Has the pandemic made you rethink how you cruise?

[ilikeanswers]

3 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

That's not the conversation we're having, but in process, sure. In quantity it's continued it's upward trend. So no significant change.

 

But those processes have forced people to change certain practices. The processes that will be applied post pandemic will force cruise lines to change certain practices. Either way cruising will not be the same. It will be adapt or die. 

[jeremyosborne81]

1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But those processes have forced people to change certain practices. The processes that will be applied post pandemic will force cruise lines to change certain practices. Either way cruising will not be the same. It will be adapt or die. 

Set a reminder to come back to this, but in about 18 months there will be no SIGNIFICANT changes in the cruise industry. Some slight procedural changes but nothing ground breaking.

Just like I continue to fly with slightly more hassle at security, we will continue to cruise with servers at the buffet.

[clo]

8 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

Set a reminder to come back to this, but in about 18 months there will be no SIGNIFICANT changes in the cruise industry. Some slight procedural changes but nothing ground breaking.

Just like I continue to fly with slightly more hassle at security, we will continue to cruise with servers at the buffet.

I think you haven't mentioned that this is nothing but your opinion based upon really nothing.

[navybankerteacher]

33 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You haven't noticed a single change after 9/11 in travel😳? Do you live in some alternative universe😂? 

I believe we are seeing one of the side effects of cruise addiction: the inability to even contemplate anything which might, even for a while, change cruising as usual — the notion that things being the way I liked them is the only possible way for things to be.

[KnowTheScore]

23 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

Set a reminder to come back to this, but in about 18 months there will be no SIGNIFICANT changes in the cruise industry. Some slight procedural changes but nothing ground breaking.

Just like I continue to fly with slightly more hassle at security, we will continue to cruise with servers at the buffet.

 

This is incredibly naïve TBH.

 

Carnival will soon be fighting some massive lawsuits as a result of how it managed the virus on its ships.

 

It will likely cost them many $millions

 

The notion that everything will just be the same is simply nonsense

 

You have to ask yourself, when cruises start up again, what will they do when one passenger or staff member presents with COVID-19.    How will they deal with it?

 

If you seriously think that the industry is going to be able to survive based on following the same procedures as the Diamond Princess, quarantining all passengers to cabins for 2 weeks, then good luck to you.  It's simply not going to happen.

 

Those protocol ARE going to change, they HAVE to change for the cruising industry to have any future at all.

 

Because of that insurance is going to change too.  No way you are going to be able to find an insurer willing to foot all costs if you end up on a "Diamond Princess" and are quarantined with everyone else.  Catching the virus and having to foot the bills yourself could literally bankrupt many people if they can't get insured for the costs.  You might even lose your house.

 

There will be MASSIVE changes as a result of COVID-19.  It's not going away and there will be other viruses that come along in due course.  COVID-19 has simply been the one that changes everything and will now require all industries to adapt and change.

 

Individuals will all inevitably be bagged and tagged going forward for all sorts of things.  If you're not tagged then you could be refused all sorts of things not just cruising.

 

.

 

 

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

41 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

Set a reminder to come back to this, but in about 18 months there will be no SIGNIFICANT changes in the cruise industry. Some slight procedural changes but nothing ground breaking.

Just like I continue to fly with slightly more hassle at security, we will continue to cruise with servers at the buffet.

 

I hope that you are right and I think that you are right but it's too early to say.

[chipmaster]

47 minutes ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

Set a reminder to come back to this, but in about 18 months there will be no SIGNIFICANT changes in the cruise industry. Some slight procedural changes but nothing ground breaking.

Just like I continue to fly with slightly more hassle at security, we will continue to cruise with servers at the buffet.

 

Curious can you tell me what the hassle is ?   

 

Observe anything different among the passengers, and people about?  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, jeremyosborne81 said:

 

I was in New Orleans in 2007. Bourbon Street was still packed.

I've been to New York City. They just built more buildings and nothing has changed from Pre-9/11.

People will always continue their lives.

Most of the  rest of the country -from  where the crowds of tourists come to see Bourbon Street -- was not impacted by the hurricane.  

 

If you had a real notion of what New York was pre-9/11 and how it has changed up to  now,  you might rethink. 

[jeremyosborne81]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

 

Curious can you tell me what the hassle is ?   

 

Observe anything different among the passengers, and people about?  

You mean the extended wait to walk through a machine? At 38 years old, I never lived in a world where I didn't have to go through a metal detector at the airport. The only real change I have seen is not having people meet you at the gate or wait with you when you leave. Neither is a significant change.

