoices because it gives me a common reference for comparing to other cruises and makes it easy when checking for price drops.  (My wife thinks I'm obsessive when I check every few days, but for some reason she doen't com[lain when the price goes down.)

 

For reasons not relevant here, I switched TAs a couple of times and have always asked for and gotten the Royal invoice.  I now have a great TA who recognized that I wanted the Royal invoice after asking one for two different cruises and he now sends them as a matter of course.

 

Hijack over.

 

Tom

Great idea. Maybe I will just tell our current TA to always send me the RCI invoice omg with theirs.  Although we have been doing some more bouncing with TAs lately so I just need to remember to request from what Ta we are currently using.  
 

These days we have what I call our go to Baseline TA perks and we have been letting other TAs compete and on an occasion we find something with a group rate.  For some reason, and it could be that we are doing more X than RCI lately, we have been doing better than our typically 10 percent back in OBC.  Not sure if it’s RCI vs X and their commission rates or for some reason X has more groups but before when booking RCI we rarely beat 10 percent back in OBC,  but lately either the cruise price is notably lower due to group rate or we get notably more perks than before.

[jagsfan]

On 12/12/2019 at 2:47 PM, molly361 said:

I have had that happen twice with Royal. I always get and look at the booking confirmation immediately and caught it right away both times and had it fixed.  I believe their system defaults to non refundable 

That’s exactly what happens. 

Many time a change is made the cruiser should read over the confirmation with a magnifying glass. 

[jagsfan]

2 hours ago, notmyrealnameoremail said:

 

Sorry in advance for the slight hijack.  Your TA can send you a copy of of Royal's invoice.  If you ask, they should do that for you. 

 

I like to get the Royal invoices because it gives me a common reference for comparing to other cruises and makes it easy when checking for price drops.  (My wife thinks I'm obsessive when I check every few days, but for some reason she doen't com[lain when the price goes down.)

 

For reasons not relevant here, I switched TAs a couple of times and have always asked for and gotten the Royal invoice.  I now have a great TA who recognized that I wanted the Royal invoice after asking one for two different cruises and he now sends them as a matter of course.

 

Hijack over.

 

Tom

Since sometimes the TA asks for final payment a week or 10 days early. This can save last minute problems, and it doesn’t affect the ability to lower rates or cancel until the cruise lines’s final payment date. 

If that’s the case, a TA might prefer not to send the Royal invoice. 

If the cruiser tells them they realize the final payment dates are different, and is ok with it, the TA will usually send the cruise line’s guest confirmation. 

I much prefer any of the cruise lines’ confirmations as to me they contain more information. 

[Clarea]

19 minutes ago, jagsfan said:

 ...

I much prefer any of the cruise lines’ confirmations as to me they contain more information. 

 

True, and Guest Services is much more likely to take action based on Royal's invoice, for example if you are missing OBC onboard that is listed on Royal's invoice.

[cruisinfanatic]

16 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Nope, surprisingly not always... But that's Royal

You'll have to show me a single example

[ONECRUISER]

4 hours ago, cruisinfanatic said:

You'll have to show me a single example

I've seen at least dozen last 6 months. Will point it out to you next one come across  It's like when I booked a last min Cruise going by myself, was cheaper book 2 passengers then even use my Diamond Plus and SOLO discount. Or when Booked a 2Bd/2Ba Suite cheaper then a Balcony, was a mistake but Weird things happen on Royal site... Edit, Oops, meant last yr. Actually booked one last yr

Edited December 15, 2019 by ONECRUISER