WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO RESTART CRUISE SHIPS???

[npcl]

1 hour ago, sheffield said:

It doesn’t matter how many tests you do prior to sailing, or on board, if you don’t have a plan in place as to what you will do if someone becomes sick with the virus. I have read nothing from any cruise line that they are implementing what the CDC required of them.

The cruise lines always say that they are doing what authorities are requiring them to do.  Does not mean that they will do it well, that they might do short cuts if they feel that they can get away with it, try pushing back on the requirements, hoping that the agency will relax its posture.

 

After all what else are they going to say.

 

Will believe it when we actually see what they implement.  I do say see because if they operate as they have in the past what they are doing will be pretty well hidden, except what they are doing for PR purposes.  The look at what we are doing to make you feel good even if they really don't accomplish anything.

[cruise kitty]

10 minutes ago, npcl said:

Prepare for wave two, worst than the first in many parts of the country.

 

Unfortunately I think you're right.   We're doubling down on our hunkering down strategy in the next 3 weeks,  June 1st was always our projected "coming out" date for some very limited shopping & maybe some take out orders...  haircuts I think will be waiting until July depending on what happens.  

[yorky]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
 

So looking to slowly open up again, I fear the death rate will rise, big business putting pressure on in my view with the go to work if not possible to work from home. 

[ECCruise]

My concern is that if you think what happens prior to this situation on cruise lines with staff:

Chair hogs run rampant and staff are afraid to confront

Pax purposely pass hand cleaning stations and staff do not contront

Pax cut lines right in front of staff and they say nothing.

 

Why?  Because, as many have told me, they are scared to death that a passenger will either complain to GR or nail them in a comment card/survey.  And management crushes the staff when that happens.  Why?  The cruise lines are so afraid of "angering" a passenger, whether unrealistic or a total idiot or not.  

 

Just by seeing the fringe losing it over Costco (BTW, a private company) requiring masks to be worn will give you a preview what will happen on cruise ships.  "You are infringing on my FREEDOM!"  "The Surgeon General once didn't wear a mask and you CAN'T MAKE ME WEAR ONE!"  "I want to sit where I want to sit.  I am NOT moving."

 

All you have to do is look around the States this last couple of weeks and you'll get a good preview of the future of cruising with parameters in place.

[npcl]

10 minutes ago, cruise kitty said:

 

Unfortunately I think you're right.   We're doubling down on our hunkering down strategy in the next 3 weeks,  June 1st was always our projected "coming out" date for some very limited shopping & maybe some take out orders...  haircuts I think will be waiting until July depending on what happens.  

We have been fortunate where we live.  In our country we have had 49 cases.  None for the last 2 weeks.  The governor put restrictions on early and people have pretty much followed them (most people wearing masks in stores, store staffs all wearing masks, spacing rules all marked out, etc). We have followed the spacing requirements, but still get out on trails in the local parks.

 

Fortunately for us the big events that would bring people into the area got canceled and as a result few people traveling from outside the area.

 

As long as people stay local to their area the outbreaks can be contained.  Get a lot of movement from one area to another and it gets much much more difficult.

[Pinboy]

27 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

My concern is that if you think what happens prior to this situation on cruise lines with staff:

Chair hogs run rampant and staff are afraid to confront

Pax purposely pass hand cleaning stations and staff do not contront

Pax cut lines right in front of staff and they say nothing.

 

Why?  Because, as many have told me, they are scared to death that a passenger will either complain to GR or nail them in a comment card/survey.  And management crushes the staff when that happens.  Why?  The cruise lines are so afraid of "angering" a passenger, whether unrealistic or a total idiot or not.  

 

Just by seeing the fringe losing it over Costco (BTW, a private company) requiring masks to be worn will give you a preview what will happen on cruise ships.  "You are infringing on my FREEDOM!"  "The Surgeon General once didn't wear a mask and you CAN'T MAKE ME WEAR ONE!"  "I want to sit where I want to sit.  I am NOT moving."

