Why is Celebrity playing "chicken" with its customers

[isdoo]

15 hours ago, DrKoob said:

 

RCL Corp and Carnival are nowhere near bankruptcy (Can't say the same for Norwegian). They all have huge budgets for upgrades and new builds just waiting to happen. They will just put those plans on hold. The Amplification of Royal ships and the upgrade of the rest of the X fleet will be put on hold until the crisis is over and people can sail again. The same with Beyond. Work has started, but they can delay payments or stop work at this point. 

The FCC incentive is just to keep you as a customer. As a travel professional, all my first time cruisers (who don't have a clue) have cancelled. All my long-time cruisers are asking if there are any great bargains out there. 

 

We have a cruise on Flora that we have not made final payment on yet. We are supposed to sail on August 2. I will make that payment in April and hope that we can go. If we can't I will wait until the final day to see what they offer me. We still want to go and have budgeted for it. Who knows, I could wind up sailing in a suite with my 225% FCC. If X holds my money for three months, I really don't care. Our travel fund makes less than 2% interest (to keep it liquid) so if I make back 225%, then that's super. BTW: My air is booked with X so that is covered either way. 

 

Be smart and just wait. The biggest reason they are asking you to wait is that they are beyond swamped. The cruises I have had to cancel have taken me 2-3 hours of hold time. Just hang on. If nothing changes, you get more to make sure you cruise. Don't be like those people who demanded refunds on cruises going next week about a month ago. They got their refunds but if they had waited, they would have gotten a whole lot more.

 

Jim

 

PS: 

If you want to get the shareholder's credit on future cruises, this is a great time to buy RCL stock. It's down below $30. 

 

NCL fans and investors are saying the opposite. NCL have cash reserves but RCL does not.
 

[Iamcruzin]

7 hours ago, Miaminice said:

With all due respect... when it comes to getting discounts or finding another possible perk or OBC, people are always very "smart" and self-confident. In other cases, they are always expecting and demanding the cruise lines to make a decision... one they themselves don´t want to make.

You have a choice!!! To use your language: You can be a chicken or not. Cancel or wait it out! It is as simple as that.

Celebrity gave you the choice to wait until 48 h before and still cancel. They even gave you an advantage in the stare down contest. What more do you want? 😉

Well stated and the honest truth.  

[Eglesbrech]

The added complication with FCC is that people may not actually be able to use them.

 

1. when will governments remove the advisory for over 70s (and younger people with listed conditions) from travelling on cruises. It won’t be soon I think.
 

2. how much more will travel insurance for cruise ship holidays be for those in 1 above. People could end up with insurance costs higher than the cost of the actual cruise.

 

An FCC is fine for the young and healthy but may end up being so much waste paper for others.

[grandgeezer]

9 hours ago, Miaminice said:

With all due respect... when it comes to getting discounts or finding another possible perk or OBC, people are always very "smart" and self-confident. In other cases, they are always expecting and demanding the cruise lines to make a decision... one they themselves don´t want to make.

You have a choice!!! To use your language: You can be a chicken or not. Cancel or wait it out! It is as simple as that.

Celebrity gave you the choice to wait until 48 h before and still cancel. They even gave you an advantage in the stare down contest. What more do you want? 😉

 

In reality, that's not much of an advantage, it's called self preservation. Without that how many hundreds of thousands of customers would have lost 25%, to all of their funds on a product they didn't receive or could affect their health and well being?

I don't know how  many either affected or on the sidelines would ever put their faith in them again? 

Then they might as well take all their ships to Long Beach CA. and turn them into floating hotels like I believe, the Queen Mary.

For the record, it should be a full refund, maybe minus a small handling fee, not the FCC crap.

[WonderMan3]

5 hours ago, isdoo said:

NCL fans and investors are saying the opposite. NCL have cash reserves but RCL does not.
 

 

I believe NCL just recently leveraged Epic in order to get a cash influx.

[PTC DAWG]

28 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

 

I believe NCL just recently leveraged Epic in order to get a cash influx.

That is my understanding...

[teecee60]

16 hours ago, frteach said:

Princess is offering 225% FCC? On all Carnival cruise lines or just Princess? Wow! I just paid for an Alaska cruise supposedly leaving on June 14, but Canada has closed all ports through June so that's not going. I am hoping for 125% FCC once they get around to cancelling these Alaska cruises. Sounds TGTBTrue and I just reread the posts before posting this and it is indeed. Don't add to the confusion. Is 200% on Princess true or just a figure someone pulled from their imagination?

