Think twice about a chargeback...

[bluesea321]

1 hour ago, oceanlovinmama said:

Cruiselines have been doing the best they can.  They didn’t realize that they would be shut down for so long and the amount of refunds requested.  Most of their employees are working from home and because of the levels of security that need to be in place to deal with credit cards, most cruise lines have a skeleton crew.  Now with the country opening back up that will change.  BUT when you work with an agent and do a chargeback, the cruise line can come back to the agent for that payment and any commission that was given to that agent, that was protected because the cruise line cancelled, Will now be recalled.  We work on commission only, and that money comes AFTER you travel.  We have had no income for the past two months and probably won’t for the rest of the year, now we have to give Our commission back AND possibly be on the hook for thousands of dollars we don’t have.  Please think about your agent!

 

You have posted the same message all over Cruise Critic, not nice.

[cherylandtk]

11 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

....under normal cancellation terms, the cruise fare is 100% non-refundable after final payment date. 

Just a minor correction...which I know you know...but penalties start at final payment, but don’t reach 100% until 14 days before sailing (25+ days and World cruise excepted, in North American markets😉)

 

I only mention it because plenty of people on these threads cancelled after final, but before full penalties kicked in, and should calculate their refund/FCC amounts accordingly.

[ceilidh1]

1 minute ago, cherylandtk said:

Just a minor correction...which I know you know...but penalties start at final payment, but don’t reach 100% until 14 days before sailing (25+ days and World cruise excepted, in North American markets😉)

 

I only mention it because plenty of people on these threads cancelled after final, but before full penalties kicked in, and should calculate their refund/FCC amounts accordingly.

Sorry, yes...penalties for the customer start at final payment and are incremental based on sailing date. Commission for the TA is protected from final payment (I blame COVID brain...)

[ceilidh1]

Another way I am looking at this (as an agent) is that if I continue to tell my clients to be patient and advise them against filing a chargeback and they continue to wait and pass the time when they COULD have disputed the charge, where does that leave me or them in the event the cruiseline never pays up? For sure, they will never book with me again.

 

It is every agent's duty to explain all the options and present all the facts. I absolutely tell my clients that cruiselines are dealing with a situation they could not have foreseen, It goes without saying that things won't get done in a "normal" timeframe. I think everyone understands that, but patience and understanding can only go so far if it is all one sided.

 

Princess has done nothing to help themselves in this situation and the inconsistencies, the "quiet" changing of timelines, and the lack of transparency has done nothing to inspire trust in me - so why should I expect my clients to trust them? I have clients that were told 7-10 days. Then 30 days. Then 60 days. How much longer should I keep telling them to be patient? You only need to look at my signature to know that I am a HUGE Princess fan, but in this situation they have failed completely.

[voljeep]

 @ceilidh1 posting from Vancouver - do you as a TA have any info that you can reasonably release about when that specific

port may reopen to cruise ships ?

[ceilidh1]

2 minutes ago, voljeep said:

 @ceilidh1 posting from Vancouver - do you as a TA have any info that you can reasonably release about when that specific

port may reopen to cruise ships ?

Nothing that is 100% but our health minister pretty much said not this year! We have the lowest death rate per capita in North America and they are not about to jeapordise that, Last I heard, they MAY allow ships in for refuelling/supplies but would not allow passengers off. Unless, of course, we get a vaccine soon... 

[Roberto256]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

Have you considered far more individuals fly and stay in hotels and many of these vendors are processing refunds in days and weeks (not months). These industries were also greatly affected. Probably more so than the cruise lines.

 

Back in like February or early March, the big US hotel chains announced that all reservations could be cancelled, 

even if they were fully prepaid, and sold as non-cancellable.

 

I had such a reservation, canceled it, and was charged anyway.

 

I called the hotel directly, gave my name and the arrival date.

The next day I had a credit pre-note posted to my credit card account,

and a few days later the the actual credit posted.

 

 

 

[Roberto256]

3 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

 I have other suppliers that are saying from the beginning, 60 days from your date of travel...not cancel date, date of travel. 