 

All you have to do is look around the States this last couple of weeks and you'll get a good preview of the future of cruising with parameters in place.

Very good post -- Seems like we have been on the same cruises. 

 

[phoenix_dream]

2 hours ago, ECCruise said:

I think we will have a lot of information available in the next month, not on cruise lines, but on the states that are opening now.  Either things will not spike or Darwin will rise from the grave.  Or something in between (also not a positive).

No matter how many suggestions are out there for social distancing, wearing masks in public places and the like, this was a TJ Maxx store in Arkansas, just yesterday.  No reason why, even with new procedures from the cruise lines, that the Atrium or Oceanview Cafe wouldn't look just like this.

OMG there are no words!!

[begood2me]

40 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

My concern is that if you think what happens prior to this situation on cruise lines with staff:

Chair hogs run rampant and staff are afraid to confront

Pax purposely pass hand cleaning stations and staff do not contront

Pax cut lines right in front of staff and they say nothing.

 

Why?  Because, as many have told me, they are scared to death that a passenger will either complain to GR or nail them in a comment card/survey.  And management crushes the staff when that happens.  Why?  The cruise lines are so afraid of "angering" a passenger, whether unrealistic or a total idiot or not.  

 

Just by seeing the fringe losing it over Costco (BTW, a private company) requiring masks to be worn will give you a preview what will happen on cruise ships.  "You are infringing on my FREEDOM!"  "The Surgeon General once didn't wear a mask and you CAN'T MAKE ME WEAR ONE!"  "I want to sit where I want to sit.  I am NOT moving."

 

All you have to do is look around the States this last couple of weeks and you'll get a good preview of the future of cruising with parameters in place.

This is absolutely correct.  The selfish nature of people will only get enhanced when they are asked to do something they don't want to do. There are many selfish, entitled people in the world and they will be out in droves on Cruise Ships when they start sailing. Just look at how hard it is to get people to move back in an elevator.  I love cruising but I have little hope that people are going to be considerate enough to care about what happens to others as much or more than they care about their own desires, that I can't see cruises working in the short term.  I hope I'm wrong.

[yorky]

3 minutes ago, begood2me said:

This is absolutely correct.  The selfish nature of people will only get enhanced when they are asked to do something they don't want to do. There are many selfish, entitled people in the world and they will be out in droves on Cruise Ships when they start sailing. Just look at how hard it is to get people to move back in an elevator.  I love cruising but I have little hope that people are going to be considerate enough to care about what happens to others as much or more than they care about their own desires, that I can't see cruises working in the short term.  I hope I'm wrong.

My take on this is you must follow the rules of your government,  people are not following the rules. Of course when cruise ships are sailing again that will only happen when they are given the go ahead by the relevant authorities, that is a very different matter and of course people then have the right to board these ships. 

[bouhunter]

2 hours ago, ECCruise said:

I think we will have a lot of information available in the next month, not on cruise lines, but on the states that are opening now.  Either things will not spike or Darwin will rise from the grave.  Or something in between (also not a positive).

No matter how many suggestions are out there for social distancing, wearing masks in public places and the like, this was a TJ Maxx store in Arkansas, just yesterday.  No reason why, even with new procedures from the cruise lines, that the Atrium or Oceanview Cafe wouldn't look just like this.

The more of that the better.  We'll never reach the hallowed herd immunity until it gets spread around, and that won't happen if everyone sits home.

[hcat]

2 hours ago, ECCruise said:

I think we will have a lot of information available in the next month, not on cruise lines, but on the states that are opening now.  Either things will not spike or Darwin will rise from the grave.  Or something in between (also not a positive).

No matter how many suggestions are out there for social distancing, wearing masks in public places and the like, this was a TJ Maxx store in Arkansas, just yesterday.  No reason why, even with new procedures from the cruise lines, that the Atrium or Oceanview Cafe wouldn't look just like this.

 

Very scary and sad.. 