 

I was booked and fully paid for a 29 night cruise on Princess departing April 8th. Just three days ago I was offered a 100% refund of the full fare, taxes and port charges plus 50% of the fare in FCC... OR.... refund of taxes and port charges, PLUS 175% of the fare in FCC.

 

I thought the first option was VERY nice!   I thought the second option was absolutely unbelievable... and instantly jumped on it. The way I look at it, in the long run, I now have THREE 15 night Princess cruises already bought and paid for... and with their military and shareholder benefits, I also have $1,500 of OBC locked in as well.

 

That's why I USED to cruise 60-90 nights per year on Celebrity and/or Royal... and now those nights are spent on Princess.

 

I think the cruise lines are looking/hoping for this crisis to last 30 to 60 days... 90 days at the most. My bet is that it will be MUCH longer, 6 months at least, and much, MUCH more devastating to the entire WORLD'S economy... for at least 2-3 YEARS.

 

Buckle up and hold on for a rough ride folks, we are NOWHERE NEAR a plateau yet, let alone the backside of this. 

[downsmead]

On the thread below, there are posts that say the goal posts have now been moved and that the FCC can only be applied to new bookings, not existing bookings, see posts 192 onwards! The T&C say - 

The FCC certificate’s value may be applied toward the cruise fare due on a new booking, and new future sail date, on the brand originally purchased.

 

[WonderMan3]

4 hours ago, downsmead said:

On the thread below, there are posts that say the goal posts have now been moved and that the FCC can only be applied to new bookings, not existing bookings, see posts 192 onwards! The T&C say - 

The FCC certificate’s value may be applied toward the cruise fare due on a new booking, and new future sail date, on the brand originally purchased.

 

 

If the price you paid for your reservation is the same or lower then just cancel and rebook and apply the FCC. I know that's probably unlikely as they appear to have been raising fares into next year, but maybe wait and see what happens to the fares. I really think that whenever cruising gets started again that they are going to be struggling to fill spaces into next year after all the negative press and fares will start to come down again especially on space in the latter half of this year.

[cruisingnewtoit]

X is uping the chicken game with Alaska cruises by saying they are looking into  itinerary options. I want a refund but I don't want them to decide my Alaskan cruise is now for an example a Caribbean cruise. Under our contract they can do that.

 

Right now X wants cash I don't think they are concerned about keeping customer loyalty.

[idh2019]

 

Removed - wrong thread

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by idh2019

[downsmead]

I had a reply to my post on the social site 

[HS2BS]

Here is Celebrity publishing there exciting deals for April, May and June - this is the way they communicate while the rest of the travel industry has already eliminated most travel and told us about it. Where is there common sense?

 

Hal
 

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Exciting_Deals/XcitingDeals_cel_tues.pdf

[PTC DAWG]

22 hours ago, teecee60 said:

 

I was booked and fully paid for a 29 night cruise on Princess departing April 8th. Just three days ago I was offered a 100% refund of the full fare, taxes and port charges plus 50% of the fare in FCC... OR.... refund of taxes and port charges, PLUS 175% of the fare in FCC.

 

I thought the first option was VERY nice!   I thought the second option was absolutely unbelievable... and instantly jumped on it. The way I look at it, in the long run, I now have THREE 15 night Princess cruises already bought and paid for... and with their military and shareholder benefits, I also have $1,500 of OBC locked in as well.

 

That's why I USED to cruise 60-90 nights per year on Celebrity and/or Royal... and now those nights are spent on Princess.

 

I think the cruise lines are looking/hoping for this crisis to last 30 to 60 days... 90 days at the most. My bet is that it will be MUCH longer, 6 months at least, and much, MUCH more devastating to the entire WORLD'S economy... for at least 2-3 YEARS.

 

Buckle up and hold on for a rough ride folks, we are NOWHERE NEAR a plateau yet, let alone the backside of this. 

I think it will be over much sooner than later.  The more folks that get the virus and recover fine, the better off we all will be.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

This is the "new normal" folks.  Get used to it.  Governments and medical professionals believe that this new coronavirus and social distancing and travel "restrictions" will be around for at least 18 months.  And, things will change after that to preclude this occurring again.  NEW NORMAL!