 

They can say anything they want.  All that matters is the credit card agreement, and any modifications made to it by state law.

 

[hobbyfarmer2]

3 hours ago, voljeep said:

let me guess - your 'clients' pay you , and then you pay Princess, correct ?

 

so, any chargebacks would go against your bank account, then it's up to you to get "your" money back from Princess ???

Not sure about that but I could be wrong.  I think the credit card charge names Princess on the statement, not the TA.  If true, the TA is passing the cc number along to Princess so they would not be inn the middle.

[HUNKY]

6 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

that money comes AFTER you travel

 

So if I do a credit card dispute for a cancelled cruise, a TA would NOT have received a commission yet anyway!

[framer]

I've been in the shoes of owning a business when, ba-bam, you hit a brick wall.  CCL has had to borrow 5-6billion and pay 11-12% on a bond issue I heard.  They are bleeding cash.  I'll take their offer to put toward a future cruise.  I hope they are able to keep things together, they like most businesses are not at fault.  I worry that cruising might not be the same.

 

framer

[suzyed]

7 hours ago, oceanlovinmama said:

But in their defense they had no idea the number of refunds they would be dealing with, and not all reps can do refunds from home, but that’s another story 😊  They didn’t realize the world would be brought to their knees with this virus.  I have other suppliers that are saying from the beginning, 60 days from your date of travel...not cancel date, date of travel.  While I sympathize with people wanting their money, I just feel we need to cut them some slack as they are hurting like the rest of us.

And I was just told yesterday it is NOT the date I picked my “option”, but when our cruise FINISHED, 30 days after we started!

we were on the Coral.

Edited May 17, 2020 by suzyed

[ceilidh1]

1 minute ago, suzyed said:

And I was just told yesterday it is NOT the date I picked my “option”, but when oour cruise FINISHED, 30 days after we started!

Agree - speak to 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. That is the most frustrating aspect for me - the lack of consistency and transparency. Princess, themselves, put it in writing that the timeline starts from the day they receive your choice of option 1 or 2. Yet, speaking to reps, I have been told it is from: Date of sailing / date cruise ends / TODAY.....right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing! Any way I look at it, I am past the originally quoted 7-10 days/30 days/60 days. I feel I have been more than reasonable and beyond patient. 

[BLK03GT]

Just so we're clear, you are asking people to forgo getting the money back so you can retain your ~ 10%?  While I empathize with your situation, I dare say that's more than you are doing for your clients. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by BLK03GT

[harkinmr]

8 hours ago, Coral said:

If you are an agent, you should advise your client to do what is in THEIR best interest. Not your best interest.

 

You seem to be looking out for yourself only.

Amen!!

[framer]

repost deleted

Edited May 17, 2020 by framer

[julig22]

4 hours ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

Not sure about that but I could be wrong.  I think the credit card charge names Princess on the statement, not the TA.  If true, the TA is passing the cc number along to Princess so they would not be inn the middle.

I think it depends on the TA.  I was once told that the TA has the option of a "pass-through" charge, where they give the cruise line the CC information and then get their commission in a check or bank transfer from the cruiseline.  The other option is for the TA to charge the full amount and forward the cruise fare, less commission, to the cruiseline.  So if doing a chargeback, it could be against either the cruiseline or the TA.  One would have to look at their cc statement to know how it was handled.

 

My guess is that most do the pass-through because that way they avoid the cc fees. Hopefully if the cruise line only received fare less commission they will refund the entire amount to the passenger, since supposedly commissions are being honored by the cruiselines.

[SteerageJack]

Okay, I’ve given it a second thought. Still keeping my dispute open. 

[ceilidh1]

2 hours ago, julig22 said:

I think it depends on the TA.  I was once told that the TA has the option of a "pass-through" charge, where they give the cruise line the CC information and then get their commission in a check or bank transfer from the cruiseline.  The other option is for the TA to charge the full amount and forward the cruise fare, less commission, to the cruiseline.  So if doing a chargeback, it could be against either the cruiseline or the TA.  One would have to look at their cc statement to know how it was handled.