  Huge crowd bunched together, few masks, and some folks that look like they may be in  high risk  categories. Wow...

 

Cruise ships will hopefully  have better control and fewer crowds.

[cirpi]

7 hours ago, oceangoer2 said:

I'm all for sailing in a non-disease environment..but...that is impossible.  Someone could walk on board feeling perfectly healthy and check virus free and become ill next day.  There's no perfect world at sea or otherwise.  I know the ship is considered an incubator, but even if you don't sail, walk through the park and touch anything that is contaminated or breathe in another's cough when either of you isn't wearing a mask, you may contract the virus.  My thoughts are to wait this out (moved sailing 1 1/2 years away), practice the medical science advice (not just any advice) and continue to live life as I have in the past following the new recommendations which are sure to come.  There was no surety I wouldn't get any of the modern day diseases then either.

After after a Reflection TA last May, we spent two days in Dublin, then flew to Italy to visit friends near Asti. I felt fine when I arrived, but within a couple hours, I spiked a 103.8 fever and for the next 72 hours I was in the hands of the village doctor and parish priest with double pneumonia. A temperature check at the Dublin airport would  have been useless because I did not have fever then.

[LMaxwell]

Cruise ships are going to look exactly like that store.  Yikes 

[kwokpot]

1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

My concern is that if you think what happens prior to this situation on cruise lines with staff:

Chair hogs run rampant and staff are afraid to confront

Pax purposely pass hand cleaning stations and staff do not contront

Pax cut lines right in front of staff and they say nothing.

 

Why?  Because, as many have told me, they are scared to death that a passenger will either complain to GR or nail them in a comment card/survey.  And management crushes the staff when that happens.  Why?  The cruise lines are so afraid of "angering" a passenger, whether unrealistic or a total idiot or not.  

 

Just by seeing the fringe losing it over Costco (BTW, a private company) requiring masks to be worn will give you a preview what will happen on cruise ships.  "You are infringing on my FREEDOM!"  "The Surgeon General once didn't wear a mask and you CAN'T MAKE ME WEAR ONE!"  "I want to sit where I want to sit.  I am NOT moving."

 

All you have to do is look around the States this last couple of weeks and you'll get a good preview of the future of cruising with parameters in place.

You make excellent points that few around here on CC has brought up.

[ECCruise]

26 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

The more of that the better.  We'll never reach the hallowed herd immunity until it gets spread around, and that won't happen if everyone sits home.

Yep.   Herd immunity works great.   Well, except for the 2-3% that may die getting there (6.5-10 million Americans).  Or, in the very best estimates available (and widely disputed) less than 1% fatality rate means only around 3 million dead Americans.

We're staying home until things get more clearly focused.  Likely won't be that long.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

This has been a very good thread so far.  
 

We will need a machine that will process 1,000 tests in 15 minutes or less.

We will need crews to be quarantined before boarding the ship.

We will need a way to isolate and remove an infected pax quickly for any disease.

We will need island cooperation for hospitalization.
We will need pax to wear masks and social distance when going through the boarding and testing process.  This applies to ships and planes.

We will need airlines to do the same.
We will need less crowded cruise ships.  
We will need crews to monitor and control more closely removing offending pax.
We will need islands to cooperate with cruise lines.  
 

Anyone care to add or elaborate??

[CGTNORMANDIE]

6 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Yep.   Herd immunity works great.   Well, except for the 2-3% that may die getting there (6.5-10 million Americans).  Or, in the very best estimates available (and widely disputed) less than 1% fatality rate means only around 3 million dead Americans.

We're staying home until things get more clearly focused.  Likely won't be that long.

If we are to get our economy up and running then we will have to accept the possibility of infection.  Elderly and medically vulnerable will have to continue to shelter if they are so inclined.  If we want to cruise we will also have to accept the possibility of infection as long as systems have been put in place that will prevent a recurrence of the past months.  

[npcl]

35 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

The more of that the better.  We'll never reach the hallowed herd immunity until it gets spread around, and that won't happen if everyone sits home.

