Cancelling Cruises because of the C word

[arlowood]

11 hours ago, galeforce9 said:

You’re luckier with BA than I have been.  They cancelled my Italy flight 14 days ago and I have yet to receive the refund. 

I read somewhere that if you book flights + hotel (or car hire etc) you are regarded as having a package and this is offered by a subsidiary BA Holidays. I recall during my attempt to get through last week that there were different options to speak to someone based on whether it was flight only or flight + hotel etc. 

 

The regulations for flights may differ from packages

Edited March 26, 2020 by arlowood

[galeforce9]

1 minute ago, arlowood said:

I read somewhere that if you book flights + hotel (or car hire etc) you are regarded as having a package and this is offered by a subsidiary BA Holidays. I recall during my attempt to get through last week that there were different options to speak to somewhere based on whether it was flight only or flight + hotel etc. 

 

The regulations for flights may differ from packages

Mine was just an independent holiday flights only.  The BA call centre is just cutting me off this morning.  Instead I wrote to The Times. Made me feel better anyway 😁.   My P&O refund is still due too.  I expect that will take many more weeks (got in before the change).  

[Clodia]

Knowing that my 12th April cruise won't be going ahead, yesterday I tried to cancel my train ticket and hotel. The hotel allowed me to move to late Autumn at the same rate, and said if that doesn't go ahead I can move the room to next year, again at the same rate. The train company will not refund as the ticket is non refundable. I argued that the contract is frustrated. My credit card company agrees with me and is reversing the transaction. Now I'll let VISA and the train company fight it out!

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Tablelamp said:

 

My cruise starts on 17th May on Aurora.  Like you I am going to insist on a full refund.  Trouble is, P & O have more power to their elbow and the chances of getting through to them on the telephone is ?.  
 

I paid £15 for a letter from my GP stating that I had an underlying health condition, only to find that P & O had moved the goalposts.     £15 Wasted.

We are also affected by P&O’s ‘moving goalpost’ policy, although I fear that those who have willingly accepted Future Cruise Credit stand to lose an awful lot more than £15 if this goes on for a prolonged period and cruise companies start to fail, hence my desire to get my money back ASAP. 

[Selbourne]

7 minutes ago, Clodia said:

Knowing that my 12th April cruise won't be going ahead, yesterday I tried to cancel my train ticket and hotel. The hotel allowed me to move to late Autumn at the same rate, and said if that doesn't go ahead I can move the room to next year, again at the same rate. The train company will not refund as the ticket is non refundable. I argued that the contract is frustrated. My credit card company agrees with me and is reversing the transaction. Now I'll let VISA and the train company fight it out!

I believe that the only non-refundable train tickets are ‘Advance’ tickets, but as from this week all train operating companies have agreed to refund them. I had some of them myself and have sent them off for a refund under these new conditions. 

[AndyMichelle]

I saw on another forum somebody complaining that their refund was taking too long as she says she was quoted 4 to 5 days... 😂😂

Andy 

[dgs1956]

1 hour ago, Tablelamp said:

 

My cruise starts on 17th May on Aurora.  Like you I am going to insist on a full refund.  Trouble is, P & O have more power to their elbow and the chances of getting through to them on the telephone is ?.  
 

I paid £15 for a letter from my GP stating that I had an underlying health condition, only to find that P & O had moved the goalposts.     £15 Wasted.

Have you tried to claim a cash refund from P&O and presented your letter? My understanding was that they are refunding them as I have been asked to give them a letter.

[alpha whiskey]

10 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

I’ve just seen an email in my junk folder for an invoice for my cancellation! This is for 10th April cruise. Must mean the money will soon be in my account.

Did you book via a TA or direct with P&O? We were due to sail this Saturday 28 March, but other than the auto 45 day reply, there has been no other comms from them. Checked my junk folder too, but no cancellation invoice for me. 😭

[Adawn47]

Our cruise isn't until November 6th, but  I've been reading everything on here very carefully. Always the optimist I'm still hoping but I've a feeling I shall be disappointed. With P&O changing the T&C's on a regular basis I wonder what their reaction would be if I simply refused to pay my final balance😊? I'll lose £135 deposit obviously, but so what. A small price to to pay. At least they wouldn't have all the money and then the boot would be on the other foot. If they can change things to suit themselves why can't we?  It would make a change for them to fight for their money instead. It's probably not feasible and I know some of you who are more knowledgeable  will find all the cons of this, but the thought put a smile on my face this morning 😉 I hope everyone's keeping well.

Avril 

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

44 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I saw on another forum somebody complaining that their refund was taking too long as she says she was quoted 4 to 5 days... 😂😂

Andy 

Did you say 4 to 5 ways? 🤣🤣

[Son of Anarchy]

I found Booking.com very helpful recently.  Our booking had a cancellation fee of €180.  Booking.com contacted the property and got them to waive the fee.  Full refund landed in about 5 days.  Great service.

 

P4C refunded me within 4 days.  Again great service.

 

Pando were great when they cancelled our Oceana Dubai fly cruise - they refunded a hotel booking; and they were great when we were on Ventura in Tenerife for five days last year, cancelling our following b2b, (full refund of the following cruise, but stayed on the ship and 50% refund of the Tenerife cruise, OBC was a bit mean though).