 

My guess is that most do the pass-through because that way they avoid the cc fees. Hopefully if the cruise line only received fare less commission they will refund the entire amount to the passenger, since supposedly commissions are being honored by the cruiselines.

If you are a TA and book through the cruise line's booking engine (in this case Polar) then the payment is processed by Princess and appears that way on the credit card statement. Neither I, nor my agency, touches that money. Some TAs do it differently - they take the payment and then pass it on to the cruise line. I read on FB that someone had made payment early on a booking that was cancelled in pause 3. They expected to get double the amount they paid as an FCC - unfortunately, the agency they used had kept that payment and not passed it to the cruiseline so this customer only got double his deposit....

[SCOOTERNINJA]

Talk about self-serving, wow. 
 

The OP suggests that you all leave your money with Princess to provide them an opportunity to take a cut of the money for a cruise that never happened.   The OP suggests that you should ignore the fact that there is a possibility you don’t ever see any of your money should you fail to initiate a chargeback prior to any possible bankruptcy filings...just so the OP has a better chance to obtain a commission.  
 

Last time I checked the definition of an agent/fiduciary was someone who is supposed to act and advise in their customers’/principals’ interest...not their own.  

[caribill]

12 hours ago, PurpleUnicorns said:

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

I'm confused. Did Princess tell TAs they could keep their commissions on cruises refunded through whatever time-consuming process it claims to have in place? If so, where was it planning on getting the money for that? The full dollar amount paid by the customer would have been refunded by Princess, so the commission that the TA was allowed to keep would have to come directly out of Princess's pockets.

 

If not, then the TA was going to lose the commission either way. I guess losing it now is worse than losing it later, but I don't see what difference it makes in the grand scheme of things. However, on the customer's end, delaying a chargeback could be the difference between getting a refund and getting nothing if Princess files for bankruptcy.

 

a) Princess said they would pay commissions for cruises that were paid in full and the sailings cancelled by Princess.

b) Princess said when any FCCs generated by the cancellations are used for a future cruise, once the cruise ius taken, commissions will be paid. In effect, TAs are being rewarded some of the time twice by the same money paid by the client. (Of course if the FCCs are used with a different travel agent, then the original TA does not get any commission on the FCC $$ being used.)

 

Of course for cruises that were not paid in full, the TAs will not receive any commission. But they will receive commissions when any FCCs (if that option was chosen by the passengers) are used in the future.

 

 

[caribill]

I do not suggest that Princess is doing a great job of processing refunds/FCCs. They are not.

 

But the way refunds are processed at Princess has never been quick in most cases.

 

I think that is because much or the actual refund processing has to be done manually by the financial department which probably does not have a large staff to do this. Straightforward refunds such as refundable OBC at the end of a cruise have always taken weeks. (One other cruise line had my refundable OBC posted to my credit card the same day the cruise ended, not a check weeks later. They obviously have a different work process.)

 

I think the current refund process, with different rules and options for Pause 1, Pause 2 and Pause 3 are first being processed by an unknown (to us) number of people and then passed on to the financial department for the final payment authorization.

 

Maybe someone who works at Princess can post here how much of what "I think" is correct and how much is not.

 

We have refunds due us from NYC Broadway shows that were cancelled.The shows from one major ticketing agency came within a couple of days.The other major ticketing agency said that refunds would come in "as soon as 30 days" which means it could take much longer. At least one refund from that other ticketing agency has not arrived in six weeks so far. Different  work processes, different times to get a refund.

 

I am not happy with the time it takes the funds for my cancelled Princess cruise to come through and I am not happy about the slow refund time from the Btoadway show ticketing agency.

 

I do not think that either Princess or the show ticketing agency are trying to cheat me or purposely slowing down the refund process. I just think they have inefficient work processes for this and, unlike some other companies, are not currently equipped to handle the number of refunds that must be processed.

 

I am not defending the slowness, just recognizing why it probably exists.

[Hawaiiorbust2021]

As a first time cruiser, Who was due to leave on his first cruise on March 13 before princess cruise ships pulled the plug on the whole operation on March 12, I read all the posts here and my heart sinks.