Good thought except there is no information about how long, if any period, protection from Covid-19 lasts once someone has it.

 

So yes lets get everybody infected, make sure it is deeply embedded in the population so we can go through it every year, just like the flu.

 

In the meantime lets infect the 170 million in the US needed to get to the lower limit of herd immunity (50%), with even a 1% mortality rate (number found in dealing with small but fully tested populations) and kill off a million plus or so.  But that is fine because most of them are old.

[npcl]

1 minute ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

If we are to get our economy up and running then we will have to accept the possibility of infection.  Elderly and medically vulnerable will have to continue to shelter if they are so inclined.  If we want to cruise we will also have to accept the possibility of infection as long as systems have been put in place that will prevent a recurrence of the past months.  

Have you thrown yourself a COVID-19 party with a number of infected individuals to make sure that you are contributing to herd immunity?  Hope it last most than a couple of months.  Immunity with corona viruses tend to be short lived.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

Have you thrown yourself a COVID-19 party with a number of infected individuals to make sure that you are contributing to herd immunity?  Hope it last most than a couple of months.  Immunity with corona viruses tend to be short lived.

Really...and what scientific research have you seen??  

[yorky]

11 minutes ago, npcl said:

Have you thrown yourself a COVID-19 party with a number of infected individuals to make sure that you are contributing to herd immunity?  Hope it last most than a couple of months.  Immunity with corona viruses tend to be short lived.

I guess that’s a bit of a wind up given no one has a clue regarding immunity.

[hcat]

Celebrity must be optimistic ( maybe?)

 

Just saw an ad on TV.....they have not been on much lately!

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, hcat said:

Celebrity must be optimistic ( maybe?)

 

Just saw an ad on TV.....they have not been on much lately!

Or it is a previously committed buy.

Otherwise quit spending money on marketing and give me my dough back! 🙂 

[Fouremco]

26 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

This has been a very good thread so far.  
 

We will need a machine that will process 1,000 tests in 15 minutes or less.

We will need crews to be quarantined before boarding the ship.

We will need a way to isolate and remove an infected pax quickly for any disease.

We will need island cooperation for hospitalization.
We will need pax to wear masks and social distance when going through the boarding and testing process.  This applies to ships and planes.

We will need airlines to do the same.
We will need less crowded cruise ships.  
We will need crews to monitor and control more closely removing offending pax.
We will need islands to cooperate with cruise lines.  
 

Anyone care to add or elaborate??

A great oversimplification of many of the points raised and discussed in this thread. 

[npcl]

29 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Really...and what scientific research have you seen??  

Actually quite a bit.  Chat with a few of my former co-workers that are still pretty active in the field.

 

As far as Corona viruses as a class you have a fair amount of research 

 

for example 

 

The time course of the immune response to experimental coronavirus infection of man

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2170159

 

Thereafter antibody titres slowly declined. Although concentrations were still slightly raised 1 year later, this did not always prevent reinfection when volunteers were then challenged with the homologous virus.

 

 

 

 

As far as Covid-19 there is, of course, limited research.  Some studies are showing that most of those with serious symptoms of COVID-19 do develop lGc antibodies which have the potential to confer immunity.  Studies are lacking for those that have mild symptoms, or those that are asymptomatic. So no clear idea on the full range of infections yet.  Then there is the issue about how long the antibodies last.  As the article referenced above the past experience with Corona viruses as a class tend to last only about a year. It is also unclear if the antibodies do actually provide immunity.  Only time will tell.  time and lots of research.  Easier to do with common cold varients where you can actually infect volunteers, not likely with COVID-19.

 

Then you have the entire issue if as the virus spreads to more and more if it mutates sufficiently such that the immunity for one strain is not relevent to another.  RNA viruses such as Corona tend to mutate.  One of the ways to keep the number of mutations down is to keep the number of new infections down.

Edited May 10, 2020 by npcl