Should the Cruise Industry be bailed out?

[livingonthebeach]

Understood that cruise lines are incorporated outside the US and their ships registered outside of the US and are not eligible for stimulus money or a bailout.  This article points out that the government has been buying corporate bonds from Carnival helping them raise cash in a sort of "back door" kind of aid.  The article states that the "cruise industry accounts for $8.5 billion in annual revenue to Florida, as well as 154,646 direct, indirect, and induced local jobs"  (Don't know how accurate this is since it was put out by the CLIA)

 

With this in mind, should the cruise industry receive any type of aid, or none at all?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/30/coronavirus-stimulus-plan-should-cruise-industry-bailed-out/3054804001/

[Milwaukee Eight]

No

[karena1]

Cruise industry brings boatloads of money into this country, especially states that have ports like Florida.  I for one want them to succeed and be okay.

[bouhunter]

13 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

With this in mind, should the cruise industry receive any type of aid, or none at all?

 

None.

[CentralNY1]

They should not receive any type of grant or direct assistance.  I do feel, given their robust economic contributions to several states through creation of local jobs etc, that the government should provide a low interest loan program.  Loan 15-20 billion now and recoup it over time with interest.

[rtazz17]

Nope

[firefly333]

36 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Understood that cruise lines are incorporated outside the US and their ships registered outside of the US and are not eligible for stimulus money or a bailout.  This article points out that the government has been buying corporate bonds from Carnival helping them raise cash in a sort of "back door" kind of aid.  The article states that the "cruise industry accounts for $8.5 billion in annual revenue to Florida, as well as 154,646 direct, indirect, and induced local jobs"  (Don't know how accurate this is since it was put out by the CLIA)

 

With this in mind, should the cruise industry receive any type of aid, or none at all?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/30/coronavirus-stimulus-plan-should-cruise-industry-bailed-out/3054804001/

I listened to the fed yesterday I think he spoke at length.

 

He said yes they have been buying groups of bonds. The subject of carnival bonds came up (not rcl) and he said he cannot pick and choose which bonds to buy that are bundled together.

 

The fed cannot ... I repeat cannot choose which publically traded company they want to stimulate, they are buying bundled groups of bonds.

 

So since it either the whole group of bonds or none, the fed cannot be partial.. run for congress if you dont like it or quit complaining.... the fed is NOT picking to bail out cruise stocks, whatever you read from some hack.

[zekekelso]

Somewhere between no and hell no. But this backdoor bailout in the press isn’t really a bailout. 

[Baron Barracuda]

59 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 "cruise industry accounts for $8.5 billion in annual revenue to Florida, as well as 154,646 direct, indirect, and induced local jobs"  (Don't know how accurate this is since it was put out by the CLIA)

 

 

How many of those jobs do you think are permanent, full time jobs w / benefits?  Suspect only a fraction.

[The Fun Researcher]

Short answer is no.

 

Having said that, we love cruising.  It's our primary vacation option, and something we consider a true luxury.

 

The cruise lines have fixed assets that are worth real money.  The ships, terminals, private ports, etc...   I don't see cruising going away, but I can see fixed assets being sold to cover costs.  Will a new cruise line appear from an investor(s) that can buy up some of these assets at rock bottom prices?  Maybe.  That's how I see this going.  Some shifting, some change.

 

Cruise industry going away?  No.

 

Dan

[soremekun]

Yes... from the countries that they are incorporated in.

[firefly333]

Again I actually listened to the fed chairman speak and then there was a question and answer afterwards. Idk if was this reporter or who asked about buying the carnival corp bonds. The fed chairman answered he received them in a bundle of bonds. He CANNOT pick and choose. The fed is buying bonds and injecting stimulus liquidity into the economy right now. (It was also done during obama years).

 

This article is a gross misrepresentation of what happened and what was actually said.

 

Someone on the carnival bds said the bonds were priced at 11.5% but this was not addressed by the fed chairman.

 

This article is for sensationalism... not factual. And doesnt even have anything to do with rcl.

[lenquixote66]

Not from the US

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, soremekun said:

Yes... from the countries that they are incorporated in.

So you think carnival corp needs to be delisted from our stock exchange and not allowed to issue corporate bonds? 