There is nothing different about the passengers. They are all the same people as before.

[getting older slowly]

7 hours ago, ducklite said:

I can think of at least three ocean lines that have ships under 500 that you haven't mentioned.

  18 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

 

Ok.....  but that means

Oceania, Azamara, Viking, Regent Crytsal and some of Silver Seas are all out

 

I was actually pointing out.. that  the above lines have ships that  are over your 500 passenger limit....    and as said with the above list and all the main stream cruise line .... make up the bulk of passenger doing ocean cruising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ducklite]

28 minutes ago, getting older slowly said:

  18 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

 

Ok.....  but that means

Oceania, Azamara, Viking, Regent Crytsal and some of Silver Seas are all out

 

I was actually pointing out.. that  the above lines have ships that  are over your 500 passenger limit....    and as said with the above list and all the main stream cruise line .... make up the bulk of passenger doing ocean cruising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's fine, I had no plans to sail on any of them.

[Jasawyer]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:49 AM, jeremyosborne81 said:

And you base these silly assumptions on what?

No. Once this is all over, very little will change. Soon enough everything will be like it never happened. That's the way these events always play out.

Precisely... Remember 9/11... Didn't take long for things to roll back into political mayhem and finger pointing

[lenquixote66]

4 minutes ago, Jasawyer said:

Precisely... Remember 9/11... Didn't take long for things to roll back into political mayhem and finger pointing

100 percent correct and also very little security checks on some airlines.

[ilikeanswers]

I think people are forgetting that cruising is not just determined by the line but also the countries they wish to stop at. Before the pandemic cruise lines had a lot more influence and power but post pandemic the power will have shifted to the destinations and after everything they have had to deal with fighting COVID19 the people will want more safety guarantees than business as usual. Even Jamaica a country 60% dependant on tourism refused to give Carnival an exception to new immigration rules for COVID19 prevention and that was before it was officially declared a pandemic. 

[Jasawyer]

20 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

I think people are forgetting that cruising is not just determined by the line but also the countries they wish to stop at. Before the pandemic cruise lines had a lot more influence and power but post pandemic the power will have shifted to the destinations and after everything they have had to deal with fighting COVID19 the people will want more safety guarantees than business as usual. Even Jamaica a country 60% dependant on tourism refused to give Carnival an exception to new immigration rules for COVID19 prevention and that was before it was officially declared a pandemic. 

I have a few expat friends that live in Cozumel. The locals want the ships back ASAP

[clo]

2 minutes ago, Jasawyer said:

The locals want the ships back ASAP

They're not the ones who have to literally "pay the price" if they make a wrong decision.

 

 

[clo]

I don't know where to put this but this seems appropriate. The beat goes on 😞

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/sailors-sidelined-uss-theodore-roosevelt-get-virus-second-time-n1208076?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR0Qv4LRv-_jWsV6qPfnmQNkH1OhsM9-5hZgz7v3c39lFE8jclHgQ8eJV4U

 

I'm not sure the cruise industry will survive.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, Jasawyer said:

I have a few expat friends that live in Cozumel. The locals want the ships back ASAP

 

First off Cozumel does not represent all of Mexico. Second Mexico is one country, so unless the sailing is to Mexico and back with no stops in between it will limit cruise itineraries. Third with uncontrolled infection in Mexico how many countries will lift their do not travel bans on Mexico? Mexico has high rates of diabetes COVID19 will be devastating, it will take them a long time to bounce back from that. Maybe things in the Caribbean might not change too much, but do you really think the Mediterranean hardest hit in Europe by COVID19 will be as willing to have such open borders? And don't forget airlines, we have had an influx of low cost carriers working to the tightest margins with such a long term of no business there will be airlines that will fall and if they go prices go up making it less affordable to fly to a starting port. And with so many travel agents shutting shop it will be a less competitive environment. A lot of those special deals will disappear making cruising less economical than other holidays. This pandemic is affecting the whole tourism infrastructure and cruising is part of that ecosystem. To think it won't be affected is IMO naive. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[Jasawyer]

15 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

First off Cozumel does not represent all of Mexico. Second Mexico is one country, so unless the sailing is to Mexico and back with no stops in between it will limit cruise itineraries. Third with uncontrolled infection in Mexico how many countries will lift their do not travel bans on Mexico? Mexico has high rates of diabetes COVID19 will be devastating, it will take them a long time to bounce back from that. Maybe things in the Caribbean might not change too much, but do you really think the Mediterranean hardest hit in Europe by COVID19 will be as willing to have such open borders? And don't forget airlines, we have had an influx of low cost carriers working to the tightest margins with such a long term of no business there will be airlines that will fall and if they go prices go up making it less affordable to fly to a starting port. And with so many travel agents shutting shop it will be a less competitive environment. A lot of those special deals will disappear making cruising less economical than other holidays. This pandemic is affecting the whole tourism infrastructure and cruising is part of that ecosystem. To think it won't be affected is IMO naive. 