 

Naturally, I was devastated like all of you and I almost felt like a family member and died the moment I got the news that I was not going on my cruise. I planned and saved and paid almost $10,000 for a 15 day Hawaii cruise for A family of four which took me over three years... It was supposed to be a make up honeymoon for our fifth anniversary because our wedding costs way too much for us to be able to afford a honeymoon at a time. All that planning, saving, working, dreaming... so much more went into my first cruise vacation than just money. I am by no means wealthy or even financially secure. I live paycheck to paycheck. Married with two kids, both of us have Full-time jobs. Me and my family probably went through and lost as much if not more than anyone here.

With all that said, I can’t believe people are treating their refund for their cruise like a bank account that won’t give them any money. $10,000 just to sail for 15 days and spend a single day each on four Hawaiian islands as well as a crummy last day in a crappy Mexican town...Seemed like money down the toilet just for a good time in the first place.
 

I read all of the plans that got canceled and all of the expectations you now have for your money and I ask myself...” I wonder if any of these people thought about their savings for emergency situations before they went and put their money into a cruise?” ...

...Sounds like the answer in most cases is that people broke the bank to go on vacation expecting money to be free-flowing. If princess cruises goes bankrupt, The fault will lie with people who spent their life savings on a cruise and now want it back to survive. I have never actually been on a cruise before but I know that when I throw my time, energy and money into something... follow through until the end is crucial. It makes no sense to not support princess cruises through this troubled time.
 

Like everyone else, I too have not received a refund. I did elect to leave my money with princess cruises and decided to rebook my cruise for next year. They offered a pretty sweet deal in cruise credit and despite the setback of The deposit required to be paid by cash or credit (more money out of my pocket), I decided to leave my money with the company and take my chances. I will not pay the deposit on the new cruise booking until they refund some of the money they claim they have to refund. In the meantime, they have been gracious about extending the deposit due date.
 

I was also told at first 30 days before a refund could be expected, only to be told after that had expired they would take up to 60 days. That deadline is almost up. I will most likely call and check the status if they have much of any as they have not really had much information before now. If nothing changes, I will request an extension on the deposit and sit back and wait longer.

 

If they file bankruptcy and go out of business, I will have lost a great deal of money, but I will not have sunk my life savings and my families future on a vacation...That’s just outright stupidity. Like having an emergency kit with nothing in it... Jumping out of a plane without a parachute... If you have kids like me, you just don’t take chances like that. I fully intended on never seeing that $10,000 again. I genuinely hope to get what I paid for but The way I see it, vacations are a gamble. A lot like going to a casino, you risk Certain amount of money in hopes of getting a exciting payout. Sometimes the money you wagered was well worth the risk. Other Times you walk away broke and upset. There are even times where you lose your money long before you ever even get to the casino, this might be one of those times. In any case you don’t go to Las Vegas with your rent money... So maybe you shouldn’t expect to feed your family on a credit card refund. Just saying!

 

I will hold onto the hope that I will one day be able to enjoy the paid vacation I have been planning for more than five years now. My confidence, sympathies, hopes and prayers are all with princess cruises as well as my money...Maybe we can all start hoping for the best otherwise we can all expect the worst. Either way, I planned my life to survive like only the Strong can... Cruise or no cruise, refund or bankruptcy... Life will go on for me.

[SargassoPirate]

I would think twice about NOT filing a dispute with the credit card company.  That's part of the service they provide.  As my agent, they can deal with the cruise line with more clout than I can ever muster.  

 

I wonder how many of the Princess cheerleaders have any skin in the game and are waiting patiently for a hoped-for refund?  I'm down over $9,000 and my patience is gone. Luckily, the clock with my credit card company is still ticking away.

[Roberto256]

9 hours ago, BLK03GT said:

Just so we're clear, you are asking people to forgo getting the money back so you can retain your ~ 10%?  While I empathize with your situation, I dare say that's more than you are doing for your clients. 

 

If a client has lost their job, and really needs the refund for essentials ... like food.

Should they wait?