[flyguyjake]

No publicly traded company should ever get a tax payer bailout or grant. Loans at current market rates, sure. Many of our largest corporations pay ZERO in taxes. That should also be a requirement to qualify for a loan, the company must actually "pay" taxes. I'm sick and tired of bailing out corporations who just buy back their own stock and give executive raises.

 

Why haven't we passed a federal $15 min wage? Haven't "essential" workers proved themselves yet? Its disgusting how we crap on our most needed workers.

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, lenquixote66 said:

Not from the US

Their headquarters is in the usa, surprise?

 

I know of a lot of foreign stocks, many from Israel, so those too need to be delisted from stock exchange and not allowed to issue bonds?

 

Stocks are one thing I know about. Sounds like a lot dont posting about these carnival bonds sold.

[lenquixote66]

3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Their headquarters is in the usa, surprise?

 

I know of a lot of foreign stocks, many from Israel, so those too need to be delisted from stock exchange and not allowed to issue bonds?

 

Stocks are one thing I know about. Sounds like a lot dont posting about these carnival bonds sold.

I did not post anything about stocks or taxes.I think you responded to the wrong person.

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, lenquixote66 said:

I did not post anything about stocks or taxes.I think you responded to the wrong person.

You said not from the US.

 

The article is about carnival corporate bonds getting bought by the fed. Calling it a bailout.

[The Scurvy Pirate]

9 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Many of our largest corporations pay ZERO in taxes. That should also be a requirement to qualify for a loan, the company must actually "pay" taxes.

 

 

Generally speaking, corporations do not pay "taxes" on their "profit" because that "profit" is passed to the shareholders through stock dividends.  The individual shareholders would then pay the "taxes" on those dividends.  The government doesn't tax the same "profit" twice (but give them time I am sure).  Corporations do pay a lot of taxes on the employer portion of income tax withholdings for FICA/FUTA, etc., taxes on real property, personal property, etc.

[lenquixote66]

15 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

You said not from the US.

 

The article is about carnival corporate bonds getting bought by the fed. Calling it a bailout.

I replied to the initial post asking if the cruise industry should get a bailout and I responded NO.

Cruising is a luxury,not a necessity.

[firefly333]

For those who didnt read the article OP posted ...the article was in response I'm sure to the reporter who questioned the fed chairman... here is the last paragraph from the article ..

 

But after the Federal Reserve announced plans to buy “unlimited” bonds to free up capital for lenders to invest in companies crumbling under corporate debt, Carnival swooped in to take advantage of the unprecedented move by issuing a combination of bonds and equity that would have previously lacked buyers.

[soremekun]

28 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

So you think carnival corp needs to be delisted from our stock exchange and not allowed to issue corporate bonds? 

No, they should not be delisted.  Neither should Toyota and other companies that aren't US companies but employ large numbers of US citizens and still contribute to taxes.  I do believe the US citizens who work for those companies deserve whatever assistance is available.

 

But companies that intentionally incorporate in foreign countries to escape as much tax as possible should rely on those countries for assistance when needed.  

 

Answer me this: What prevents Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian from incorporating in the US?  They would be allowed to if they wanted to.  If it was for financial benefit, they took a gamble.

 

Should a wealthy foreigner who spends a lot of money in Vegas receive a stimulus check?

 

I don't consider the bond transaction a bailout.

[ECCruise]

No.  Absolutely not.

And love the ratio of no to yes (and remember that this is a site for cruise aficionados) 

And no, even if you only believe the CLIA, the cruise lines do not bring gobs of money to the US.  Way more goes TO them than comes in benefits FROM them.

The small business environment in the US is getting hammered, especially the private (NOT CHAIN) restaurants in this country who employ probably a hundred times or more than the cruise industry.  And those are largely full time jobs, many with benefits, not some part-time retiree working as a check-in clerk in Miami.

Not a farthing for any foreign cruise line until the US small business community is made whole.

[Mapleleafforever]

Anyone who lives in Florida - YES!!!!

Anyone who lives elsewhere - NOT A CHANCE!!!!

 

 

[grandgeezer]

Absolutely not. They had choices and they picked Liberia for all the reasons stated earlier. It's like not buying cruise insurance, it's a good savings until you need it, then when you meed it it's not there, too bad. Cruise lines, "Too bad". Cruise lines need the U.S. more than the U.S. needs them, they aren't going anywhere except maybe belly up. They wouldn't be the first company to go out of business, we'll survive, we always do.