[mac66]

X canceled our cruise last Sunday. We have another cruise in August. We could have applied the 125% FCC credit to the Aug cruise. Seems like a good deal but once you spend it on a future cruise  it's spent and you don't get it back. It's a one time thing. If the Aug cruise gets canceled we would be out the FCC. So, we took the refund instead.

[Buckeye94]

On 3/17/2020 at 5:53 PM, Palms2Pines2Sea said:

If you need to cancel for your own peace of mind, just do it. Really, just make it happen. You will sleep better, I promise

Thank you. I did. I cancelled my May 1 cruise. Would I have come out ahead if I'd waited for them to cancel, which is looking more likely?  <sigh> Yes, probably. 

 

I'm dealing with too much to have that trip hanging over me and friends and family asking about the trip - if it's on, will I go, why, am I worried? Yes, maybe, I don't know! 

 

I like cruising. I will cruise again. So, I took the 100% FCC and I'll sail again.

 

Do what's right for you. I will sleep with one less worry running through my head.

 

Be safe. Be sane. Be kind.

 

Julie

[UKPete71]

3 hours ago, mac66 said:

X canceled our cruise last Sunday. We have another cruise in August. We could have applied the 125% FCC credit to the Aug cruise. Seems like a good deal but once you spend it on a future cruise  it's spent and you don't get it back. It's a one time thing. If the Aug cruise gets canceled we would be out the FCC. So, we took the refund instead.

If the August cruise got cancelled your FCC would be reissued. That’s assuming the CWC was extended.

Edited March 20, 2020 by UKPete71

[Doubt It]

On 3/18/2020 at 1:14 PM, grandgeezer said:

 

In reality, that's not much of an advantage, it's called self preservation. Without that how many hundreds of thousands of customers would have lost 25%, to all of their funds on a product they didn't receive or could affect their health and well being?

I don't know how  many either affected or on the sidelines would ever put their faith in them again? 

Then they might as well take all their ships to Long Beach CA. and turn them into floating hotels like I believe, the Queen Mary.

For the record, it should be a full refund, maybe minus a small handling fee, not the FCC crap.

 

grandgeezer - exactly said.

 

Full refund and handling fee - nothing more or less. Did not receive the product contracted = refund.

 

The FCC is a scam.  

[critterchick]

4 hours ago, mac66 said:

X canceled our cruise last Sunday. We have another cruise in August. We could have applied the 125% FCC credit to the Aug cruise. Seems like a good deal but once you spend it on a future cruise  it's spent and you don't get it back. It's a one time thing. If the Aug cruise gets canceled we would be out the FCC. So, we took the refund instead.

 

What was the itinerary?

[actdir]

On 3/17/2020 at 10:46 PM, NantahalaCruiser said:

REEtired would be able to get a cash refund for his deposit if he cancelled prior to final payment date only if it was a refundable deposit. If it was a non-refundable deposit then he would instead only get a FCC in the amount of the deposit.

I don't know if they have changed this, but yesterday I was told that if you had a non-refundable deposit and cancelled before final payment, you would get your deposit back as a FCC less a $100.00 fee.  We opted for the refund and in looking at a future cruise I also found out that the cruise fare for the refundable and non-refundable options differ.  The refundable being more expensive.  At one point online they had a $410.00 fee for the refundable fare.  It was very confusing to say the least.

NantahalaCruiser, we are in Hayesville.

[henry1005]

3 hours ago, Doubt It said:

 

grandgeezer - exactly said.

 

Full refund and handling fee - nothing more or less. Did not receive the product contracted = refund.

 

The FCC is a scam.  

I think it's best for everyone to make their own decision.  For some the extra 25% FCC if Celebrity cancels will help pay for already purchased or newly purchased cruises and can be a sizable amount (i.e. 25% of $4k is $1k)...for some the 100% refund (if this is an option for you) is the way to go...neither option is absolutely correct for everyone.  

 

Also, as has been shared by Celebrity and other cruisers, anyone that takes FCC and uses it would get it refunded if the subsequently purchased cruise is canceled.