 

Just waiting for PandO to cancel the next two.  We don't expect them to be as good on this occasion.

[P&O SUE]

47 minutes ago, alpha whiskey said:

Did you book via a TA or direct with P&O? We were due to sail this Saturday 28 March, but other than the auto 45 day reply, there has been no other comms from them. Checked my junk folder too, but no cancellation invoice for me. 😭

I booked direct with P&O. Still not in my bank account yet!

[Selbourne]

27 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Our cruise isn't until November 6th, but  I've been reading everything on here very carefully. Always the optimist I'm still hoping but I've a feeling I shall be disappointed. With P&O changing the T&C's on a regular basis I wonder what their reaction would be if I simply refused to pay my final balance😊? I'll lose £135 deposit obviously, but so what. A small price to to pay. At least they wouldn't have all the money and then the boot would be on the other foot. If they can change things to suit themselves why can't we?  It would make a change for them to fight for their money instead. It's probably not feasible and I know some of you who are more knowledgeable  will find all the cons of this, but the thought put a smile on my face this morning 😉 I hope everyone's keeping well.

Avril 

You are under no obligation to pay your balance and P&O cannot pursue you for it. If you simply don’t pay the balance then your booking will be cancelled and your deposit of £135 becomes the total extent of your loss. Loads of people do this, especially when they have paid a small deposit. We have a 21 night cruise in July / August but have no intention of paying the balance when it falls due at the end of April. There’s no way that I am giving P&O another £7k of my money for them to then play silly buggers and refuse to refund me. As our deposit was £350 I will take that as FCC if I have to, although my chances of booking a new cruise with P&O any time soon are slim to nil. 

[Windsurfboy]

I wouldn't pay a balance now.

 

For those that have like me  YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A REFUND. 

 

With both the UK parliament and the European Parliament closed , neither UK law or European law can be changed. ABTA doesn't have the power.

 

Keep lobbying your MP and also Grant Shapps the transport Secretary. 

[terrierjohn]

22 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

You are under no obligation to pay your balance and P&O cannot pursue you for it. If you simply don’t pay the balance then your booking will be cancelled and your deposit of £135 becomes the total extent of your loss. Loads of people do this, especially when they have paid a small deposit. We have a 21 night cruise in July / August but have no intention of paying the balance when it falls due at the end of April. There’s no way that I am giving P&O another £7k of my money for them to then play silly buggers and refuse to refund me. As our deposit was £350 I will take that as FCC if I have to, although my chances of booking a new cruise with P&O any time soon are slim to nil. 

Are they actually offering that option  Selbourne?

[staygulf]

22 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

You are under no obligation to pay your balance and P&O cannot pursue you for it. If you simply don’t pay the balance then your booking will be cancelled and your deposit of £135 becomes the total extent of your loss. Loads of people do this, especially when they have paid a small deposit. We have a 21 night cruise in July / August but have no intention of paying the balance when it falls due at the end of April. There’s no way that I am giving P&O another £7k of my money for them to then play silly buggers and refuse to refund me. As our deposit was £350 I will take that as FCC if I have to, although my chances of booking a new cruise with P&O any time soon are slim to nil. 

Your post got me thinking. If you fail to pay your balance and the cruise is subsequently cancelled then you would surely be entitled to a refund of your deposit. I reach this conclusion because the terms say that P and O is entitled to cancel the booking and keep your deposit. It doesn’t say cancel the contract as it does in other clauses. So the contract is still live and is then frustrated, as alluded to by an earlier post, and all terms are nullified and monies paid have to be returned. Discuss!

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, staygulf said:

Your post got me thinking. If you fail to pay your balance and the cruise is subsequently cancelled then you would surely be entitled to a refund of your deposit. I reach this conclusion because the terms say that P and O is entitled to cancel the booking and keep your deposit. It doesn’t say cancel the contract as it does in other clauses. So the contract is still live and is then frustrated, as alluded to by an earlier post, and all terms are nullified and monies paid have to be returned. Discuss!

I might chunter but your supposition is far too complex for my addled brain to grasp, so I guess I will continue to be trampled underfoot by P&O.

[Selbourne]

48 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Are they actually offering that option  Selbourne?

Not yet John, as the cruise is technically still going ahead. We had assumed that we would just write the £350 off because, as Staygulf says, normal T’s and C’s mean that if you don’t pay the balance then you forfeit the deposit. I was making the assumption that P&O will be forced to cancel the cruise and then the deposit would become FCC, but thinking about it, P&O are unlikely to cancel beyond 4 week blocks (to ease cash flow) so, on that basis, my theory is flawed as the balance is due 12 weeks out. Apologies for confusing anyone. That’s another £350 to add to my ‘Coronavirus losses’ list!

[staygulf]

17 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Not yet John, as the cruise is technically still going ahead. We had assumed that we would just write the £350 off because, as Staygulf says, normal T’s and C’s mean that if you don’t pay the balance then you forfeit the deposit. I was making the assumption that P&O will be forced to cancel the cruise and then the deposit would become FCC, but thinking about it, P&O are unlikely to cancel beyond 4 week blocks (to ease cash flow) so, on that basis, my theory is flawed as the balance is due 12 weeks out. Apologies for confusing anyone. That’s another £350 to add to my ‘Coronavirus losses’ list!