I'll tell you what I think is naive in this particular situation. Naive is believing that you have any control of your freedom of movement and ability to do as you please anymore and that is not by accident. It is also naive IMO to assume that cruise lines will come back if they sit out and are not allowed to sail again past much more than 6-12 months from now. Just here in the States during this pandemic alone, we have lost Neiman Marcus, JC Penney (though they have been struggling because of Bezos), Land's End, J. Crew, the list goes on and on. Here have a look. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/15/these-companies-have-filed-for-bankruptcy-since-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

That scares me more.....  Much Much more....

Edited May 16, 2020 by Jasawyer

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Jasawyer said:

...

 

Just here in the States during this pandemic alone, we have lost Neiman Marcus, JC Penney (though they have been struggling because of Bezos), Land's End, J. Crew, the list goes on and on. Here have a look. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/15/these-companies-have-filed-for-bankruptcy-since-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

That scares me more.....  Much Much more....

What is likely to have been lost is not so much Neiman Marcus, J C Penney, Lands End, etc., but the investment the owners and creditors had in those firms.  Many of those names will survive - more important: the products they offered will continue to be offered.

 

If cruising is capable of surviving - meaning having an enjoyable shipboard experience (which must mean not too many cut backs in what is offered the passengers) provided by a profitable entity (meaning that they must sell as many bunks as it takes to operate profitably in whatever new environment exists) — it will survive.  What is a whole less probable is that it will survive owned and operated by the same owners/operators as pre -COVID.

 

Filing for bankruptcy does not in any way signal the end of a business - it usually just means a change of ownership.  (Which,  if all the talk about irresponsible management has any substance,  was overdue.)

 

One possible benefit to cruise passengers might be a possible reduction in fares - if the present creditors get wiped out in a reorganization, the debt service costs, which has to be funded by fares, might very well be substantially reduced.

Edited May 17, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[clo]

4 hours ago, Jasawyer said:

Naive is believing that you have any control of your freedom of movement and ability to do as you please anymore and that is not by accident.

Oh? Do we have a conspiracy going on?????

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Oh? Do we have a conspiracy going on?????

Of course, and without your seeing it coming.  “THEY” are very good at what they do.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

What is likely to have been lost is not so much Neiman Marcus, J C Penney, Lands End, etc., but the investment the owners and creditors had in those firms.  Many of those names will survive - more important: the products they offered will continue to be offered.

 

 

 

Still, small solace to what must be at least a hundred thousand jobs from companies on that list.  Many more with the multiplier effect.   A vibrant economy cures many ills.   

[evandbob]

Changes in ports:  No more crowded vans and buses?  Lounges and chairs on beaches 6' apart?  Seats left untaken on catarmaran snorkeling expeditions?  Lines for tenders keeping proper spacing?  No more crowded beach bars or souvenier shops?  Changes in how you can leave and re-enter the ship, making the process longer and perhaps causing bad feelings or worse when entitled ones jump the line? 

 

The changes in the ports that decide to re-take cruise ships may be more sweeping than those on the ship - and may make lots of cruisers stay on board in ports or choose to not cruise at all. 

[pacruise804]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:35 PM, Jasawyer said:

I'll tell you what I think is naive in this particular situation. Naive is believing that you have any control of your freedom of movement and ability to do as you please anymore and that is not by accident. It is also naive IMO to assume that cruise lines will come back if they sit out and are not allowed to sail again past much more than 6-12 months from now. Just here in the States during this pandemic alone, we have lost Neiman Marcus, JC Penney (though they have been struggling because of Bezos), Land's End, J. Crew, the list goes on and on. Here have a look. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/15/these-companies-have-filed-for-bankruptcy-since-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

That scares me more.....  Much Much more....

 

I didn't realize JCP hadn't filed already.  Many of their stores closed in PA over a year ago (along with Sears, Macy's, and Bon-Ton)