 

Finally, people can take the FCC at 125% for cancelled cruises and subsequently request a refund as long as they do so before 12/31/21 per the Celebrity website FAQs.

 

It's important to have all information when making individual decisions. There is no right or wrong answer at this point.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by henry1005
Corrected the final date for refunds.

[Sam.Seattle]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:51 PM, Guindalf said:

Can you quote sources for all the so-called facts you are stating? I suspect not.

 

 

Here you go!  

 

 

ATA STANDARDIZED BY S&P CAPITAL IQ. Why is this beneficial?   Annual Quarterly   Assets All numbers in millions of US Dollars   2019 (12/31/19) 2018 (12/31/18) 2017 (12/31/17) 2016 (12/31/16) 2015 (12/31/15) Current Assets Cash and Short-Term Investments – Total 244 288 120 133 122 Receivables – Total 306 325 319 292 239 Inventories – Total 162 154 111 114 121 Current Assets – Other – Total 451 476 293 210 355 Current Assets Total 1,163 1,242 843 748 837 Non-Current Assets Property Plant and Equipment – Total (Net) 26,154 23,466 19,735 20,161 18,778 Intangible Assets – Total 1,888 1,880 296 288 287 Non-Current Assets – Other – Total 255 235 652 454 575 Non–Current Assets Total 29,158 26,456 21,453 21,562 20,085 ASSETS TOTAL 30,320 27,698 22,296 22,310 20,922   Liabilities and Shareholders' Equity All numbers in millions of US Dollars     2019 (12/31/19) 2018 (12/31/18) 2017 (12/31/17) 2016 (12/31/16) 2015 (12/31/15) Liabilites Current Liabilities Debt in Current Liabilities 2,718 2,422 1,189 1,286 900 Account Payable/Creditors – Trade 564 488 360 305 302 Income Taxes Payable 0 0 0 0 0 Current Liabilities – Other 4,671 4,202 3,242 2,851 3,091 Current Liabilities Total 7,953 7,112 4,790 4,442 4,293 Long–Term Liabilities Long-Term Debt Total 9,016 8,355 6,351 8,102 7,767 Deferred Taxes and Investment Tax Credit 0 0 0 0 0 Liabilities (Other) 618 583 453 646 799 Long-Term Liabilities Total 9,634 8,939 6,804 8,747 8,566 Liabilities Total 17,586 16,051 11,594 13,189 12,859 Minority Interest – Balance Sheet 570 542 0 0 0 Shareholders' Equity Preferred/Preference Stock (Capital) – Total 0 0 0 0 0 Common/Ordinary Equity – Total -- -- -- -- -- Shareholders' Equity Total 12,164 11,105 10,702 9,121 8,063 LIABILITIES AND SHAREHOLDERS' EQUITY TOTAL 30,320 27,698 22,296 22,310 20,922     2019 (12/31/19) 2018 (12/31/18) 2017 (12/31/17) 2016 (12/31/16) 2015 (12/31/15) Common Shares Outstanding 208,801,000 209,017,000 213,338,000 214,594,000 217,993,000

Edited March 20, 2020 by Sam.Seattle

[lifeisrealygood]

I cancelled my March 15th cruise on the Silhouette using the "Cruise With Confidence" thing.  I received via e-mail my FCC in the amount of what I paid less the taxes and port fees, which I am waiting to be credited to my credit card.

 

I then called Celebrity, and tried to apply my FCC to a similar Caribbean cruise next March (2021), this time on the Equinox.  Same itinerary, different ship. I had already booked this cruise previously.

 

I was told that I could not use the FCC on an already booked but not yet paid for cruise.  I told the agent that I would just cancel the cruise, and rebook using the FCC.  

 

CAN'T DO IT!!!!!!  Read the small print near the bottom of the "Cruise with Confidence" document.  It specifically states you can not use the FCC for a cruise originally booked,  then cancelled.  So, if you cancel a cruise, you cannot use the FCC to book the same cruise.

 

You must book a new cruise.  Totally new and different.  The cancel and rebook thing will not work.

 

So I was told.  Yikes!!!!!   

[Pushka]

10 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I think it will be over much sooner than later.  The more folks that get the virus and recover fine, the better off we all will be.  

The whole concept is to slow it down not speed it up. Under your model many more people will die because there is not one hospital system on this planet that will cope with the 20% needing hospital support.