But you don’t seem to have taken my point on board. If they do cancel the cruise your contract becomes “frustrated” and null and void so they would have to return your deposit. Am I wrong?

[Selbourne]

35 minutes ago, staygulf said:

But you don’t seem to have taken my point on board. If they do cancel the cruise your contract becomes “frustrated” and null and void so they would have to return your deposit. Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong I’m afraid. Balance is due 12 weeks prior to departure. At that point, the cruise will still be scheduled to go ahead. If a customer fails to pay the balance (as I will) then the deposit is forfeited. 8 weeks later when P&O cancels the cruise, you have already lost your deposit, so nothing to convert to FCC. Those who have paid the balance will have the full amount converted to FCC. 

[staygulf]

7 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Yes you are wrong I’m afraid. Balance is due 12 weeks prior to departure. At that point, the cruise will still be scheduled to go ahead. If a customer fails to pay the balance (as I will) then the deposit is forfeited. 8 weeks later when P&O cancels the cruise, you have already lost your deposit, so nothing to convert to FCC. Those who have paid the balance will have the full amount converted to FCC. 

You are missing the point. At the point you fail to pay your balance P and O have the right to cancel the “booking” and keep the deposit. They do not have the right to cancel the “contract “. If they did it would be couched in those terms the same way as in the cancellation clauses. So the contract is still live even though they gave cancelled your booking. When they later cancel the contract it becomes frustrated so you are entitled to a refund as all terms are nullified. 

[DamianG]

I got a reply from my TA (my query related to paying the final balance in April for our cruise in July and whether they could guarantee a cash refund in any way if the cruise is subsequently cancelled):

 

Currently P&O aren’t offering cash refunds to customers where their cruise has not yet been cancelled. We cannot say whether a cash refund would be offered if P&O choose to cancel the cruise closer to the time as it would be down to them and the rules of ABTA as to whether they can or not. The options on this one are to either pay the balance and wait to see if the cruise goes ahead or not and if not then P&O will email you your options on this. The other option is to cancel this cruise down but the only thing we can offer is the deposit in the form of a future cruise credit to use against another cruise. This has to be used by the 31^st December 2021 and sail by March 2022. If this is something you would like to do then please give us a call or send a web enquiry in or email and we will get back in touch with you as soon as possible.

Edited March 26, 2020 by DamianG

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, staygulf said:

You are missing the point. At the point you fail to pay your balance P and O have the right to cancel the “booking” and keep the deposit. They do not have the right to cancel the “contract “. If they did it would be couched in those terms the same way as in the cancellation clauses. So the contract is still live even though they gave cancelled your booking. When they later cancel the contract it becomes frustrated so you are entitled to a refund as all terms are nullified. 

I was merely stating the booking conditions. I am no lawyer, so only have a layman’s knowledge of the law, whereas you clearly have a better understanding of it, so I bow to your superior knowledge. 

[DamianG]

I'm not sure if this has been answered previously but here's a possible scenario for which I would appreciate some opinions please:

1) Pay my final balance in April.

2) Cruise is subsequently cancelled.

3) P&O offer me a future cruise credit only even though at the time of the cancellation this is only an ABTA recommendation (not legally enforceable).

4) I then pursue a refund via my credit card company for the breach of contract on their part and an unacceptable offer in lieu of a cash refund.

Does that sound feasible?

I appreciate that some will be in a position to help support P&O through these tough times by taking a FCC but unfortunately I'm not in that position. We've booked a cruise for this year and we intend to honour that contract but if it doesn't sail we can't have that money tied up for 2 years before we can ask for it back.

We would accept an offer to put the payment towards next year's booking but are not in a position to take 2 cruises in 2021.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by DamianG

[staygulf]

3 minutes ago, DamianG said:

I'm not sure if this has been answered previously but here's a possible scenario for which I would appreciate some opinions please:

1) Pay my final balance in April.

2) Cruise is subsequently cancelled.

3) P&O offer me a future cruise credit only even though at the time of the cancellation this is only an ABTA recommendation (not legally enforceable).

4) I then pursue a refund via my credit card company for the breach of contract on their part and an unacceptable offer in lieu of a cash refund.

Does that sound feasible?

I appreciate that some will be in a position to help support P&O through these tough times by taking a FCC but unfortunately I'm not in that position. We've booked a cruise for this year and we intend to honour that contract but if it doesn't sail we can't have that money tied up for 2 years before we can ask for it back.

We would accept an offer to put the payment towards next year's booking but are not in a position to take 2 cruises in 2021.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

 

As it would be P and O’s legal obligation to refund you the CC company may well say that you have to pursue them as it is a legal matter. The CC have not breached their contract. They may assist you by taking the money back from P and O and returning it to you. You could try that. But your first recourse is P and O.  ABTA.  act in the cruise lines’ interest not yours. I wouldn’t pay any attention to their erroneous advice.